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View Poll Results: What is your opinion today on Gun Control Laws in the US?
It is an important part of what makes America - no change needed 19 31.15%
I always though it should be kept - but not sure after recent events 2 3.28%
I used to think it was OK - but I have changed my mind 1 1.64%
If something very bad happens - we should change the law 2 3.28%
I never thought it was appropriate and wish US was gun-free 37 60.66%
Voters: 61. You may not vote on this poll

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  #21  
Old 06.08.2012, 17:34
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Re: US Gun Control Laws

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"The right to arm bears .
Good book by the way...
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  #22  
Old 06.08.2012, 17:36
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Re: US Gun Control Laws

My views on this have been made blatantly clear on the other threads vis-à-vis the Denver slaying and the Sikh incident.

Unfortunately, whilst there are still many Americans believing that the USA is the "Land of the Free", yet in the same sentence categorically stating that they'd never vote for a "Nigger President", the hopes of the rest of the world seem rather futile with regards to full scale national gun control.

As someone else here stated a few weeks ago, the 3Gs - Gays, God and Guns are something that you don't debate in America, you have to live to learn with the bigotry and self-righteousness.
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  #23  
Old 06.08.2012, 17:37
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Re: US Gun Control Laws

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Why does everyone quote the second half of this amendment, while ignoring the first half?

The right to bear arms in order to secure the free state -- in other words, the right to defend the country -- is what was intended. The founding fathers lived in a time when firearms were single-shot, fairly inaccurate weapons which needed to be re-loaded manually. If there had been drunk rednecks with fully-automatic AK-47s back then, they probably would have written this amendment more carefully.
But wouldn't that basically reduce the amendment to meaning that nobody should attempt to prevent the army from existing, a pretty meaningless statement as it is difficult to imagine a scenario in which somebody would attempt that.
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  #24  
Old 06.08.2012, 17:40
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Re: US Gun Control Laws

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I understand that the whole spirit of the Second Amendment is that "the people" should be able to overthrow an unjust or illicit government, if needed, at gunpoint. This is an understandable thought, seeing the USA actually gained independence through an armed rebellion, and thus wishes to retain the ability to do that again should the need arise.

If you expand on that chain of thought, any attempt by the government to limit the ability to rebel, is at the same time a strengthening of the government's ability to do as it pleases and ultimately become unjust without having to fear consequences.

So to reformulate the above question "what would need to happen for you to permit the government more means of unchecked repression", I would say "liberty is more valuable than security".

Maybe in a broader sense, you could turn it into the government needing to earn the trust it is requiring people to give it so they turn in their guns, rather than asking for the people to muster that trust and believe the government will then live up to its side of the bargain, as in "turn over your guns now and we promise to one day when we run out of other things to do, stop trampling over your rights".

I believe that knee-jerk reactions to singular events should not shape policy. Think of the Reichstag fire.

I should add that I'm not form the US and I don't actually believe guns are the answer (at least not here and now). But the above response comes from putting myself into the US perspective and my interpretation of US freedoms, which I greatly respect.
Yes but isn't this contradicting with the ideas of democracy?

Also, looking at what is happening in Syria and happened in Libya, I think there will be always "somebody" providing the required guns to the rebels !! Even if the local government is fighting against its own people.
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  #25  
Old 06.08.2012, 17:41
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Re: US Gun Control Laws

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But wouldn't that basically reduce the amendment to meaning that nobody should attempt to prevent the army from existing, a pretty meaningless statement as it is difficult to imagine a scenario in which somebody would attempt that.
Today, yes. Back in the 1780s, there was an entirely different situation. Some of the founding fathers thought that the federal government should not have an army at all -- the states should be totally autonomous and each should defend itself.
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  #26  
Old 06.08.2012, 17:45
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Re: US Gun Control Laws

Here are some statistics http://www.benbest.com/lifeext/murder.html and when you are finish with studie this ,we talk about drunk drivers
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  #27  
Old 06.08.2012, 17:46
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Re: US Gun Control Laws

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Yes but isn't this contradicting with the ideas of democracy?

Also, looking at what is happening in Syria and happened in Libya, I think there will be always "somebody" providing the required guns to the rebels !! Even if the local government is fighting against its own people.
Indeed it is. But then as has often been said, the US is a republic before being a democracy. The Constitution and workings of Government were expressly designed to slow the path of change (which in itself is contrary to the spirit of democracy). The Founding Fathers justified their actions by calling on "inalienable rights" (ie, their own philosophical beliefs) rather than the "will of the people".
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  #28  
Old 06.08.2012, 17:59
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Re: US Gun Control Laws

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My views on this have been made blatantly clear on the other threads vis-à-vis the Denver slaying and the Sikh incident.

Unfortunately, whilst there are still many Americans believing that the USA is the "Land of the Free", yet in the same sentence categorically stating that they'd never vote for a "Nigger President", the hopes of the rest of the world seem rather futile with regards to full scale national gun control.

As someone else here stated a few weeks ago, the 3Gs - Gays, God and Guns are something that you don't debate in America, you have to live to learn with the bigotry and self-righteousness.
It is not the gun law which has to be changed , learnig how to use the brain is the awnser.Bevore its gets washed
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  #29  
Old 06.08.2012, 18:03
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Re: US Gun Control Laws

Gun control laws simply don't work and it's been proven time and time again. The real issue is what makes people do these things in the first place. It's always the same old whiney response to a massacre 'why don't they make guns more difficult to get' instead of attempting to tackle the social and psychological reasons of why nutters get to this stage of development. If the argument to this is 'there will always be nutters' then why bother winging about gun laws. Before somebody gets to mentioning the UK, here's one thing- we (brits) have the severest gun control in europe and yet we have massacres like Hungerford and Dunblane. Go figure.
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  #30  
Old 06.08.2012, 18:08
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Re: US Gun Control Laws

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Gun control laws simply don't work and it's been proven time and time again. The real issue is what makes people do these things in the first place. It's always the same old whiney response to a massacre 'why don't they make guns more difficult to get' instead of attempting to tackle the social and psychological reasons of why nutters get to this stage of development. If the argument to this is 'there will always be nutters' then why bother winging about gun laws. Before somebody gets to mentioning the UK, here's one thing- we (brits) have the severest gun control in europe and yet we have massacres like Hungerford and Dunblane. Go figure.

Erm, both of these were prior to the introduction of the strict gun control laws we have nowadays.
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  #31  
Old 06.08.2012, 18:11
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Re: US Gun Control Laws

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The pro-gun lobby always seem to trot out the same old addage that they would have got their hands on the weapons illegally if they hadn't been able to obtain them legally. My opinion on that is that all "illegal" weapons were "legally" possessed at some stage and made their way onto the black market at some time or another.
Indeed. And although it may take some time, cutting out the majority of legal sales, particularly of automatic weapons (for which there can be no realistic justification) will clearly, eventually, filter through to reduce the availability even for 'proper' crims.
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  #32  
Old 06.08.2012, 18:12
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Re: US Gun Control Laws

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Gun control laws simply don't work and it's been proven time and time again.
Has it? I'd be very interested in your proofs, as it's certainly not widely known to be the case.
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  #33  
Old 06.08.2012, 18:14
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Re: US Gun Control Laws

Guns compair to Booze http://www.alcoholalert.com/drunk-dr...tatistics.html
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  #34  
Old 06.08.2012, 18:15
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Re: US Gun Control Laws

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Has it? I'd be very interested in your proofs, as it's certainly not widely known to be the case.
I would be willing to bet that Norway's gun control laws are
much stricter than those of the US. Breveik( sp?) found a
way to knock off a lot of people.
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  #35  
Old 06.08.2012, 18:21
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Re: US Gun Control Laws

The debate is evident (although slightly different) in Canada, where with the rise of gun crimes, the demand for stricter gun laws also increased.

An introduction of a federal gun registry was attempted, but ended up being a failure as it was a huge expense to the government, and it was found that the majority of guns used in crimes were illegally aquired (through theft, smuggling,w what have you).

Of course the root cause solution would be to "tackle the social and psychological issues" as mentioned above, but this is much more challenging to follow through with. The bandaid solution is for stricter gun control, but this will also never be a full solution as nutters will always find a novel way to please their sick minds.

What it comes down it, is whether restrictions on the rights and freedoms of many mature, responsible citizens will make a significant impact on the poor decisions of a few crazies.
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  #36  
Old 06.08.2012, 18:24
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Re: US Gun Control Laws

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Gun control laws simply don't work and it's been proven time and time again. The real issue is what makes people do these things in the first place. It's always the same old whiney response to a massacre 'why don't they make guns more difficult to get' instead of attempting to tackle the social and psychological reasons of why nutters get to this stage of development. If the argument to this is 'there will always be nutters' then why bother winging about gun laws. Before somebody gets to mentioning the UK, here's one thing- we (brits) have the severest gun control in europe and yet we have massacres like Hungerford and Dunblane. Go figure.
Strange line of arguments. You say that the anti-gun party only approach one side of the problem (of homicides/ massacres) by calling for guns becoming less available but at the same time you argue that one should concentrate ONLY on the other side of the problem, psychological reasons of these lunatics.

Is addressing BOTH aspects (background + availability of guns) out of question??
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  #37  
Old 06.08.2012, 18:24
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Re: US Gun Control Laws

it's too late for the US, the number of guns already in circulation make it impossible for the gov to legiferate and change anything.
In the name of the free market, USA corp is killing its citizens with "sacred" american guns just like american food.
Guns per 100 population:
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  #38  
Old 06.08.2012, 18:31
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Re: US Gun Control Laws

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it's too late for the US, the number of guns already in circulation make it impossible for the gov to legiferate and change anything.
In the name of the free market, USA corp is killing its citizens with "sacred" american guns just like american food.
Guns per 100 population:
I believe, this graph shows only the guns under registration. Hence, actual numbers might be different;however, it does not chance the fact that the gun ownership is still a big problem.
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  #39  
Old 06.08.2012, 18:32
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Re: US Gun Control Laws

I am all for gun control laws. They make sure that there is a certain minimum standard met when it comes to gun owners. In other words: I am perfectly fine if a convicted criminal does not enjoy the freedom to buy guns after his release anymore. And I personally believe that my right of not getting shot at should count higher than the right to bear arms, so in doubt would I extend those laws all the way down to repeated DUI offenders - if you cannot stop doing stupid stuff when drunk should you not have a gun.

That said does gun control not at all solve the crime problems - and I find it highly questionable to blame the guns for the high crime rates. They are for sure one factor but fact is that Switzerland has low crime rates and the ones that raise it over proportion are the immigrants who do not have army guns... so what is the problem really?

I think it is a mix of many factors, but one in my eyes is the prison system - there are so significantly more men in jail in the US vs Europe that I would question cause and effect: Most European countries focus on resozialisation when it comes to convicts. In the US, the idea of a punishment is much stronger - that's why people get locked up much quicker and much longer (and why there is still a death penalty...). To cut a long story short: I believe that if I would own a gun tomorrow, I would not become a criminal. However, if I ended up in prison for some stupid minor offense for a couple of months - those months would change me quite a lot and chances are that I would be a more violent guy afterwards.

http://www.nationmaster.com/graph/cr...ers-per-capita
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  #40  
Old 06.08.2012, 18:32
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Re: US Gun Control Laws

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Has it? I'd be very interested in your proofs, as it's certainly not widely known to be the case.
here's some stats (perhaps a slightly biased website, but well supported)
http://gunowners.org/sk0802.htm

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The National Academy of Sciences reviewed dozens of studies and could not find a single gun regulation that clearly led to reduced violent crime or murder.
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