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View Poll Results: What is your opinion today on Gun Control Laws in the US?
It is an important part of what makes America - no change needed 19 31.15%
I always though it should be kept - but not sure after recent events 2 3.28%
I used to think it was OK - but I have changed my mind 1 1.64%
If something very bad happens - we should change the law 2 3.28%
I never thought it was appropriate and wish US was gun-free 37 60.66%
Voters: 61. You may not vote on this poll

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  #161  
Old 17.08.2012, 02:33
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Re: US Gun Control Laws

At the risk of throwing even more fuel on both sides of this fire, check out this link.

http://news.yahoo.com/blogs/lookout/...170426728.html

Pro gay rights guy buys a high capacity Sig Sauer 9mm and shoots a security guard in an anti gay, anti abortion Christian lobbying organization in Washington D.C. (tightest gun control laws in the country, pretty much no guns allowed). He had extra magazines and additional ammo with him...

This sounds like the start of a bad joke. I think that the only hot topic group that isn't involved in this is the spank or don't spank your kid contingent, although I'm sure the question of his childhood discipline could be brought into question.

At this point, I'm disgusted with humanity. good night.
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  #162  
Old 17.08.2012, 09:12
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Re: US Gun Control Laws

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Not so sure. This and this raise at least a few questions about the role of officially 'safe' psychiatric medications in the bizarre acts of deadly violence perpetrated by patients in recent history.
That is not really the point I was making and I am sure you know that. The earlier post said that most of the murders in the US are gang and drug offences related... nothing to do with psychiatric medication.

Always easy to find a google link to suit ones argument in this day and age.

"Your bizarre acts of deadly violence perpetrated by patients" just seems besides the point to me.... If I am feeling bizarre and deadly violent, I cannot amass some arsenel of guns and ammo here in Zurich and go on a rampage, because I do not have any way to access said guns.
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  #163  
Old 17.08.2012, 09:28
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Re: US Gun Control Laws

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A. The US republic and it's constitution was set up to defend against democracy, it is unique
B. The US (officially) even though it is, is not a kingdom or kingdom owned
C. What the fu*k are you talking about?

Last point, the guys with the food and biggest guns will rule, that is an undetermined factor yet to be decided, if there is a revolution all trust in any previous regime will not be trusted..
About point C, he was clearly talking about the prelude to World War II, where Hitler came to prominence by establishing the third reich.

I respect your opinion that you should be able to bear arms in your own country under your own constitution... you want the right to protect yourself against whatever threats. The problem is that this very thing increases the chance of a threat from your fellow countrymen when they go on insane sprees.

I would respect it more if there was a better litmus test to ensure that the wrong people do not gain access to weapons. Unfortunately, this is pretty much impossible.

Should all Americans have access to all medicines, in case they need to save themselves or their fellow countrymen from diseases? I guess not or? Because these medicines can be abused.

This ideal is somehow accepted by people, and yet the idea that mostly everyone (with the obvious exceptions) should be able to buy and own guns even though guns can be abused to, remains a complicated and divisive issue.

Saying that, if it was up to me, I would like to outlaw guns entirely except for law enforcement, and where it can be categorically proved that the user will use them for hunting. For the same reason I would outlaw all handguns, I do not see the need for those in hunting. I can see the difficulty in that this would encourage more break ins and so on, at least in the short term. But thats my view.... normal people shouldnt own deadly guns!
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  #164  
Old 17.08.2012, 09:42
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Re: US Gun Control Laws

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If I am feeling bizarre and deadly violent, I cannot amass some arsenel of guns and ammo here in Zurich and go on a rampage, because I do not have any way to access said guns.
Last time I checked was it dead (cough...) easy to get a gun license in Switzerland as long as you are on a C permit and don't happen to be from "certain" countries... I was interested in something for small caliber sport shooting, but the by far cheapest guns on the market are the abundant ex-army assault rifles. A 57 costs you some 300 CHF and is pretty deadly... I did not want one in my house.

Again: the difference in culture is way more than the access to guns. For Americans is it apparently a beloved tradition to carry guns and they are emotionally attached to them. And while Switzerland seems to have a number of suicides do the statistics show far less violent crimes with guns... Most Swiss men see it more as a national duty to have it lying around in the basement... and many are happy when they can get rid of it. I believe it is really in the Swiss mindset that the guns they have are only to defend the country and not to be used when robbing a bank. Ordnung muss sein.
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  #165  
Old 17.08.2012, 09:55
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Re: US Gun Control Laws

Guns don't shoot people the same as knives don't stab people, people do harm to other people…

The founding fathers of the US after the civil war wanted to insure tyranny from the likes of the British would never happen again, so they gave their citizens the right to bear arms…

Tyranny now is more likely to come from a domestic government, if only government paid law enforcement agents had guns don't you think it would be just a little bit tempting for a government or even a president with executive order powers to abuse that exclusivity?

Since 911 and the introduction of The Patriot Act and so many other liberty destroying policies the US has introduced, taking away the right to arm will only expedite the destruction of the republic and the constitution.

What is frightening is the way they are doing about it, circumnavigating national laws and using an international body, in doing this they have complete deniability…

Personally I think that the US and indeed the world as we know it is going to change dramatically in the next few years with a global regime change, by taking the guns off the people you are taking away any real chance of resistance if that regime is not friendly…

Many with the right to bare arms will only give up that right when they are prised out of their dead hands, I think I would be in that number!
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  #166  
Old 17.08.2012, 10:48
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Re: US Gun Control Laws

I understand that in a larger historical context you fear that you will need to protect yourself at some point from whoever that may be. I really can appreciate that point of yours.

I am pointing out that, alongside this then these amok killings are going to keep happening as well.

Presumably thats a price you think is worth paying.

I think gun control should be much more regulated, thats all. I see some pretty stupid people about with some pretty stupid opinions. I do not want them to own semi automatic weapons.

I just cannot see how "guns dont shoot themselves" is a good argument for widespread gun ownership. On the whole, you must surely see that access to guns makes such killing sprees much easier to accomplish than if access were impossible!
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  #167  
Old 17.08.2012, 10:53
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Re: US Gun Control Laws

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Guns don't shoot people the same as knives don't stab people, people do harm to other people…

The founding fathers of the US after the civil war wanted to insure tyranny from the likes of the British would never happen again, so they gave their citizens the right to bear arms…

Tyranny now is more likely to come from a domestic government, if only government paid law enforcement agents had guns don't you think it would be just a little bit tempting for a government or even a president with executive order powers to abuse that exclusivity?

Since 911 and the introduction of The Patriot Act and so many other liberty destroying policies the US has introduced, taking away the right to arm will only expedite the destruction of the republic and the constitution.

What is frightening is the way they are doing about it, circumnavigating national laws and using an international body, in doing this they have complete deniability…

Personally I think that the US and indeed the world as we know it is going to change dramatically in the next few years with a global regime change, by taking the guns off the people you are taking away any real chance of resistance if that regime is not friendly…

Many with the right to bare arms will only give up that right when they are prised out of their dead hands, I think I would be in that number!
the real purpose for the 2nd Amendment was to obviate the need for a standing army, not to permit the people to violently overthrow their government. and the destruction of individual rights in the US has not been done by force, the people have voted for it and thereby consented to it over the course of the last 150+ years.
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  #168  
Old 17.08.2012, 11:31
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Re: US Gun Control Laws

Violent culture trumps even lax gun laws
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  #169  
Old 17.08.2012, 11:32
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Re: US Gun Control Laws

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I would outlaw all handguns, I do not see the need for those in hunting.
Yet they have their use, such as putting down a wounded animal, or protecting oneself at close range from a bear (I knew someone who used to carry a .357 magnum while berry picking in the woods of VT for that reason).

Tom
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  #170  
Old 17.08.2012, 11:39
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Re: US Gun Control Laws

Some great debate on this thread, but I'm still not sure I fully understand the arguments...

http://www.nationmaster.com/graph/cr...-with-firearms

The US has the fourth highest number (total) of gun related murders per annum after Columbia, South Africa and Thailand (way to go, you peace loving Bhuddists!) and the 11th highest per capita rate (using old data) only behind two "developed" countries (Brazil and Mexico) and mainly central Amercian republics...

That's not good, right? We can all agree on that.

So if it isn't the 2nd amendment driving it, what is it that makes the US so high?
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  #171  
Old 17.08.2012, 11:46
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Re: US Gun Control Laws

Violence, obviously...Look at even how rabidly the population gets behind all the wars in the last decade or two?...I imagine homicide rates by gun have increased along side the involvement in wars...It's the modern US export, don't understand it or want to silence it, kill it...Going forward, I imagine citizens will soon kill one another with remote control drones
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  #172  
Old 17.08.2012, 11:48
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Re: US Gun Control Laws

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Some great debate on this thread, but I'm still not sure I fully understand the arguments...

http://www.nationmaster.com/graph/cr...-with-firearms

The US has the fourth highest number (total) of gun related murders per annum after Columbia, South Africa and Thailand (way to go, you peace loving Bhuddists!) and the 11th highest per capita rate (using old data) only behind two "developed" countries (Brazil and Mexico) and mainly central Amercian republics...

That's not good, right? We can all agree on that.

So if it isn't the 2nd amendment driving it, what is it that makes the US so high?
Not denying an potential influence of the 2nd amendment, but perhaps GDP or an economical indicator based data could be of insight as well. The US, having a fairly large economy, will also have analogously large illegal market: drugs, gangs, smuggling, whathaveyou, and many stats link gun murders to such black markets (vs. other forms of murder). On top of that, for murder, guns are very expensive in comparison to other common forms. A healthier economy may facilitate the convenience and effectiveness of using a gun for murder.

Not sure on these notes, but I think they're worth considering.
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  #173  
Old 17.08.2012, 11:51
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Re: US Gun Control Laws

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Not denying an potential influence of the 2nd amendment, but perhaps GDP or an economical indicator based data could be of insight as well. The US, having a fairly large economy, will also have analogously large illegal market: drugs, gangs, smuggling, whathaveyou, and many stats link gun murders to such black markets (vs. other forms of murder). On top of that, for murder, guns are very expensive in comparison to other common forms. A healthier economy may facilitate the convenience and effectiveness of using a gun for murder.

Not sure on these notes, but I think they're worth considering.
True true - but per capita being higher than South Africa and twice as high as Zimbabwe maybe negates that theory to some degree
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  #174  
Old 17.08.2012, 12:01
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Re: US Gun Control Laws

You only have to turn on a TV anywhere to see why there are so many shootings, death by bullet is cool, even cartoons glamourise the use of guns and quick killing…

Being brought up in a violent society will raise violent children which will perpetuate through the generations, you only have to look at sci-fi films to see that this is the expected way for the human race to progress, life getting cheaper and cheaper as we become more 'civilised' and technologically advanced…

To address the real problem we need to look at society as a whole, Switzerland per capita has an immense gun holding population but you don't get 'mother fu**ers' getting shot outside of Migros everyday because the population of Switzerland have a more refined culture and more respect for each other unlike certain parts of the US…

The most harm you can really come to here is to get 'twatted' in a forum
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Old 17.08.2012, 12:09
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Re: US Gun Control Laws

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Violence, obviously...Look at even how rabidly the population gets behind all the wars in the last decade or two?...I imagine homicide rates by gun have increased along side the involvement in wars...It's the modern US export, don't understand it or want to silence it, kill it...Going forward, I imagine citizens will soon kill one another with remote control drones
the # of murders in the US is about the same now as it was in 1976, and the US population has increased about 30%. in other words, on a per capita basis the murder rate has decreased significantly over the last 30-40 years (it is currently about half of what it was in the 60's, for example).
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Old 17.08.2012, 12:25
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Re: US Gun Control Laws

We will see and hear of a lot more gun related crime coming up to the time the UN rules on the matter, it's propaganda that's all, distributed by a government and big business bias media..
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  #177  
Old 17.08.2012, 12:31
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Re: US Gun Control Laws

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True true - but per capita being higher than South Africa and twice as high as Zimbabwe maybe negates that theory to some degree
Does that not support the theory?

Per billion US$ GDP, the US has about 0.6 murders per year, and South Africa and Zimbabwe have 87.8 and 77.6 respectively.
(quick estimated calculations--but obvious trend)
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  #178  
Old 17.08.2012, 23:38
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Re: US Gun Control Laws

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A. The US republic and it's constitution was set up to defend against democracy, it is unique
B. The US (officially) even though it is, is not a kingdom or kingdom owned
C. What the fu*k are you talking about?

Last point, the guys with the food and biggest guns will rule, that is an undetermined factor yet to be decided, if there is a revolution all trust in any previous regime will not be trusted..
A) the USA constitution is the one of a democratic republic. It was copied by Switzerland in 1848, by West Germany in 1949 and by Austria in 1955
B) Britain in 1776 was NOT yet democratic but only became a democracy gradually later on
C) the post 1918 "republic" in Germany got manipulated after 1933. Its real weakness of course was that it was a kingdom with a state president which even retained its name of German Empire. Consequently, when taking over as "Imperial President" (Reichs-Präsident), Mr Adolf Hitler renamed his function into "Leader of the German Empire" (Führer des Deutschen Reichs). I think that he, in case of success would have made himself Emperor (Kaiser Adolf I ) . Another finally terminal weakness was the point that the founders of the Republic of Weimar regarded their creation just as a temporary solution and not as "the real thing"
ANOTHER "republic" manipulated was the Republica de Chile after the assassination of President Allende and the rise to power of General Pinochet.
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  #179  
Old 18.08.2012, 00:53
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Re: US Gun Control Laws

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the # of murders in the US is about the same now as it was in 1976, and the US population has increased about 30%. in other words, on a per capita basis the murder rate has decreased significantly over the last 30-40 years (it is currently about half of what it was in the 60's, for example).
Right after the slogan "Make love not war "
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  #180  
Old 20.08.2012, 23:48
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Re: US Gun Control Laws

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(tightest gun control laws in the country, pretty much no guns allowed).
He bought the gun in Virginia. Its no good Washington having tight gun laws when people can easily go cross border.

Another tragic waste of life
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