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  #3521  
Old 25.02.2018, 09:42
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Re: A shooting just happened in ( *fill in the blank * )

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Excuse me for interfering but with this post you basically say, kk is right?
No, I'm not. KK is refering to absent fathers, which is down the willful abandonment path. I'm refering to bereavement which does have an aspect of abandonment.

My dad died when I was 18. Years later, my mum said she'd been keeping a close eye on me because she lost her dad at 17 and had 'acted out'. There were two definite occasions when I really lost it and was uncharacteristically aggressive towards people. Both incidents were at college. I still have close friends from our college days, and they all clearly remember both instances.
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  #3522  
Old 25.02.2018, 09:57
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Re: A shooting just happened in ( *fill in the blank * )

Going back down the gun control route, there's an inbteresting graph that you can play around with here...

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_o...ted_death_rate

If you pull the results based upon gun ownership, Americans have phenomenally more guns that any other country. If you pull the results based upon % of gun related deaths, Switzerland is higher that the US
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  #3523  
Old 25.02.2018, 10:05
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Re: A shooting just happened in ( *fill in the blank * )

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No, I'm not. KK is refering to absent fathers, which is down the willful abandonment path. I'm refering to bereavement which does have an aspect of abandonment.
I originally spoke of the breakdown of the family unit.
Specifically, boys growing up without both of their biological parents in the house, and more often than not is is the father who is absent.

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Once again, for the hard of reading....

The Florida school killer had a father figure in the home. His father died when the shooter was 13, which is the same time that the shooter's behaviour deteriorated. Capiche?
He was abandoned by his biological parents, and was adopted at age two.

From what I read, his adoptive father 'died a decade ago'. Given that he's 19, I would put him at 9 years old when his adoptive father died.

So he had a father figure (who was not his biological dad) in the home between 2 and 9 years old.

Kids need their fathers, and he did not grow up in a traditional family unit, like most other school shooters.
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  #3524  
Old 25.02.2018, 10:18
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Re: A shooting just happened in ( *fill in the blank * )

Looking into this more, I came across the work of Doctor Peter Langman, a psychologist who specializes in school shootings.

Specifically, a document that he compiled which had a sample of 56 school shooters, which includes only those for whom there is information regarding their childhoods.

It shows that only 10 of them (18%) grew up in a stable home with both biological parents.

82% grew up either in dysfunctional families or without their parents together, for at least part of their lives.

Source
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  #3525  
Old 25.02.2018, 10:21
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Re: A shooting just happened in ( *fill in the blank * )

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Looking into this more, I came across the work of Doctor Peter Langman, a phycologist who specializes in school shootings.

Specifically, a document that he compiled which had a sample of 56 school shooters, including only those for whom there is information regarding their childhoods.

It shows that only 10 of them (18%) grew up in a stable home with both biological parents.

82% grew up either in dysfunctional families or without their parents together, for at least part of their lives.

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We already established you were onto something, now imagine that all these troubled children didn't have access to guns...we wouldn't be talking about them now, would we?
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  #3526  
Old 25.02.2018, 11:12
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Re: A shooting just happened in ( *fill in the blank * )

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Looking into this more, I came across the work of Doctor Peter Langman, a psychologist who specializes in school shootings.

Specifically, a document that he compiled which had a sample of 56 school shooters, which includes only those for whom there is information regarding their childhoods.

It shows that only 10 of them (18%) grew up in a stable home with both biological parents.

82% grew up either in dysfunctional families or without their parents together, for at least part of their lives.

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Dr. Langman’s groundbreaking work identifies multiple factors that converge to turn kids into killers.
No easy explanation here.
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  #3527  
Old 25.02.2018, 11:35
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Re: A shooting just happened in ( *fill in the blank * )

Could this be where a solution needs to start?

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The Centers for Disease Control and Prevention has avoided conducting research on firearm violence since 1996, when Congress passed an appropriations bill barring the CDC from using funds to advocate or promote gun control.



In 2012 President Obama ordered the CDC and other federal bodies to resume research on firearms violence in the wake of the Sandy Hook shooting. But Congress has yet to allocate a single dollar for CDC research on firearm violence.
https://theconversation.com/public-h...violence-60994
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  #3528  
Old 25.02.2018, 11:46
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Re: A shooting just happened in ( *fill in the blank * )

It's only logical, why waste money on the truth when much, much more can be made spreading lies?
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  #3529  
Old 25.02.2018, 12:15
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Re: A shooting just happened in ( *fill in the blank * )

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It's only logical, why waste money on the truth when much, much more can be made spreading lies?
Think of the size of military parade that money would finance...
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  #3530  
Old 25.02.2018, 12:25
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Re: A shooting just happened in ( *fill in the blank * )

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Think of the size of military parade that money would finance...
...and celebrating the very essence of a liar!
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  #3531  
Old 25.02.2018, 12:39
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Re: A shooting just happened in ( *fill in the blank * )

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...and celebrating the very essence of a liar!
If he's a liar, he's the liariest of all.
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  #3532  
Old 25.02.2018, 14:26
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Re: A shooting just happened in ( *fill in the blank * )

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Going back down the gun control route, there's an inbteresting graph that you can play around with here...

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_o...ted_death_rate

If you pull the results based upon gun ownership, Americans have phenomenally more guns that any other country. If you pull the results based upon % of gun related deaths, Switzerland is higher that the US
Same chart shows 91% of gun-related deaths in Switzerland are suicide. 7% are homicide, compared with 35% in US.

Are you referring to the last column, the firearm related deaths per gun?

This metric is certain to be lower for the US, which has more than one gun for every member of the population, compared with Switzerland that has 24 per 100 inhabitants. The more guns, the lower the death rate per firearm.

Based only on this wikipedia chart, the death rate from guns in the US is 3 and half times higher (per 100k inhabitants), the number of firearms owned is 4 times higher (per 100 inhabitants), unintentional death rate 45 times higher (per 100k inhabitants) and homicide rate (excluding suicide) 17 x higher.

The data does not indicate any area where Switzerland compares less favourably to the US with regards to gun related deaths.
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  #3533  
Old 25.02.2018, 16:09
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Re: A shooting just happened in ( *fill in the blank * )

The 5 time ,bone spure , draft deferment calls a deputy sheriff a "Coward" https://www.englishforum.ch/images/s...n/msnblush.gif
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  #3534  
Old 25.02.2018, 16:39
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Re: A shooting just happened in ( *fill in the blank * )

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When I wrote earlier about fatherless school shooters, in the majority of divorce cases the mother will be granted custody of the children. Likewise, children born without a father will be raised by their mother. Which means that the girls who grow up without fathers (which is also destructive) will still have their mother with whom they can identify. Whereas the boys will often grow up without a father in the house and someone to identify with, and the detrimental effects of this are rather clear in terms of drug use, suicide, violent crimes and gun homicide.
I don't think that holds. Or perhaps I should say, it doesn't look out far enough.

i) there's a very strong correlation between lack of material wealth and criminalty
ii) single-parent households, especially where the mother is the income provider, have a much higher risk of poverty or dependence on social welfare than two-parents households

Thus children in single-parent households have a much higher risk of becoming delinquent. Due to the low household income, not due to the absence of a father figure.

As for your link, crime rates saw their peak in the mid-90ies, exactly when the article was written and the bill it criticises was enacted. Falling crime rates since then (by some 40%) do indeed indicate the bill's effectiveness, further supporting an outright correlation (rather than coincidence) between crime rates and poverty. In case you were wondering, incarceration rate is roughly flat since the year 2000 as is the rate of people in the correctional process, so the decline in crime rates wasn't caused by taking the criminals off the streets.
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82% grew up either in dysfunctional families or without their parents together, for at least part of their lives.
Check the same for "ordinary" criminals, you may find similar ratios (just a guess).

ETA:
Why banning AR-15 style weapons makes sense. With the correction that tripling the bullet speed increases its kinetic energy ninefold, rather than threefold as mentioned in the article.

Last edited by Urs Max; 25.02.2018 at 17:30.
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  #3535  
Old 25.02.2018, 17:29
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Re: A shooting just happened in ( *fill in the blank * )

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i) there's a very strong correlation between lack of material wealth and criminalty
ii) single-parent households, especially where the mother is the income provider, have a much higher risk of poverty or dependence on social welfare than two-parents households
Thus children in single-parent households have a much higher risk of becoming delinquent. Due to the low household income, not due to the absence of a father figure.
Harvard sociologist Robert Sampson disagrees: ''Family structure is one of the strongest, if not the strongest, predictor of variations in urban violence across cities in the United States''

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As for your link, crime rates saw their peak in the mid-90ies, exactly when the article was written and the bill it criticises was enacted. Falling crime rates since then (by some 40%) do indeed indicate the bill's effectiveness, further supporting an outright correlation (rather than coincidence) between crime rates and poverty. In case you were wondering, incarceration rate is roughly flat since the year 2000 as is the rate of people in the correctional process, so the decline in crime rates wasn't caused by taking the criminals off the streets.
Very difficult to confirm. As you pointed out above, fatherless homes also tend to be much more susceptible to poverty.
Here is an interesting article which discusses this more in depth.

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Check the same for "ordinary" criminals, you may find similar ratios (just a guess).
Of course. Just take a look at the black community who have an epidemic of fatherless children.
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  #3536  
Old 25.02.2018, 17:36
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Re: A shooting just happened in ( *fill in the blank * )

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Harvard sociologist Robert Sampson disagrees: ''Family structure is one of the strongest, if not the strongest, predictor of variations in urban violence across cities in the United States''



Very difficult to confirm. As you pointed out above, fatherless homes also tend to be much more susceptible to poverty.
Here is an interesting article which discusses this more in depth.


Of course. Just take a look at the black community who have an epidemic of fatherless children.
You cannot resist the odd racist comment can you?
Here is a contrary article "No, Most Black Kids Are Not Fatherless"
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  #3537  
Old 25.02.2018, 17:42
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Re: A shooting just happened in ( *fill in the blank * )

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You cannot resist the odd racist comment can you?
Here is a contrary article "No, Most Black Kids Are Not Fatherless"
57.6% of black children, 31.2% of Hispanic children, and 20.7% of white children are living absent their biological fathers.
Source: Family Structure and Children’s Living Arrangements 2012. Current Population Report. U.S. Census Bureau July 1, 2012.

Quoting HuffPost now?
You're an even sweeter kid than I thought
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  #3538  
Old 25.02.2018, 18:07
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Re: A shooting just happened in ( *fill in the blank * )

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57.6% of black children, 31.2% of Hispanic children, and 20.7% of white children are living absent their biological fathers.
Source: Family Structure and Children’s Living Arrangements 2012. Current Population Report. U.S. Census Bureau July 1, 2012.

Quoting HuffPost now?
You're an even sweeter kid than I thought
So what happened to your argument that being fatherless is a prime cause of school shootings when you claim there are many more fatherless black children but school shooters are white?
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  #3539  
Old 25.02.2018, 18:22
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Re: A shooting just happened in ( *fill in the blank * )

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Looking at all the warning signs, tips and the way it was handled it seems more and more like a complete cock up by the authorities and the FBI in particular.
There were five warning calls to the local sheriffs office and only two to the FBI, so why do you blame "the FBI in particular"?

Source
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  #3540  
Old 25.02.2018, 21:44
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Re: A shooting just happened in ( *fill in the blank * )



Tom
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