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Old 22.07.2012, 10:49
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$21Trillion: hoard hidden from taxman by global elite

Social justice, anyone? Or are you a "professional enabler"?

An interesting article in The Observer (the world's oldest Sunday newspaper):

"
A global super-rich elite has exploited gaps in cross-border tax rules to hide an extraordinary £13 trillion ($21tn) of wealth offshore – as much as the American and Japanese GDPs put together – according to research commissioned by the campaign group Tax Justice Network.

The sheer size of the cash pile sitting out of reach of tax authorities is so great that it suggests standard measures of inequality radically underestimate the true gap between rich and poor... £6.3tn of assets is owned by only 92,000 people, or 0.001% of the world's population ...

"...protected by a highly paid, industrious bevy of professional enablers in the private banking, legal, accounting and investment industries taking advantage of the increasingly borderless, frictionless global economy."

More here from the sister paper The Guardian.

"...some experts believe the amount of assets being held offshore is so large that accounting for it fully would radically alter the balance of financial power between countries..."

Here's an intersting graphic showing from which countries the money is hemorrhaging.
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Old 22.07.2012, 11:04
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Re: $21Trillion: hoard hidden from taxman by global elite

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Social justice, anyone? Or are you a "professional enabler"?

An interesting article in The Observer (the world's oldest Sunday newspaper):

"A global super-rich elite has exploited gaps in cross-border tax rules to hide an extraordinary £13 trillion ($21tn) of wealth offshore – as much as the American and Japanese GDPs put together – according to research commissioned by the campaign group Tax Justice Network.

The sheer size of the cash pile sitting out of reach of tax authorities is so great that it suggests standard measures of inequality radically underestimate the true gap between rich and poor... £6.3tn of assets is owned by only 92,000 people, or 0.001% of the world's population ...

"...protected by a highly paid, industrious bevy of professional enablers in the private banking, legal, accounting and investment industries taking advantage of the increasingly borderless, frictionless global economy."

More here from the sister paper The Guardian.

"...some experts believe the amount of assets being held offshore is so large that accounting for it fully would radically alter the balance of financial power between countries..."

Here's an intersting graphic showing from which countries the money is hemorrhaging.
Funny, Switzerland does not even figure on the "big" graphic
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Old 22.07.2012, 11:09
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Re: $21Trillion: hoard hidden from taxman by global elite

If governments were to cap the max tax per person in their life time to £20,000,000 / $30,000,000 this sort of thing would not happen.

Anybody however rich can come to live in most Swiss cantons and pay under 200,000 CHF a year in tax.

Sometimes the greed of governments just goes too far.
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Old 22.07.2012, 11:20
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Re: $21Trillion: hoard hidden from taxman by global elite

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Funny, Switzerland does not even figure on the "big" graphic
Switzy is shown as one of the tax havens on that graphic. Need to zoom in on the top left middle circle headed "In Europe".
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Old 22.07.2012, 12:12
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Re: $21Trillion: hoard hidden from taxman by global elite

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Switzy is shown as one of the tax havens on that graphic. Need to zoom in on the top left middle circle headed "In Europe".
I wrote "not on the big graphic"

Meaning Switzerland is not shown as a major player
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Old 22.07.2012, 12:13
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Re: $21Trillion: hoard hidden from taxman by global elite

The big graph is only developing countries. That's why.
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Old 22.07.2012, 12:13
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Re: $21Trillion: hoard hidden from taxman by global elite

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If governments were to cap the max tax per person in their life time to £20,000,000 / $30,000,000 this sort of thing would not happen.

Anybody however rich can come to live in most Swiss cantons and pay under 200,000 CHF a year in tax.

Sometimes the greed of governments just goes too far.
How hard would it be for me to get a certificate from Bonga Bonga land that I had paid my $30,000,000 & so would be tax free for the rest of my life
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Old 22.07.2012, 12:21
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Re: $21Trillion: hoard hidden from taxman by global elite

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I wrote "not on the big graphic"

Meaning Switzerland is not shown as a major player
Why should it when it's not one of the countries from which money is haemorrhaging!

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The big graph is only developing countries. That's why.
B.I.N.G.O !!!
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Old 22.07.2012, 12:23
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Re: $21Trillion: hoard hidden from taxman by global elite

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How hard would it be for me to get a certificate from Bonga Bonga land that I had paid my $30,000,000 & so would be tax free for the rest of my life
You would be tax free in Bonga Bonga land, good luck with that unless you want to live their for the rest of your life.
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Old 22.07.2012, 12:32
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Re: $21Trillion: hoard hidden from taxman by global elite

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Social justice, anyone? Or are you a "professional enabler"?


Here's an intersting graphic showing from which countries the money is hemorrhaging.
242 billion from... HUNGARY? Excuse me while I ROFL.
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Old 22.07.2012, 12:32
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Re: $21Trillion: hoard hidden from taxman by global elite

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Sometimes the greed of governments just goes too far.
So an individual hidding his money away from society avoiding his responsibility to pay taxes is a shinning light of generosity....right.

And the government is the greedy one...for wanting this money to build a society...
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Old 22.07.2012, 12:49
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Re: $21Trillion: hoard hidden from taxman by global elite

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Sometimes the greed of governments just goes too far.
That's a bit er, rich, considering the headline info. Society helped generate the money and deserves its share in return. The Austerity sweeping European countries is being felt by the people who 'enabled' mill owners to get rich. Excuse me Mr Burns, Sir, but there's trouble at'mill.

Switzerland maintains a position that tax is morally neutral. For such a Christian leaning country, that's mighty dodgy IMHO.

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242 billion from... HUNGARY? Excuse me while I ROFL.
Before you wet your pants, remember that figure is - as the graph states - "cumulative capital flight", in Hungarys case from the 1980s - 2010
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Old 22.07.2012, 13:02
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Re: $21Trillion: hoard hidden from taxman by global elite

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That's a bit er, rich, considering the headline info. Society helped generate the money and deserves its share in return. The Austerity sweeping European countries is being felt by the people who 'enabled' mill owners to get rich. Excuse me Mr Burns, Sir, but there's trouble at'mill.

Switzerland maintains a position that tax is morally neutral. For such a Christian leaning country, that's mighty dodgy IMHO.
Ahh yes, because being Christian automatically amounts to moral purity and financial responsibility. History is full of evidence of that, ain't it. And Switzerland has a great record for not helping with tax evasion, don't it. Ahem.

Either way, just as with Jimmy Carr, they are doing nothing illegal. "Morally wrong" (I love how that term gets bandied about) by exploiting loopholes, perhaps, but illegal... no.

Personally if I had significant wealth and lived in a high tax country then I would do my best to legally avoid it too... tax money is generally used badly and irresponsibly by governments that are themselves morally loose and corrupt, so why give them more than you have to? The utopia where the government is looking out for you, distributes it's wealth responsibly and cares for the individual, doesn't exist.
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Old 22.07.2012, 13:10
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Re: $21Trillion: hoard hidden from taxman by global elite

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So an individual hidding his money away from society avoiding his responsibility to pay taxes is a shinning light of generosity....right.

And the government is the greedy one...for wanting this money to build a society...
I qualified my statement by proposing a £20,000,000 / $ 30,000,000 lifetime limit per person, so that person has not really avoided his responsibility at all. Are you saying there is really any justification for paying more than $30,000,000 per person?
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Old 22.07.2012, 13:14
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Re: $21Trillion: hoard hidden from taxman by global elite

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...tax money is generally used badly and irresponsibly by governments that are themselves morally loose and corrupt, so why give them more than you have to?
That's alright then.

Ugly, but alright. What was it Thatcher said about Society..?
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Old 22.07.2012, 13:14
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Re: $21Trillion: hoard hidden from taxman by global elite

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That's a bit er, rich, considering the headline info. Society helped generate the money and deserves its share in return.
Again is the societies share REALLY worth more than $30,000,000 per person? It's due to the unlimited nature of taxation, that so much effort it put into avoiding paying any.
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Old 22.07.2012, 13:19
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Re: $21Trillion: hoard hidden from taxman by global elite

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Before you wet your pants, remember that figure is - as the graph states - "cumulative capital flight", in Hungarys case from the 1980s - 2010
Sure. Do you know what the average hungarian GDP is during that 20 year period?

I'll help you out - it's about 45 bln EUR per year. Which means, if the 242 bln figure is right that yearly tax evasion is 25% of GDP.

Again, excuse me while I ROFL.
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Old 22.07.2012, 13:25
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Re: $21Trillion: hoard hidden from taxman by global elite

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Again is the societies share REALLY worth more than $30,000,000 per person? It's due to the unlimited nature of taxation, that so much effort it put into avoiding paying any.
Where are you getting the figure from and does it matter the amount? Surely the principle that each pays a fair share is the route to genuine social justice? Without social justice, there'll be less chance of a peaceful society.

Companies like Vodaphone paying 1% UK tax baffle people; they make Billions but court the revenue bigwigs to make sweetheart deals... meanwhile social services suffer for lack of funding.

What's going on?
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Old 22.07.2012, 13:26
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Re: $21Trillion: hoard hidden from taxman by global elite

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That's alright then.

Ugly, but alright. What was it Thatcher said about Society..?
I don't know what she said as I don't personally respect her or regard her as someone especially significant except in the minds of some people who look back with rose-tinted specs and seem to think she was actually a great leader of the country, so please enlighten me.

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Companies like Vodaphone paying 1% UK tax baffle people; they make Billions but court the revenue bigwigs to make sweetheart deals... meanwhile social services suffer for lack of funding.

What's going on?
Bad government planning, it's been happening for a while now apparently.
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Old 22.07.2012, 13:27
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Re: $21Trillion: hoard hidden from taxman by global elite

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Sure. Do you know what the average hungarian GDP is during that 20 year period?

I'll help you out - it's about 45 bln EUR per year. Which means, if the 242 bln figure is right that yearly tax evasion is 25% of GDP.

Again, excuse me while I ROFL.
Perhaps the Bros over at the think tank which correlated the stats can help you out. I didn't write the report

But: what if they're right?
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