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  #3121  
Old 19.02.2018, 16:29
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Re: A shooting just happened in ( *fill in the blank * )

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That graph is from Mother Jones which thinks there has only been a total of 7 mass shootings in the last 11 years!
Wrong:

"Mother Jones listed seven mass shootings, defined as indiscriminate rampages in public places resulting in four or more victims killed, in the U.S. for 2015."

2015, not the past 11 years!

BTW, 'Mother Jones' is a left-wing publication, so doubtful that they'd under-report.

Tom

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  #3122  
Old 19.02.2018, 16:40
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Re: A shooting just happened in ( *fill in the blank * )

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I'm saying the response to different types of attacks is rather striking.
In what way? I gather you think we feel less about it, because we try to argue against your point that when a Muslim kills people we should lump all Muslims into the terrorist bracket or is that because some as some people have noticed the mass shootings in the states are mostly perpetrated by a certain demographic? Regardless we are all horrified by these attacks whether perpetrated my a brown skinned religous fanatic or somebody who matches your own demographic profile.

Some people on the forum are even quite unmoved by any of these incidents, but just enjoy putting forth their own contrived narrow narrative to it all, which often involves blaming it on left liberal attitudes. Just saying.
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  #3123  
Old 19.02.2018, 16:49
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Re: A shooting just happened in ( *fill in the blank * )

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In what way? I gather you think we feel less about it, because we try to argue against your point that when a Muslim kills people we should lump all Muslims into the terrorist bracket or is that because some people have noticed the mass shootings in the states are mostly perpetrated by a certain demographic?
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Apparently there were many more non-white killers. While the numbers broadly follow the ratio of their skin color/ethnicity, white killers are underrepresented.

According to that it seems whites are underrepresented in mass shootings in relation to their percentage of the population.
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  #3124  
Old 19.02.2018, 17:18
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Re: A shooting just happened in ( *fill in the blank * )

18 shootings in school - does it matter if they are accidental or not?

There are enough tragic cases in the US where a young child accidentally shoots their parents or siblings - deaths or injury that would not have occurred if there had been no guns.

Do people really think that guns have a place in schools?

(Well obviously you do but you're a special case, I believe).
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  #3125  
Old 19.02.2018, 17:32
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Re: A shooting just happened in ( *fill in the blank * )

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18 shootings in school - does it matter if they are accidental or not?
Yes, especially if the school is closed and unoccupied.

So, in reality, it's 2, not 18.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/local...=.211659a933a8

Tom
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Old 19.02.2018, 17:34
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Re: A shooting just happened in ( *fill in the blank * )

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Yes, especially if the school is closed and unoccupied.

So, in reality, it's 2, not 18.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/local...=.211659a933a8

Tom
Still two too many, eih?
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  #3127  
Old 19.02.2018, 17:38
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Re: A shooting just happened in ( *fill in the blank * )

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BTW, 'Mother Jones' is a left-wing publication, so doubtful that they'd under-report.
And your Facebook link was to Allen West who whilst serving in the U.S. army:

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In 2003, West was charged and convicted in an incident that involved the beating and simulated execution of an Iraqi policeman.
He lost his seat in the U.S. House of representatives to a Democrat and now instead, writes for Fox news.

BTW, 'Allen West is a right-wing thug who works for Fox news, so doubtful that he would give any unbiased reporting.
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Old 19.02.2018, 17:41
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Re: A shooting just happened in ( *fill in the blank * )

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So, in reality, it's 2, not 18.
It's two "mass" shootings with many children killed.

Not seeing any empathy from you...
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  #3129  
Old 19.02.2018, 18:15
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Re: A shooting just happened in ( *fill in the blank * )

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It's two "mass" shootings with many children killed.

Not seeing any empathy from you...
I don't think Tom is lacking empathy in this case. It's a matter of keeping these shootings in perspective and not over-hyping for political or other purposes. Yes, two shootings is too many. But saying it's 18 when it's not anywhere near that doesn't help anyone either.
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  #3130  
Old 19.02.2018, 18:32
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Re: A shooting just happened in ( *fill in the blank * )

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Nonsense, the only year that was that high was 2017, which tied with Nice, all other years were far less
[..]
Tom
gunviolence.org lists 27 incidents for 2015 where four or more were killed with 155 killed in total.

Listed sorted descending by fatalities.

Incident Date, State, City Or County, Address, #Killed, #Injured
December 2, California, San Bernardino, 1365 South Waterman Avenue, 16, 19
October 1, Oregon, Roseburg, 1140 Umpqua College Rd, 10, 9
June 17, South Carolina, Charleston, 110 Calhoun Street, 9, 0
May 17, Texas, Waco, 4671 S Jack Kultgen Fwy, 9, 18
Aug 08, Texas, Houston, 2211 Falling Oaks, 8, 0
February 26, Missouri, Tyrone, 18279 Highway H, 8, 1
Sep 17, South Dakota, Geddes, 36705 379th Street, 6, 0
July 16, Tennessee, Chattanooga, 4051 Amnicola Highway, 6, 2
Nov 15, Texas, Tennessee Colony, 800 block of County Road 2217, 5, 0
Sep 10, Minnesota, Excelsior (Greenwood), Channel Drive, 5, 0
July 22, Georgia, Suwanee, 5500 block of Old Atlanta Road, 5, 0
June 7, Montana, Deer Lodge, Boulder Creek Road, 5, 0
May 12, Arizona, Tucson, 800 block of West Calle Medina Road, 5, 0
Apr 16, Arizona, Phoenix, 4300 block of East Anderson Drive, 5, 0
February 7, Georgia, Douglasville, 3640 Willow Tree Circle, 5, 2
Nov 23, Ohio, Columbus, 90 block of S. Terrace Avenue, 4, 1
Nov 13, Florida, Jacksonville, 1300 block of South Shirley Oaks Drive, 4, 1
Nov 02, South Carolina, Pendleton, 2217 Refuge Road, 4, 0
Aug 07, Vermont, Barre (Berlin), 3182 Airport Rd, 4, 0
July 15, South Carolina, Holly Hill, 7050 Old State Road, 4, 1
June 13, Ohio, Columbus, 1623 E. Hudson Street, 4, 1
May 3, Wisconsin, Menasha, Friendship Trail, 4, 1
March 24, Indiana, Indianapolis, 3100 block of North Harding Street, 4, 0
February 22, Texas, Killeen, 1706 Godman St., 4, 1
January 31, Georgia, Lagrange, 100 block of Woodstream Trail, 4, 0
January 24, New York, Arverne (Queens), 231-11 148th Avenue, 4, 1
January 9, California, San Francisco, Laguna and Page streets, 4, 0
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Old 19.02.2018, 18:34
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Re: A shooting just happened in ( *fill in the blank * )

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I don't think Tom is lacking empathy in this case. It's a matter of keeping these shootings in perspective and not over-hyping for political or other purposes. Yes, two shootings is too many. But saying it's 18 when it's not anywhere near that doesn't help anyone either.
Number of Americans killed on battlefields in all wars in history:

1,396,733

Killed by firearms in the US since 1968:

1,516,863

or number of shootings in schools:

shooting-just-happened-fill-blank-screen-shot-2018-02-19-17.30.01.png

I think we can all agree that there is something remarkably wrong with American gun legislation.
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  #3132  
Old 19.02.2018, 18:34
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Re: A shooting just happened in ( *fill in the blank * )

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. It's a matter of keeping these shootings in perspective and not over-hyping for political or other purposes. Yes, two shootings is too many. But saying it's 18 when it's not anywhere near that doesn't help anyone either.
One of them, for example, was when a third-grader pressed the trigger on a holstered weapon on a school liaison officer. The gun fired into the floor.

I appreciate that you have a different way of looking at this but the questions I'm asking myself is:

Why wasn't the hand gun safety on?
Why has a school liaison officer got a gun?

I'm also thinking it's lucky nobody got killed or injured.

Another one was when a student picked up what they thought was a training weapon was actually a loaded gun and when they fired it, it went through a wall and broke a window.

Again, I'm also thinking it's lucky nobody got killed or injured.

It's eighteen firearms incidents in schools this year.

What part of that are you finding difficult to understand?
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Old 19.02.2018, 18:38
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Re: A shooting just happened in ( *fill in the blank * )

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Do people really think that guns have a place in schools?

(Well obviously you do but you're a special case, I believe).
Obsiously, I do not.

Tom
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  #3134  
Old 19.02.2018, 21:03
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Re: A shooting just happened in ( *fill in the blank * )

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Obsiously, I do not.
You do realise that if you put a 'sarcastic' icon after a sentence it means you do not mean what you just wrote and you are just being sarcastic?


And, after all your posts and your drive-by groans 'obviously' is not the word that springs to mind.

If you don't want any more gun control, and you don't want guns in schools, instead of all your drive-by-groans, why don't you give a little more to the thread suggest a better solution than more stringent gun-control?

Last edited by Tom1234; 19.02.2018 at 21:16.
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Old 19.02.2018, 21:14
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Re: A shooting just happened in ( *fill in the blank * )

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Why wasn't the hand gun safety on?
Many handguns don't have external safety mechanisms.
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Old 19.02.2018, 21:17
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Re: A shooting just happened in ( *fill in the blank * )

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Many handguns don't have external safety mechanisms.
And many do.

Don't you think that, around children, it would be better to have a gun with a safety mechanism?
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Old 19.02.2018, 21:49
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Re: A shooting just happened in ( *fill in the blank * )

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...I think we can all agree that there is something remarkably wrong with American gun legislation.
Yes, we can.

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...It's eighteen firearms incidents in schools this year.

What part of that are you finding difficult to understand?
But it's not actually 18 incidents in schools in terms of students actually being shot or in danger. That's what the fuss is about. When the term "school shooting" is used it conjures up images of Columbine, Virginia Tech, etc. where many kids were killed and/or injured.

IMO, there's a big difference between kids being shot at vs. a gun being fired somewhere on property identified as school grounds, even if it wasn't aimed at anyone.

Did you read the article that Ticino Tom linked? Snippet from the article:

Quote:
...Take, for example, what it [Everytown] counted as the year’s first: On the afternoon of Jan. 3, a 31-year-old man who had parked outside a Michigan elementary school called police to say he was armed and suicidal. Several hours later, he killed himself. The school, however, had been closed for seven months. There were no teachers. There were no students.
That simply wasn't a school shooting. A dude shot himself in a parking lot of a building that was no longer being used as a school. The organization has now removed this one from its list.

Also from the article, the bit I agree with and where my perspective is coming from:
Quote:
...The figures matter because gun-control activists use them as evidence in their fight for bans on assault weapons, stricter background checks and other legislation. Gun rights groups seize on the faults in the data to undermine those arguments and, similarly, present skewed figures of their own
To answer your question about the school safety officer, I don't know why the safety wasn't on but my guess is he forgot. Why did he have a gun? I'd guess because the prevailing attitude in much of the U.S. is that the only way to stop a bad guy with a gun is to have a good guy with a gun.
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  #3138  
Old 19.02.2018, 21:53
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Re: A shooting just happened in ( *fill in the blank * )

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I think we can all agree that there is something remarkably wrong with American gun legislation.
Zzzzzzzzzzzzzz. This is what happens when you try to solve complex problems with simple solutions. Mexico and South Africa may not have as many school shootings, but they have 3x and 6x the murder rate of the USA respectively. Is somehting remarkably wrong with their gun legislation too?
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Old 19.02.2018, 21:57
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Re: A shooting just happened in ( *fill in the blank * )

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Zzzzzzzzzzzzzz. This is what happens when you try to solve complex problems with simple solutions. Mexico and South Africa may not have as many school shootings, but they have 3x and 6x the murder rate of the USA respectively. Is somehting remarkably wrong with their gun legislation too?
Yes.
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Old 19.02.2018, 22:15
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Re: A shooting just happened in ( *fill in the blank * )

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Did you read the article that Ticino Tom linked?
If you had read my post then you would know that I quoted a couple of those
'non-shooting incidents' where a gun was shot (and luckily no one was killed), in schools.

You do appreciate that a lot of the gun deaths in the U.S. are classified as 'accidents'?

If someone dies, in a US school (or indeed anywhere) do the parents and family feel better if it was an accident?

If you were honest with yourself, you'd realise that gun death figures are probably being manipulated on both sides of the argument (in this thread, probably more on the pro-gun side) yet you choose to focus on the anti-gun side.

Perhaps you ought to come clean and let us know your stance as you don't appear to be sitting on any fence I can see.
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