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  #2781  
Old 05.10.2017, 18:32
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Re: A shooting just happened in ( *fill in the blank * )

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OK. I appreciate the feedback.

spelling and grammar errars aside , I'm proposing that most sensible, tax paying and law abiding US citizens who hear the more foolish gun control arguements (sic) being promoted on this forum (many the same as the ones in the US) only serve to stiffen their resolve. In my case, its a matter of heritage and lifestyle. For others, it may be something else.

To hear that old guns wither and die is just pure ignorance.
To hear owning a large number of guns makes me a loon is just pure arrogance.

If my post comes across as pompous, well, I'll own that.


To be honest, this is pretty much the type of fetishisation and worship of guns that led the US to have the gun issues it has today.

The fact that said american people only stiffen their resolve when confronted with valid gun control arguments, serves only to highlight their stubbornness in this regard. After Dunblane, people were not so stubborn, and even guns that were family heirlooms were handed in. Not because people are stupid, but because people in the UK understood that just because a weapon is a family heirloom, does not mean it should hold some sacred place in society.

As long as people are this stubborn, massacres like this one will keep happening.

Actually, no. Thats not true. They'll get worse. As gun manufacturers continue to find new and ingenious ways of circumventing the sliver of laws that do exist.


How long do you think it is before a way of circumventing the silencer ban is developed and sold?
At what point does the number of murdered people become too much?
10,000?

50,000?

100,000 perhaps?

The mind boggles.

Last edited by J2488; 05.10.2017 at 18:59.
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  #2782  
Old 05.10.2017, 18:33
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Re: A shooting just happened in ( *fill in the blank * )

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To hear that old guns wither and die is just pure ignorance.
To hear owning a large number of guns makes me a loon is just pure arrogance.
My mate probably spends 2 full days per month cleaning and maintaining his guns, he also isn't a loon, but he gets seriously concerned when someone who he does consider to have mental health issues, suddenly begins to amass an arsenal.

This is what we're actually dealing with.

Question for you: Are your guns insured? Are they catalogued and listed as belonging to you on any insurance or official documents? If not, would you see that prospect as an imposition?

It looks like we're going to have to accept that nothing would have changed the course of events in Vegas. A ban on bump loaders may have reduced the number of casualties. Restrictions on the same of semi-automatics may have reduced the number of casualties, but we have to remember the shooter also had explosives.

There must be an acceptable way that sales can be catalogued, that would flag up a sudden buying spree of weapons and ammo. But as Obama said, he could put a terror suspect on a no fly list, but he couldn't put them on a list that would prevent them buying weapons. That's got to be wrong. There's got to be a way to flag things up and prevent access.
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  #2783  
Old 05.10.2017, 18:59
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Re: A shooting just happened in ( *fill in the blank * )

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Youre the last surviving male of your family name, but have 2 sons? Pretty sure that means your sons are the last surviving males...


If you want to own the guns purely because they are heirlooms or because they have sentimental value, get them deactivated. A deactivated gun is still a family heirloom, still valuable, still sentimental, but stops being an instrument of death.


Also, if your heritage and family heirlooms are guns, and nothing more then guns, then your family needs better heirlooms. Might i suggest you invest in a Rolex watch (or any expensive timepiece, for that matter), and pass that on to your son one day, instead of more guns. Its far more convenient, and will probably mean more as an heirloom, since your som will have a use for it on a regular basis.
Let's say the rest of the branches on the family tree no longer bear fruit. I bear the sole responsibility of carrying the name forward. I'm 1/2 way there. Make more sense?

Perhaps this notion seems old fashioned and patriarchal to you? ARe you OK with this or should I change to better meet your expectations? Perhaps you could tell me how I should raise my children, what to wear and how I should think about Skinhead Nazi's, Muslims, abortion clinic bombers and LGBT too? Will you tell me who I may invite into my home?

When I was referring to arrogance, I was thinking of you.

Thank you for proving my point.
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  #2784  
Old 05.10.2017, 19:05
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Perhaps you could tell me how I should raise my children, what to wear and how I should think about Skinhead Nazi's, Muslims, abortion clinic bombers and LGBT too? Will you tell me who I may invite into my home?

I mean, Sure, if you like....


Raise your children to respect other people and to always do the right thing, even if they dont want to or it puts them at a disadvantage.


You should wear clothes that are comfortable, make you feel good, and which cover your (fully functioning - thanks for clarifying) genitals. outside of that, you can wear what you like. You might get odd looks from the more conservative people, but do your thing, and ignore them.


Skinheads/nazis: You shouldnt support them in any way, and should defend society against them.


Muslims: Live and let live. Leave them be, im pretty sure most of them will let you be.


Abortion Clinic Bombers: See Skinheads/Nazis.


LGBT: See Muslims.


Invite into your home anyone you feel safe inviting into your home. have a coffee with them. perhaps you'll make friends.
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  #2785  
Old 05.10.2017, 19:05
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Re: A shooting just happened in ( *fill in the blank * )

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"Guns and guitars" is the shop the LV shooter bought a load of his guns, you may also want to watch "bowling for columbine" where they visit a BANK that also sells guns - what could possibly go wrong?????
Always remember my first trip to the US.
I went into a supermarket in Phoenix Arizona (Smith Supermarket?) to buy some water.
They had a gun counter in the middle of the store and a man was there buying some sort of automatic pistol and the salesman was trying very hard to sell him some extra very large magazines. My first thought was why would you want those unless you were planning some sort of mass extinction
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  #2786  
Old 05.10.2017, 19:18
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Re: A shooting just happened in ( *fill in the blank * )

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My mate probably spends 2 full days per month cleaning and maintaining his guns, he also isn't a loon, but he gets seriously concerned when someone who he does consider to have mental health issues, suddenly begins to amass an arsenal.

This is what we're actually dealing with.

Question for you: Are your guns insured? Are they catalogued and listed as belonging to you on any insurance or official documents? If not, would you see that prospect as an imposition?

It looks like we're going to have to accept that nothing would have changed the course of events in Vegas. A ban on bump loaders may have reduced the number of casualties. Restrictions on the same of semi-automatics may have reduced the number of casualties, but we have to remember the shooter also had explosives.

There must be an acceptable way that sales can be catalogued, that would flag up a sudden buying spree of weapons and ammo. But as Obama said, he could put a terror suspect on a no fly list, but he couldn't put them on a list that would prevent them buying weapons. That's got to be wrong. There's got to be a way to flag things up and prevent access.
I'm OK with registration. I'm OK with licensing. My antique guns are insured. I've gone through multiple background checks for CCW permits with the FBI and state agencies.

Your last point is attractive, but what is the limit to raise suspicion and if so, then what? 5 guns a year, 10 guns? 1 gun? Its all about the details and for many, how it could be abused by the authorities.

...and yes - cleaning is a real drag.
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  #2787  
Old 05.10.2017, 19:32
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Re: A shooting just happened in ( *fill in the blank * )

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Let's say the rest of the branches on the family tree no longer bear fruit. I bear the sole responsibility of carrying the name forward. I'm 1/2 way there. Make more sense?

Perhaps this notion seems old fashioned and patriarchal to you? ARe you OK with this or should I change to better meet your expectations? Perhaps you could tell me how I should raise my children, what to wear and how I should think about Skinhead Nazi's, Muslims, abortion clinic bombers and LGBT too? Will you tell me who I may invite into my home?

When I was referring to arrogance, I was thinking of you.

Thank you for proving my point.
It always seemed to me that people having mouth full of tolerance slogans..to whatever diversity is out there and en vogue, are in fact the least tolerant in the way they prescribe this behavior they expect everybody to have. The least tolerance coming from those who are militantly deffending their particular idea of freedom. Without realizing how intolerant in fact the whole effect is, how many false assumptions they infuse in all this and how little space they leave for a down-to-earth debate without them jumping in dogma and prescription. Zero freedom, for anyone at the end. Except them - The Freedom and Tolerance Activists. Because they obviously grabbed that label at the right politically favorable times.

Let's call this phenomenon...uhmmmm...the anti-thesis of common sense.
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  #2788  
Old 05.10.2017, 19:37
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Re: A shooting just happened in ( *fill in the blank * )

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I'm OK with registration. I'm OK with licensing. My antique guns are insured. I've gone through multiple background checks for CCW permits with the FBI and state agencies.

Your last point is attractive, but what is the limit to raise suspicion and if so, then what? 5 guns a year, 10 guns? 1 gun? Its all about the details and for many, how it could be abused by the authorities.

...and yes - cleaning is a real drag.
I don't mess with cleaning...nor owning, I leave the maintenance to guys. I think chicks may be not into collecting, so much.
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  #2789  
Old 05.10.2017, 19:54
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Re: A shooting just happened in ( *fill in the blank * )

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Your last point is attractive, but what is the limit to raise suspicion and if so, then what? 5 guns a year, 10 guns? 1 gun? Its all about the details and for many, how it could be abused by the authorities.
That's a detail that would have to be hammered out by a whole bunch of legal minds and the NRA, FBI, etc... But, that information is already in the hands of advertisers and abused by them. Any serious gun collector will receive dozens of invitations and special offers per day.

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I don't mess with cleaning...nor owning, I leave the maintenance to guys. I think chicks may be not into collecting, so much.
This woman had to learn how to maintain and clean guns long before she was ever allowed to pull a trigger, but that was 45yrs ago and long forgotten now.
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  #2790  
Old 05.10.2017, 20:21
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Re: A shooting just happened in ( *fill in the blank * )

While I think Americans wanting to own so many guns is crazy and the death toll is not good, let's put it into a bit of perspective. More people die in car accidents than from guns - though it does seem to be a close race between the two.

http://fortune.com/2017/02/15/traffic-deadliest-year/

https://www.cdc.gov/nchs/fastats/injury.htm

Maybe we should be looking at banning cars as well.

And as for the courts and their interpretation of what consists a "well organised militia", well from what I can see they ain't in the US.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Militia

Army Reserve and National Guard are the only things that fall into that category for me.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United...s_Army_Reserve

They keep trying to throw it back at Congress to bring in legislation, but until a judge is brave enough to say the current guns laws don't meet the "well organised militia" criteria Congress won't get off its backside.
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  #2791  
Old 05.10.2017, 20:37
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While I think Americans wanting to own so many guns is crazy and the death toll is not good, let's put it into a bit of perspective. More people die in car accidents than from guns - though it does seem to be a close race between the two.

...

They keep trying to throw it back at Congress to bring in legislation, but until a judge is brave enough to say the current guns laws don't meet the "well organised militia" criteria Congress won't get off its backside.
And even then...

http://home.tiac.mindspring.com/~rickers/parade.htm
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  #2792  
Old 05.10.2017, 21:40
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Re: A shooting just happened in ( *fill in the blank * )

Um. Maybe even the NRA is getting worried that legislation may be brought in.

"US pro-gun group the NRA calls for "additional regulations" on rapid fire tools in wake of Las Vegas shootings."

http://www.bbc.com/news/world-us-canada-41519815

Trying to stave off any punitive action by Congress?
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Old 05.10.2017, 23:16
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Re: A shooting just happened in ( *fill in the blank * )

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It always seemed to me that people having mouth full of tolerance slogans..to whataver diversity is out there and en vogue, are in fact the least tolerant in the way they describe this behavior they expect everybody to have. The least tolerance coming from those who are militantly deffending their particular idea of freedom. Without realizing how intolerant in fact the whole effect is, how many false assumptions they infuse in all this and how little space they leave for a down-to-earth debate without them jumping in dogma and prescription. Zero freedom, for anyone at the end. Except them - The Freedom and Tolerance Activists. Because they obviously grabbed that label at the right politically favorable times.

Let's call this phenomenon...uhmmmm...the anti-thesis of common sense.
They're called Social Justice Warriors.
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  #2794  
Old 05.10.2017, 23:32
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Re: A shooting just happened in ( *fill in the blank * )

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They're called Social Justice Warriors.
No kiddin

I am all for justice. So important.
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  #2795  
Old 05.10.2017, 23:35
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Re: A shooting just happened in ( *fill in the blank * )

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They're called Social Justice Warriors.
So, at the risk of sounding like a "Social Justice Warrior" for simply asking a question; where is the middle ground when it comes to guns?

One extreme is to have no restrictions, no intervention, anyone from anywhere can have as many guns and ammo as they want, no questions asked. You can be a raging psychopath on a shelf full of meds but that doesn't matter.

The other extreme is a total ban for all those except people in law enforcement and the military. Maybe some guns kept at clubs for sport.

What do you see as acceptable? Where is the crowd-pleasing middle ground?

Clearly, with the sheer numbers of massacres in the US, the current system isn't working. So what should be done?
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  #2796  
Old 06.10.2017, 00:09
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Re: A shooting just happened in ( *fill in the blank * )

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While I think Americans wanting to own so many guns is crazy and the death toll is not good, let's put it into a bit of perspective. More people die in car accidents than from guns - though it does seem to be a close race between the two.

http://fortune.com/2017/02/15/traffic-deadliest-year/

https://www.cdc.gov/nchs/fastats/injury.htm

Maybe we should be looking at banning cars as well.
Many, perhaps most, Americans use a motor vehicle daily. The comparison isn't valid.
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Old 06.10.2017, 00:30
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Re: A shooting just happened in ( *fill in the blank * )

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To hear owning a large number of guns makes me a loon is just pure arrogance.
And as you've mentioned, what constitutes a large number of guns?

I don't own any guns myself, and at first glance at global gun ownership stats it looks like Americans must all be complete 'gun nuts'. 90 guns per 100 people!?

But then when I think about it, my father has a few rifles and a shotgun that have been gathering dust in the attic for the past 40 years. My uncle is an avid hunter, and has a number of (at least 5) guns in a locker, though he's been hunting strictly with crossbow for decades. So between the two families, we're likely just about average representatives of US gun ownership stats. There are no gun nuts, no rednecks*, no criminal or political motivation for gun ownership.

So the stats may present a false view of what gun ownership means for most Americans.

*Though I do proudly play the banjo, Sandgrounder,

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Old 06.10.2017, 01:00
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Re: A shooting just happened in ( *fill in the blank * )

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And as you've mentioned, what constitutes a large number of guns?

I don't own any guns myself, and at first glance at global gun ownership stats it looks like Americans must all be complete 'gun nuts'. 90 guns per 100 people!?

But then when I think about it, my father has a few rifles and a shotgun that have been gathering dust in the attic for the past 40 years. My uncle is an avid hunter, and has a number of (at least 5) guns in a locker, though he's been hunting strictly with crossbow for decades. So between the two families, we're likely just about average representatives of US gun ownership stats. There are no gun nuts, no rednecks*, no criminal or political motivation for gun ownership.

So the stats may present a false view of what gun ownership means for most Americans.

*Though I do proudly play the banjo, Sandgrounder,

Time to move to ukulele. And crossbow. (Although not sure how it will improve the stats)
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Old 06.10.2017, 01:03
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Re: A shooting just happened in ( *fill in the blank * )

Worrying developments...

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Investigators are looking into the possibility that Las Vegas gunman Stephen Paddock was planning other attacks, including a car bombing.
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It has now emerged that Paddock booked a room at the 21-storey Blackstone Hotel in Chicago, Illinois, overlooking the site of the Lollapalooza music festival....

...The weekend before the shooting, Paddock also rented an apartment in a 21-storey building in Las Vegas that overlooked the Life Is Beautiful festival, Clark County Sheriff Joseph Lombardo said.The event included performances by Chance the Rapper, Muse, Lorde and Blink-182.
http://news.sky.com/story/las-vegas-...ivals-11068280


Encouraging development...

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NRA calls for crackdown on gun modifications used by Las Vegas gunman
http://news.sky.com/story/nra-calls-...vegas-11068465
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Old 06.10.2017, 01:05
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Re: A shooting just happened in ( *fill in the blank * )

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And crossbow. (Although not sure how it will improve the stats)
Have you ever read Lionel Shriver's 'We Need To Talk About Kevin'?
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