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  #2621  
Old 04.10.2017, 12:18
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Re: A shooting just happened in ( *fill in the blank * )

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*To where the gun laws are more lenient yet rates of gun crime are less.

hmmm

so argue with the fact the uk banned semi auto weapons in 1996 and not had a mass killing with once since.

do you not think if the kids throwing acid and stabbing each other in london etc at the moment could buy automatic weapons as easily as oven cleaner and steak knives they would also be shooting the place up? of course they would.
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  #2622  
Old 04.10.2017, 12:39
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Re: A shooting just happened in ( *fill in the blank * )

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To start screening hotels at an entry will not do it either.
Screening guests and luggage going into hotels has been discussed in the industry for a very long time, particularly since the attack at the Taj, Mumbai, and it's on the agenda again...

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Hotels on the Strip have virtually no security for personal property, according to Chase. At major events, metal detectors and bag checkers are often used to prevent firearms from entering. Though casinos on the strip can entertain tens of thousands at any one time, no similar process exists for when people are entering the premises.
https://www.forbes.com/sites/bisnow/.../#4400423634cc

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Third, make the ownership of firearms subject to mandatory liability insurance.

"Sir has a gun safe, bravo. you get a 10% discount".
"Madam bought two silencers and a high capacity magazine, that's an extra 25%"
I like this. It's got legs.
Reminds me of the terms Dangerous Dogs Act. Compulsory microchipping so there's a permanent link between dog and owner. Third party insurance, a ban on export and restrictions to selling on.

If guns could only be bought from authorised distributors - even second hand sales, private sales banned, every gun linked and licenced to one owner, all ammo sales logged against the gun owner so that you can flag up stockpiling of ammo, etc...
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  #2623  
Old 04.10.2017, 12:43
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Re: A shooting just happened in ( *fill in the blank * )

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do you not think if the kids throwing acid and stabbing each other in london etc at the moment could buy automatic weapons as easily as oven cleaner and steak knives they would also be shooting the place up? of course they would.
Well they're shooting they place up regardless.
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  #2624  
Old 04.10.2017, 12:47
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Re: A shooting just happened in ( *fill in the blank * )

There was an interesting article in the New Yorker which pointed out that until the 80s during Reagan gun ownership was in decline and the NRA was basically a sporting club.

It was down to the culture of the Reagan years (particularly the White Victimhood culture that was fostered during that time) and also the 80s crime wave that the current situation came about.
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  #2625  
Old 04.10.2017, 12:50
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Re: A shooting just happened in ( *fill in the blank * )

"Gun crime offences" as well as "knife crime offences" aren't necessarily deaths, though are they?

Possession, selling as well as not having correct paperwork would all show up as offences and therefore one of the 2000-odd incidents reported.

It's massively lame to quote this kind of thing when trying to excuse the shitshow in the US of almost daily mass shootings (1,516 mass shootings in 1,735 days was a figure presented the other day).

Some toff with an expired weapons licence for his clay pigeon hobby in the UK capital thus contributing to "gun crime offences" is worlds apart from the incident in Las Vegas, and frankly an insult to the victims.
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  #2626  
Old 04.10.2017, 12:54
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Re: A shooting just happened in ( *fill in the blank * )

It's ironic how some Brits can have such strong opinions over US gun laws, when the whole legacy of US gun fanaticism and legal protection started as a reaction to those damned redcoats so long ago:


The American Revolution was against British gun control



This article touches on the real reason why some 'Mericans may feel like they need a 50 cal, just in case:


Government begins as a monopoly on violence

Last edited by pilatus1; 04.10.2017 at 14:30.
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  #2627  
Old 04.10.2017, 12:55
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Re: A shooting just happened in ( *fill in the blank * )

yes its a war zone down in lewisham
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  #2628  
Old 04.10.2017, 12:57
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Re: A shooting just happened in ( *fill in the blank * )

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Some toff with an expired weapons licence for his clay pigeon hobby in the UK capital thus contributing to "gun crime offences"
You really believe cases like this make up the majority of that list?
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  #2629  
Old 04.10.2017, 13:01
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Re: A shooting just happened in ( *fill in the blank * )

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You really believe cases like this make up the majority of that list?
the majority of that list is gang on gangs, using modified air weapons, bb guns etc, young stupid men, who, if the uk had US style gun laws, would have bought semi auto weapons from sainsburys and shot the place up, as it stands they have shitty modified 'toys' that aren't really very good.
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  #2630  
Old 04.10.2017, 13:01
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Re: A shooting just happened in ( *fill in the blank * )

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You really believe cases like this make up the majority of that list?
No, absolutely not.

You are, however, using the statistic "gun crime" interchangeably with numbers of people being shot to support your line of discussion on here that gun control in the US doesn't work.

It's like saying statistics for "motoring offences" always mean vehicles involved in fatal RTCs.
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  #2631  
Old 04.10.2017, 13:06
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Re: A shooting just happened in ( *fill in the blank * )

I see we're still debating gun control... Well there's an estimated 300 million guns in circulation in the USA. Let that sink in for a minute. That's probably about a minimum of 10 bullets for each one. So you're at 3 billion bullets in private hands, bare minimum. Gun fans I know of practice a lot, so they go through a lot of bullets. Now consider they have gun fairs, and they're very popular because "outside the gubment view". Every time the gun control debate surfaces, everyone goes out and buys a least a ton of bullets, and then some guns, just in case.

And then there's the black market on guns, and that's huge, especially in trade between states that have lax sale rules and those that have restrictive ones, and especially to cities that tend to local ordonnances against all kinds of ways of using a gun, including carry, etc. All the things Mrs Clinton wants, and more.

So I you blanket ban you'll push a ton of people into the black market. Sounds like Prohibition in the 1920s to me.

It's a cultural thing, and even using insurance probably would push people to underdeclare, or not declare, especially out in the countryside.

Debate it all you want, it's not going away. The people who were shocked by the 1960s and 70s riots, saw the crime rate in the 80s, and more riots in the 90s, aren't going to give up a gun.

And btw to someone who seems to think banning tiny minority things (if you catch them whilst they are still tiny minority things) doesn't work, you're wrong. Keep your antiban attitude out of this or stop making crap comparisons. Viva la burka/niqab ban!
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  #2632  
Old 04.10.2017, 13:08
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Re: A shooting just happened in ( *fill in the blank * )

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Chicago has some of the strictest gun laws in the Stat and still has 350 shooting victims every single month.

In Brazil, where buying and carrying guns is illegal all over the country, over 100 are killed by firearms every single day.

Seriously?


You think Chicago is a microcosm in the US, entirely uninfluenced by the gun laws of the federation or other states?


And you want to compare gun crime in Brazil to that of the US? because on every other aspect, those two countries are identical?


And you called me a dipshit?


Christ almighty.
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  #2633  
Old 04.10.2017, 13:11
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Re: A shooting just happened in ( *fill in the blank * )

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And then there's the black market on guns, and that's huge, especially in trade between states that have lax sale rules and those that have restrictive ones, and especially to cities that tend to local ordonnances against all kinds of ways of using a gun, including carry, etc. All the things Mrs Clinton wants, and more.

So I you blanket ban you'll push a ton of people into the black market. Sounds like Prohibition in the 1920s to me.


All guns start off as legal guns.


Gun manufacturers do not manufacture illegal guns. They are manufactured legally, and become illegal later.


If you control legal guns, you make it far more difficult to source illegal guns.


You squeeze the flow of guns from being 'legal' to being 'illegal'. that means, after a lag period, the number of 'illegal' guns drops as well.

How many more daft arguments do the gun lobby have?
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  #2634  
Old 04.10.2017, 13:15
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Re: A shooting just happened in ( *fill in the blank * )

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Screening guests and luggage going into hotels has been discussed in the industry for a very long time, particularly since the attack at the Taj, Mumbai, and it's on the agenda again...

https://www.forbes.com/sites/bisnow/.../#4400423634cc


I like this. It's got legs.
Reminds me of the terms Dangerous Dogs Act. Compulsory microchipping so there's a permanent link between dog and owner. Third party insurance, a ban on export and restrictions to selling on.

If guns could only be bought from authorised distributors - even second hand sales, private sales banned, every gun linked and licenced to one owner, all ammo sales logged against the gun owner so that you can flag up stockpiling of ammo, etc...
I assume firearms are banned in the Mandalay hotel although I checked their web site and I could not find any mention of firearms/guns/weapons?

It's been illegal to carry a toy gun on the Las Vegas Strip since 2012, when Clark County commissioners passed an ordinance banning “dangerous objects” from the Strip.

The ban, intended to make the sidewalks safer, prohibited flame throwers, blades over three-inches long and toy guns.
But what it didn’t prohibit was real guns. Nevada state law bars cities, towns and counties from passing their own gun laws.

It’s legal to bring guns to polling places, hotels, bars and casinos — even while consuming alcohol — unless expressly forbidden by the specific institution.
Guns are not allowed at schools, child care facilities and university campuses.

Source

Weird world!
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  #2635  
Old 04.10.2017, 13:17
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Re: A shooting just happened in ( *fill in the blank * )

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How many more daft arguments do the gun lobby have?
As many as it takes, based on previous iterations of all the same issues being debated here.
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  #2636  
Old 04.10.2017, 13:28
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Re: A shooting just happened in ( *fill in the blank * )

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I only know of one Swiss who has a private collection of rifles and they are decommissioned antique ones which would do more damage as a club than a firearm.
When I was apartment hunting early last year, I was shocked how many people had guns and ammo in their fallout shelters. The biggest collection belonged to a couple in their 80's who were moving into a retirement home. They had a large gun locker, a ceremonial pike, and dozens of bottles of red wine in their shelter.
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  #2637  
Old 04.10.2017, 13:41
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Re: A shooting just happened in ( *fill in the blank * )

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All guns start off as legal guns.


Gun manufacturers do not manufacture illegal guns. They are manufactured legally, and become illegal later.


If you control legal guns, you make it far more difficult to source illegal guns.


You squeeze the flow of guns from being 'legal' to being 'illegal'. that means, after a lag period, the number of 'illegal' guns drops as well.

How many more daft arguments do the gun lobby have?
Guns don't exactly have an expiry date on them, and if properly maintained keep going for dozens of years. I'm just telling you you're beyond the manufacturing, you're at a stage where you've got such a large number of guns in circulation that illegal supply can continue just on second hand guns no problem for decades and decades. And I'm not of the gun lobby thank you very much. I'm just an observer of all this and most of what I read ignores the elephant in the room of "everyone has one, just some have more than others".
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  #2638  
Old 04.10.2017, 13:47
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Re: A shooting just happened in ( *fill in the blank * )

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Guns don't exactly have an expiry date on them, and if properly maintained keep going for dozens of years. I'm just telling you you're beyond the manufacturing, you're at a stage where you've got such a large number of guns in circulation that illegal supply can continue just on second hand guns no problem for decades and decades. And I'm not of the gun lobby thank you very much. I'm just an observer of all this and most of what I read ignores the elephant in the room of "everyone has one, just some have more than others".


Yes, but proportionally very few guns are maintained to such a high standard, and fewer still illegal guns.


Perhaps it will take some time before the supply of illegal guns is affected, but that countdown (which i suspect is not decades and decades) can only start when the legal>illegal flow is tempered.
The longer you wait to do that, the longer the lag perid becomes.
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  #2639  
Old 04.10.2017, 13:55
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Re: A shooting just happened in ( *fill in the blank * )

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Yes, but proportionally very few guns are maintained to such a high standard, and fewer still illegal guns.

What does that mean? That old guns don't work? As a kid Ive shot some handguns from the 20's, shotguns and rifles from the 40's/50's. They weren't anything special, and worked just fine. I don't see how being legal/illegal would change the useful lifespan of the things.
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  #2640  
Old 04.10.2017, 14:00
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Re: A shooting just happened in ( *fill in the blank * )

Lol.

Lone Muslim nutter: "Allahu akbar!" BOOM!

Chorus: "Not all Muslims..."

Lone gun nut: "Yee-haw!" CHAKACHAKACHAKACHAKACHAKA...

Chorus: "Yes, all gun owners..."
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