Go Back   English Forum Switzerland > Off-Topic > Off-Topic > International affairs/politics
Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
  #2521  
Old 03.10.2017, 11:55
Banned
 
Join Date: Mar 2008
Location: Zürich
Posts: 1,762
Groaned at 499 Times in 305 Posts
Thanked 7,915 Times in 3,106 Posts
Loz1983 has a reputation beyond reputeLoz1983 has a reputation beyond reputeLoz1983 has a reputation beyond reputeLoz1983 has a reputation beyond reputeLoz1983 has a reputation beyond reputeLoz1983 has a reputation beyond repute
Re: A shooting just happened in ( *fill in the blank * )

Quote:
View Post
Sigh. Some people have too much time on their hands.

https://www.buzzfeed.com/ryanhatesth...7y#.jfG74kbkvx
And none of them appeared on here. Disappointed.

Number 4 was my personal favourite.

Reply With Quote
  #2522  
Old 03.10.2017, 12:22
marton's Avatar
Forum Legend
 
Join Date: May 2008
Location: Kt. Zürich
Posts: 8,583
Groaned at 249 Times in 215 Posts
Thanked 11,609 Times in 6,342 Posts
marton has a reputation beyond reputemarton has a reputation beyond reputemarton has a reputation beyond reputemarton has a reputation beyond reputemarton has a reputation beyond reputemarton has a reputation beyond repute
Re: A shooting just happened in ( *fill in the blank * )

Gun Control is not so simple as it appears.

Anti-gun activists did score a narrow victory last year in Nevada by passing Question 1, a resolution calling for background checks through a licensed gun dealer for all sales in the state, even private and online sales.

It is unclear who would carry out the checks.
According to the Las Vegas Review-Journal the FBI, which the new legislation said would carry out the checks, has declined to do so because they are not federally mandated.

Source

They could give it to the local police to do but then they risk that it turns into a rubber stamp exercise!
__________________
It is naive to assume my posts are my own work
Reply With Quote
  #2523  
Old 03.10.2017, 12:37
Forum Veteran
 
Join Date: Nov 2015
Location: Küsnacht, Switzerland
Posts: 2,111
Groaned at 61 Times in 57 Posts
Thanked 5,166 Times in 2,356 Posts
Blueangel has a reputation beyond reputeBlueangel has a reputation beyond reputeBlueangel has a reputation beyond reputeBlueangel has a reputation beyond reputeBlueangel has a reputation beyond reputeBlueangel has a reputation beyond repute
Re: A shooting just happened in ( *fill in the blank * )

Quote:
View Post
Wow, I never realized they put so much effort into security here (security on the roofs - was it police? Armed?).

I had my handbag checked at Musikfestwochen in Winterthur when entering the area. And thought it was weird
We were front and left of the stage and could see them walking along the right hand roof and the one furthest from the stage. I couldn't see who it was more than they had dark jackets with a pale writing across the back, similar to the Securitas or Polizei jackets I see in Zurich city centre.

I'm used to security at gigs and this was heightened security by any standards, but it still wasn't foolproof. What we've seen with Vegas, Manchester and Brussels airport, is attacks from the unsecured perimeter rather than the area past security checks. Letzigrund was the first time I've seen security extended (to a degree) to the perimeter area.
Reply With Quote
The following 2 users would like to thank Blueangel for this useful post:
  #2524  
Old 03.10.2017, 12:48
Banned
 
Join Date: Mar 2008
Location: Zürich
Posts: 1,762
Groaned at 499 Times in 305 Posts
Thanked 7,915 Times in 3,106 Posts
Loz1983 has a reputation beyond reputeLoz1983 has a reputation beyond reputeLoz1983 has a reputation beyond reputeLoz1983 has a reputation beyond reputeLoz1983 has a reputation beyond reputeLoz1983 has a reputation beyond repute
Re: A shooting just happened in ( *fill in the blank * )

Quote:
View Post
We were front and left of the stage and could see them walking along the right hand roof and the one furthest from the stage. I couldn't see who it was more than they had dark jackets with a pale writing across the back, similar to the Securitas or Polizei jackets I see in Zurich city centre.

I'm used to security at gigs and this was heightened security by any standards, but it still wasn't foolproof. What we've seen with Vegas, Manchester and Brussels airport, is attacks from the unsecured perimeter rather than the area past security checks. Letzigrund was the first time I've seen security extended (to a degree) to the perimeter area.
If you turn up to a concert with a gun and intend to shoot people then there can be all the security in the world, but unless they're armed, they're not going to stop you. See what happened at the Bataclan Theatre, which took place in France. Where automatic guns are also banned.

Last edited by Loz1983; 03.10.2017 at 15:02.
Reply With Quote
This user groans at Loz1983 for this post:
  #2525  
Old 03.10.2017, 12:54
Forum Veteran
 
Join Date: Nov 2015
Location: Küsnacht, Switzerland
Posts: 2,111
Groaned at 61 Times in 57 Posts
Thanked 5,166 Times in 2,356 Posts
Blueangel has a reputation beyond reputeBlueangel has a reputation beyond reputeBlueangel has a reputation beyond reputeBlueangel has a reputation beyond reputeBlueangel has a reputation beyond reputeBlueangel has a reputation beyond repute
Re: A shooting just happened in ( *fill in the blank * )

Quote:
View Post
Meanwhile in London, where guns are banned:

Gun crime in London increases by 42%
You're comparing 'gun crime' in the UK, a country where possessing a gun without a licence is a crime in itself.

http://www.bbc.com/news/world-us-canada-34996604

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_o...ted_death_rate

Australia has offered to help the US in gun control changes...

http://www.channelnewsasia.com/news/...reform-9274858
Reply With Quote
  #2526  
Old 03.10.2017, 12:58
JoeUK's Avatar
Forum Veteran
 
Join Date: Aug 2009
Location: Zurich
Posts: 537
Groaned at 22 Times in 20 Posts
Thanked 724 Times in 381 Posts
JoeUK has an excellent reputationJoeUK has an excellent reputationJoeUK has an excellent reputationJoeUK has an excellent reputation
Re: A shooting just happened in ( *fill in the blank * )

Quote:
View Post
If you turn up to a concert with a gun and intent to shoot people then there can be all the security in the world, but unless they're armed, they're not going to stop you. See what happened at the Bataclan Theatre, which took place in France. Where automatic guns are also banned.
And when you're looking down on a concert from a reasonable distance, the same works? I'd hate to contemplate the carnage that would have ensued following your 'logic'.
Reply With Quote
This user would like to thank JoeUK for this useful post:
  #2527  
Old 03.10.2017, 13:03
Banned
 
Join Date: Mar 2008
Location: Zürich
Posts: 1,762
Groaned at 499 Times in 305 Posts
Thanked 7,915 Times in 3,106 Posts
Loz1983 has a reputation beyond reputeLoz1983 has a reputation beyond reputeLoz1983 has a reputation beyond reputeLoz1983 has a reputation beyond reputeLoz1983 has a reputation beyond reputeLoz1983 has a reputation beyond repute
Re: A shooting just happened in ( *fill in the blank * )

Quote:
View Post
You're comparing 'gun crime' in the UK, a country where possessing a gun without a licence is a crime in itself.
Thus proving banning guns doesn't work.

And this link pretty much confirms there is no correlation between the number of guns in a country and the number deaths caused by guns.
Reply With Quote
  #2528  
Old 03.10.2017, 13:09
bigblue2's Avatar
Forum Legend
 
Join Date: Mar 2009
Location: Glarus
Posts: 6,842
Groaned at 334 Times in 273 Posts
Thanked 11,325 Times in 4,560 Posts
bigblue2 has a reputation beyond reputebigblue2 has a reputation beyond reputebigblue2 has a reputation beyond reputebigblue2 has a reputation beyond reputebigblue2 has a reputation beyond reputebigblue2 has a reputation beyond repute
Re: A shooting just happened in ( *fill in the blank * )

this guy, as with most mass shootings, was using LEGALLY bought weapons, so the very simple logic a simpleton like me uses is - if he couldn't have bought the guns he wouldn't have been able to shoot 500 (or so) people.

LV's gun laws are totally insane, even for home defense no one needs a bloody machine gun ffs
Reply With Quote
The following 6 users would like to thank bigblue2 for this useful post:
  #2529  
Old 03.10.2017, 13:13
Forum Veteran
 
Join Date: Nov 2015
Location: Küsnacht, Switzerland
Posts: 2,111
Groaned at 61 Times in 57 Posts
Thanked 5,166 Times in 2,356 Posts
Blueangel has a reputation beyond reputeBlueangel has a reputation beyond reputeBlueangel has a reputation beyond reputeBlueangel has a reputation beyond reputeBlueangel has a reputation beyond reputeBlueangel has a reputation beyond repute
Re: A shooting just happened in ( *fill in the blank * )

Quote:
View Post
Thus proving banning guns doesn't work.
Nevada's an open carry state, yet not one of those gun owners stopped an active shooter. Think about that.

Quote:
"We actually have members of our crew with CHL licenses, and legal firearms on the bus. They were useless. We couldn't touch them for fear police might think we were part of the massacre and shoot us…enough is enough…we need gun control RIGHT. NOW. My biggest regret is that I stubbornly didn't realize it until my brothers on the road and myself were threatened by it."
http://www.rollingstone.com/country/...-vegas-w506601
Reply With Quote
The following 5 users would like to thank Blueangel for this useful post:
  #2530  
Old 03.10.2017, 13:20
Carlos R's Avatar
Forum Legend
 
Join Date: Dec 2009
Location: Roundn'about Basel
Posts: 7,187
Groaned at 113 Times in 101 Posts
Thanked 9,824 Times in 4,138 Posts
Carlos R has a reputation beyond reputeCarlos R has a reputation beyond reputeCarlos R has a reputation beyond reputeCarlos R has a reputation beyond reputeCarlos R has a reputation beyond reputeCarlos R has a reputation beyond repute
Re: A shooting just happened in ( *fill in the blank * )

Quote:
View Post
Thus proving banning guns doesn't work.
Erm. You are citing a % increase for a country where a small absolute increase will be a big %age increase.

From your own page: .23 deaths pa/100k pop...

I would argue that you might want to talk about all gun crime resulting in injury, not just deaths. Yesterday's shooting emphasises this point, 58 fatalities and over 515 injuries (the last time I checked). In terms of fatalities this is worst in recent times, but only just. In terms of injured, it is off the scale worse.

Quote:
View Post
And this link pretty much confirms there is no correlation between the number of guns in a country and the number deaths caused by guns.
No it doesn't - correlation is a calculation. This gives the raw numbers but doesn't confirm what you say it does. At all.

Here is a peer-reviewed article for the US in particular, which at 11 was a lone "developed nation" in the top 20 (and will probably rise in the rankings) for gun-related deaths in your page, followed at 22 by Finland which is mostly suicide:

Quote:
Conclusions. We observed a robust correlation between higher levels of gun ownership and higher firearm homicide rates. Although we could not determine causation, we found that states with higher rates of gun ownership had disproportionately large numbers of deaths from firearm-related homicides.
Some interesting reading here too... https://www.vox.com/2017/6/5/1574040...-mass-shooting
__________________
Never let right or wrong get in the way of a good opinion
Reply With Quote
The following 3 users would like to thank Carlos R for this useful post:
  #2531  
Old 03.10.2017, 13:28
Sandgrounder's Avatar
Forum Legend
 
Join Date: Jul 2007
Location: ZH
Posts: 11,003
Groaned at 90 Times in 83 Posts
Thanked 18,588 Times in 7,123 Posts
Sandgrounder has a reputation beyond reputeSandgrounder has a reputation beyond reputeSandgrounder has a reputation beyond reputeSandgrounder has a reputation beyond reputeSandgrounder has a reputation beyond reputeSandgrounder has a reputation beyond repute
Re: A shooting just happened in ( *fill in the blank * )

If you want to lower your chances of being shot in the US, join the military and take relatively safe refuge in the theatre of the battlefield.
Reply With Quote
The following 8 users would like to thank Sandgrounder for this useful post:
  #2532  
Old 03.10.2017, 13:43
VFR on top's Avatar
Forum Veteran
 
Join Date: Jul 2014
Location: Basel
Posts: 903
Groaned at 28 Times in 18 Posts
Thanked 1,955 Times in 736 Posts
VFR on top has a reputation beyond reputeVFR on top has a reputation beyond reputeVFR on top has a reputation beyond reputeVFR on top has a reputation beyond reputeVFR on top has a reputation beyond repute
Re: A shooting just happened in ( *fill in the blank * )

Quote:
View Post
At that distance, you can't really aim anymore with an automatic - although the Sheriff said he had built some kind of gun pod to take a more accurate aim.

If he was really a sniper, he could have killed much more people with a sniper-rifle - and the smoke alarm in his room wouldn't have went off so fast, so he'd been able to do that for quite some time.

This could have been so much worse.

I know it's cynic, but I really hope there were some politicians in the crowd.

Having had gunshots from automatic rifles and ricochets zip around their ears, left and right, would probably make them better thinkers the next time this topic comes up for a vote.
https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/...=.27a88422acef

Your sister?
Reply With Quote
  #2533  
Old 03.10.2017, 13:59
Dougal's Breakfast's Avatar
Forum Legend
 
Join Date: Nov 2007
Location: Ostschweiz
Posts: 16,555
Groaned at 1,063 Times in 822 Posts
Thanked 44,086 Times in 13,632 Posts
Dougal's Breakfast has a reputation beyond reputeDougal's Breakfast has a reputation beyond reputeDougal's Breakfast has a reputation beyond reputeDougal's Breakfast has a reputation beyond reputeDougal's Breakfast has a reputation beyond reputeDougal's Breakfast has a reputation beyond repute
Re: A shooting just happened in ( *fill in the blank * )

Quote:
View Post
even for home defense no one needs a bloody machine gun ffs
I could have solved our mouse problem without even getting out of bed!
Reply With Quote
This user would like to thank Dougal's Breakfast for this useful post:
  #2534  
Old 03.10.2017, 14:06
Dougal's Breakfast's Avatar
Forum Legend
 
Join Date: Nov 2007
Location: Ostschweiz
Posts: 16,555
Groaned at 1,063 Times in 822 Posts
Thanked 44,086 Times in 13,632 Posts
Dougal's Breakfast has a reputation beyond reputeDougal's Breakfast has a reputation beyond reputeDougal's Breakfast has a reputation beyond reputeDougal's Breakfast has a reputation beyond reputeDougal's Breakfast has a reputation beyond reputeDougal's Breakfast has a reputation beyond repute
Re: A shooting just happened in ( *fill in the blank * )

OK, putting my "thinking like Bud from Montana" hat on for a moment: isn't it funny how the target for this particular attack happens to be exactly the same demographic that is probably quite fond of guns? I mean, I shouldn't imagine the crowd at a country and western music festival in Nevada is likely to consist mainly of wet coastal lefties, do you?

Bud from Montana is already beginning to wonder if this is a deliberate attempt by the Deep State to shake up the pro-second amendment crowd: "Look, even you can be shot at. No, nobody was able to defend himself because the bad man had an automatic weapon and was up in a hotel room half a mile away. And he owned them all legally! See? Even your guns can't save you. Why don't you hand them in?"

Bud is wondering if the guy in all the photographs was actually guilty of the crime at all: he seemed to live a good life, gambling, hunting, living in several houses. Funny how he was already dead by the time the police found him in his hotel room. What was in it for him?

Bud is going to go out now and buy a couple more guns and quite a lot more ammunition before they stop selling them at all.

/Bud from Montana
Reply With Quote
The following 6 users would like to thank Dougal's Breakfast for this useful post:
  #2535  
Old 03.10.2017, 14:45
Banned
 
Join Date: Mar 2008
Location: Zürich
Posts: 1,762
Groaned at 499 Times in 305 Posts
Thanked 7,915 Times in 3,106 Posts
Loz1983 has a reputation beyond reputeLoz1983 has a reputation beyond reputeLoz1983 has a reputation beyond reputeLoz1983 has a reputation beyond reputeLoz1983 has a reputation beyond reputeLoz1983 has a reputation beyond repute
Re: A shooting just happened in ( *fill in the blank * )

Quote:
View Post
Nevada's an open carry state, yet not one of those gun owners stopped an active shooter. Think about that.
Where have I said once said said that having more gun owners would increase the likelihood of preventing these attacks?

Quote:
View Post
Erm. You are citing a % increase for a country where a small absolute increase will be a big %age increase.

From your own page: .23 deaths pa/100k pop...

I would argue that you might want to talk about all gun crime resulting in injury, not just deaths. Yesterday's shooting emphasises this point, 58 fatalities and over 515 injuries (the last time I checked). In terms of fatalities this is worst in recent times, but only just. In terms of injured, it is off the scale worse.

No it doesn't - correlation is a calculation. This gives the raw numbers but doesn't confirm what you say it does. At all.
OK, I ran a quick correlation based on the data available, and only to show the relationship between levels of gun ownership and number of homicides caused by guns. I came out with a value +0.54, so a moderate correlation, however hardly earth-shattering proof.
Reply With Quote
  #2536  
Old 03.10.2017, 14:51
Banned
 
Join Date: Mar 2008
Location: Zürich
Posts: 1,762
Groaned at 499 Times in 305 Posts
Thanked 7,915 Times in 3,106 Posts
Loz1983 has a reputation beyond reputeLoz1983 has a reputation beyond reputeLoz1983 has a reputation beyond reputeLoz1983 has a reputation beyond reputeLoz1983 has a reputation beyond reputeLoz1983 has a reputation beyond repute
Re: A shooting just happened in ( *fill in the blank * )

Quote:
View Post
this guy, as with most mass shootings, was using LEGALLY bought weapons, so the very simple logic a simpleton like me uses is - if he couldn't have bought the guns he wouldn't have been able to shoot 500 (or so) people.
In parts of the former Soviet Union and Middle East you can legally buy weapons, yet you rarely hear of mass shootings taking place there.
Reply With Quote
  #2537  
Old 03.10.2017, 14:54
bigblue2's Avatar
Forum Legend
 
Join Date: Mar 2009
Location: Glarus
Posts: 6,842
Groaned at 334 Times in 273 Posts
Thanked 11,325 Times in 4,560 Posts
bigblue2 has a reputation beyond reputebigblue2 has a reputation beyond reputebigblue2 has a reputation beyond reputebigblue2 has a reputation beyond reputebigblue2 has a reputation beyond reputebigblue2 has a reputation beyond repute
Re: A shooting just happened in ( *fill in the blank * )

Quote:
View Post
In parts of the former Soviet Union and Middle East you can legally buy weapons, yet you rarely hear of mass shootings taking place there.
??? hardly shining examples of countries with a press free enough to report such things, and also totally irrelevant
Reply With Quote
The following 3 users would like to thank bigblue2 for this useful post:
  #2538  
Old 03.10.2017, 14:56
curley's Avatar
Forum Legend
 
Join Date: Oct 2006
Location: canton ZH
Posts: 5,572
Groaned at 62 Times in 57 Posts
Thanked 5,770 Times in 3,111 Posts
curley has a reputation beyond reputecurley has a reputation beyond reputecurley has a reputation beyond reputecurley has a reputation beyond reputecurley has a reputation beyond reputecurley has a reputation beyond repute
Re: A shooting just happened in ( *fill in the blank * )

Quote:
View Post
I could have solved our mouse problem without even getting out of bed!
Something tells me there would be a lot more holes in the walls (and the water pipes and the electric wiring) than there ever were mice

As to your friend Bob from Montana: Interesting thinking. Which I don't share. What does keep circling in my mind though is that "the man was found dead in the room" is all they say (who killed him? Or what exactly did he kill himself with? A machine gun? Seriously? Were his fingerprints really on the weapons?) while the brother says the guy did not own such kinds of weapons and did not show any signs he would ever thinks of taking such action.

I think there's more to this. Although I don't think Bob sussed it out.
Reply With Quote
This user would like to thank curley for this useful post:
  #2539  
Old 03.10.2017, 14:58
22 yards's Avatar
Only in moderation
 
Join Date: Jul 2009
Location: Basel-Land
Posts: 7,310
Groaned at 210 Times in 168 Posts
Thanked 12,975 Times in 5,331 Posts
22 yards has a reputation beyond repute22 yards has a reputation beyond repute22 yards has a reputation beyond repute22 yards has a reputation beyond repute22 yards has a reputation beyond repute22 yards has a reputation beyond repute
Re: A shooting just happened in ( *fill in the blank * )

Quote:
View Post
OK, putting my "thinking like Bud from Montana" hat on for a moment: isn't it funny how the target for this particular attack happens to be exactly the same demographic that is probably quite fond of guns? I mean, I shouldn't imagine the crowd at a country and western music festival in Nevada is likely to consist mainly of wet coastal lefties, do you?

Bud from Montana is already beginning to wonder if this is a deliberate attempt by the Deep State to shake up the pro-second amendment crowd: "Look, even you can be shot at. No, nobody was able to defend himself because the bad man had an automatic weapon and was up in a hotel room half a mile away. And he owned them all legally! See? Even your guns can't save you. Why don't you hand them in?"

Bud is wondering if the guy in all the photographs was actually guilty of the crime at all: he seemed to live a good life, gambling, hunting, living in several houses. Funny how he was already dead by the time the police found him in his hotel room. What was in it for him?

Bud is going to go out now and buy a couple more guns and quite a lot more ammunition before they stop selling them at all.

/Bud from Montana
Bud, are you sure it's the Deep State that orchestrated (that means orguhnized) the shootin'? Not Sam from Smith & Wesson, or one of them other gun-makers?
Reply With Quote
The following 2 users would like to thank 22 yards for this useful post:
  #2540  
Old 03.10.2017, 15:02
Banned
 
Join Date: Mar 2008
Location: Zürich
Posts: 1,762
Groaned at 499 Times in 305 Posts
Thanked 7,915 Times in 3,106 Posts
Loz1983 has a reputation beyond reputeLoz1983 has a reputation beyond reputeLoz1983 has a reputation beyond reputeLoz1983 has a reputation beyond reputeLoz1983 has a reputation beyond reputeLoz1983 has a reputation beyond repute
Re: A shooting just happened in ( *fill in the blank * )

Quote:
View Post
??? hardly shining examples of countries with a press free enough to report such things, and also totally irrelevant
It's not irrelevant, mass shootings happen more often in the US than in other countries. I don't believe the reason for this is limited to the availability of guns.
Reply With Quote
Reply

Tags
florida, gay, isis, killed, muslim students, shooting, usa




Currently Active Users Viewing This Thread: 2 (0 members and 2 guests)
 
Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off


Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
My boss is a.......(fill in the gap) goombie General off-topic 35 28.01.2011 15:55
Recreational Shooting in the Geneva canton MAWLER Sports / Fitness / Beauty / Wellness 9 31.08.2010 17:04
What just happened please i could not access the forum Sutter Forum support 44 25.05.2009 20:03
Do I need to fill in Tax forms for the US? Roe Finance/banking/taxation 14 18.06.2008 19:17
What's just happened to the Swiss Franc? Tim Finance/banking/taxation 7 08.05.2007 17:24


All times are GMT +2. The time now is 05:55.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.4
Copyright ©2000 - 2018, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
LinkBacks Enabled by vBSEO 3.1.0