Go Back   English Forum Switzerland > Off-Topic > Off-Topic > International affairs/politics
Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
  #21  
Old 24.08.2012, 20:06
Leafy's Avatar
Forum Veteran
 
Join Date: Feb 2010
Location: ...
Posts: 905
Groaned at 89 Times in 68 Posts
Thanked 1,458 Times in 560 Posts
Leafy has a reputation beyond reputeLeafy has a reputation beyond reputeLeafy has a reputation beyond reputeLeafy has a reputation beyond repute
Re: A shooting just happened in ( *fill in the blank * )

I'll get groaned to hell for this:

Why are we still discussing America & its love affair with guns?
They obviously have no bloody intention of changing anything and must therefore think that the body count is a price worth paying for their "freedoms".
So I'll go out on a limb: Sod 'em. Let them carry on shooting each other if that's what they apparently want. When they want to grow up & sort it out we'll be right there behind them, but in the meantime, seriously - why should I be expected to care anymore?
Reply With Quote
The following 6 users would like to thank Leafy for this useful post:
The following 4 users groan at Leafy for this post:
  #22  
Old 24.08.2012, 20:41
Upthehatters2008's Avatar
Forum Legend
 
Join Date: May 2010
Location: In the kitchen at parties.
Posts: 4,575
Groaned at 212 Times in 126 Posts
Thanked 6,078 Times in 2,378 Posts
Upthehatters2008 has a reputation beyond reputeUpthehatters2008 has a reputation beyond reputeUpthehatters2008 has a reputation beyond reputeUpthehatters2008 has a reputation beyond reputeUpthehatters2008 has a reputation beyond reputeUpthehatters2008 has a reputation beyond repute
Re: A shooting just happened in ( *fill in the blank * )

Is King Kong OK though ?
Reply With Quote
  #23  
Old 24.08.2012, 21:06
Swissmountainair's Avatar
Forum Veteran
 
Join Date: Oct 2008
Location: A moving target...
Posts: 879
Groaned at 18 Times in 15 Posts
Thanked 950 Times in 448 Posts
Swissmountainair has a reputation beyond reputeSwissmountainair has a reputation beyond reputeSwissmountainair has a reputation beyond reputeSwissmountainair has a reputation beyond repute
Re: A shooting just happened in ( *fill in the blank * )

Putting aside political talking points which tend to dominate any discussion of US gun laws the simple facts are staggering.

Total 9/11 attacks deaths - nearly 3,000
Total firearm homicide deaths in 2009 (US government data) - 11,493 N.B. this is only homicides at the hand of guns, not suicides which more than double this figure.

In other words the US population suffers 4 9/11s every year - not from militant islamists, but from home-grown gun owners.

Given the huge amount of effort and resources expended on tackling the perpetrators and aftermath of 9/11 it is, from a distant perspective, nothing less than perverse that the issue of deaths at the hands of gun-owners are not given remotely the same attention in the media or by the judiciary than that of a terrorist threat. Not a liberal position, not a conservative criticism just an honest opinion.

An alien looking down on the planet from space might very well scratch its head.
__________________
Expat In Switzerland website and FREE monthly e-newsletter containing articles on life in Switzerland & what's on events guide
Reply With Quote
The following 6 users would like to thank Swissmountainair for this useful post:
  #24  
Old 24.08.2012, 21:16
Leafy's Avatar
Forum Veteran
 
Join Date: Feb 2010
Location: ...
Posts: 905
Groaned at 89 Times in 68 Posts
Thanked 1,458 Times in 560 Posts
Leafy has a reputation beyond reputeLeafy has a reputation beyond reputeLeafy has a reputation beyond reputeLeafy has a reputation beyond repute
Re: A shooting just happened in ( *fill in the blank * )

Although obviously a groan from st2lemans doesn't count as he'd groan at me even if i wished everyone a happy day & a free kitten.
Reply With Quote
The following 2 users would like to thank Leafy for this useful post:
  #25  
Old 24.08.2012, 21:56
Member
 
Join Date: May 2009
Location: Basel
Posts: 173
Groaned at 13 Times in 11 Posts
Thanked 392 Times in 245 Posts
leonie has a reputation beyond reputeleonie has a reputation beyond reputeleonie has a reputation beyond reputeleonie has a reputation beyond repute
Re: A shooting just happened in ( *fill in the blank * )

Quote:
View Post
Putting aside political talking points which tend to dominate any discussion of US gun laws the simple facts are staggering.

Total 9/11 attacks deaths - nearly 3,000
Total firearm homicide deaths in 2009 (US government data) - 11,493 N.B. this is only homicides at the hand of guns, not suicides which more than double this figure.

In other words the US population suffers 4 9/11s every year - not from militant islamists, but from home-grown gun owners.

Given the huge amount of effort and resources expended on tackling the perpetrators and aftermath of 9/11 it is, from a distant perspective, nothing less than perverse that the issue of deaths at the hands of gun-owners are not given remotely the same attention in the media or by the judiciary than that of a terrorist threat. Not a liberal position, not a conservative criticism just an honest opinion.

An alien looking down on the planet from space might very well scratch its head.
33, 808 people were killed on the roadways in the US in 2009 (motor vehicle deaths) -- that is 11 of 9/11.
Reply With Quote
  #26  
Old 24.08.2012, 22:01
TiMow's Avatar
Forum Legend
 
Join Date: Dec 2010
Location: Fribourg
Posts: 9,308
Groaned at 292 Times in 196 Posts
Thanked 12,189 Times in 5,300 Posts
TiMow has a reputation beyond reputeTiMow has a reputation beyond reputeTiMow has a reputation beyond reputeTiMow has a reputation beyond reputeTiMow has a reputation beyond reputeTiMow has a reputation beyond repute
Re: A shooting just happened in ( *fill in the blank * )

Quote:
View Post
Although obviously a groan from st2lemans doesn't count as he'd groan at me even if i wished everyone a happy day & a free kitten.
I disagree .... I'm sure if you offered Tom a free kitten, he'd thank you ..................
















................................ he does like his exotic cooking.
Reply With Quote
  #27  
Old 24.08.2012, 22:03
Swissmountainair's Avatar
Forum Veteran
 
Join Date: Oct 2008
Location: A moving target...
Posts: 879
Groaned at 18 Times in 15 Posts
Thanked 950 Times in 448 Posts
Swissmountainair has a reputation beyond reputeSwissmountainair has a reputation beyond reputeSwissmountainair has a reputation beyond reputeSwissmountainair has a reputation beyond repute
Re: A shooting just happened in ( *fill in the blank * )

Quote:
View Post
33, 808 people were killed on the roadways in the US in 2009 (motor vehicle deaths) -- that is 11 of 9/11.
Come now, that is more than a little disingenuous. Most of those 33,808 would have been driving on the roadway for a constructive reason, something that can rarely be said of a human being discharging a firearm at a fellow human being.
Reply With Quote
  #28  
Old 24.08.2012, 22:04
Forum Veteran
 
Join Date: Sep 2011
Location: Pittsburgh
Posts: 1,981
Groaned at 68 Times in 51 Posts
Thanked 5,049 Times in 1,795 Posts
crazygringo has a reputation beyond reputecrazygringo has a reputation beyond reputecrazygringo has a reputation beyond reputecrazygringo has a reputation beyond reputecrazygringo has a reputation beyond reputecrazygringo has a reputation beyond repute
Re: A shooting just happened in ( *fill in the blank * )

Quote:
View Post
Sorry should have said...."Of all the states that do issue carry pistol licenses, New York State has arguably the strictest handgun licensing policies in the nation". Not quite a total ban but pretty strict.
"strictest" doesn't mean all that much when nearly every other State in the union freely permits purchase and sale of handguns and maintains only minimum requirements for CCW permits.
Reply With Quote
  #29  
Old 24.08.2012, 22:11
Forum Veteran
 
Join Date: Sep 2011
Location: Pittsburgh
Posts: 1,981
Groaned at 68 Times in 51 Posts
Thanked 5,049 Times in 1,795 Posts
crazygringo has a reputation beyond reputecrazygringo has a reputation beyond reputecrazygringo has a reputation beyond reputecrazygringo has a reputation beyond reputecrazygringo has a reputation beyond reputecrazygringo has a reputation beyond repute
Re: A shooting just happened in ( *fill in the blank * )

fyi, the news is now reporting that the killer was a disgruntled former employee targeting an executive who had fired him, and that the bystander victims were struck by police gunfire as they shot the killer.
Reply With Quote
This user would like to thank crazygringo for this useful post:
  #30  
Old 24.08.2012, 22:47
Rodica's children's Avatar
Member
 
Join Date: Feb 2011
Location: Lausanne
Posts: 118
Groaned at 16 Times in 11 Posts
Thanked 78 Times in 60 Posts
Rodica's children has earned some respectRodica's children has earned some respect
Re: A shooting just happened in ( *fill in the blank * )

Quote:
View Post
As for what planet I stepped of .....well you know there is more to the world than just the USA right .....

Back to your point :
true but I am talking EU regulations that I know of (Belgium)
you have to register, go 12x a year to the shooting range , be a member of a shooting club, pass the exam and mental test register your ammunition, and you can not fire in public (even in your back yard) guns are solely for recreation and in the rare case for protection.
hunting licenses are again another thing where you have to go through several courses etc to 1. know what you are shooting, when and where to shoot it etc, There is a reason why they had to make shooting out of your car for game illegal now isn't there... And I do not think that shooting your gun around friends at a party qualifies as allowable but that my opinio
I' m all for guns and for people to have them but from my time in MN (rather hillbilly like conditions) I think it would be great to have some more control.

Less guns there are less the criminals can get their hands on and the more they are caught the more can be destroyed.

just my 2 cents
Not quite true but good attempt, i lived in belgium. No mental test, no ammo reg,
No attendance check. These are not EU rules by the way.
Reply With Quote
  #31  
Old 24.08.2012, 22:53
Rodica's children's Avatar
Member
 
Join Date: Feb 2011
Location: Lausanne
Posts: 118
Groaned at 16 Times in 11 Posts
Thanked 78 Times in 60 Posts
Rodica's children has earned some respectRodica's children has earned some respect
Re: A shooting just happened in ( *fill in the blank * )

Quote:
View Post
Putting aside political talking points which tend to dominate any discussion of US gun laws the simple facts are staggering.

Total 9/11 attacks deaths - nearly 3,000
Total firearm homicide deaths in 2009 (US government data) - 11,493 N.B. this is only homicides at the hand of guns, not suicides which more than double this figure.

In other words the US population suffers 4 9/11s every year - not from militant islamists, but from home-grown gun owners.

Given the huge amount of effort and resources expended on tackling the perpetrators and aftermath of 9/11 it is, from a distant perspective, nothing less than perverse that the issue of deaths at the hands of gun-owners are not given remotely the same attention in the media or by the judiciary than that of a terrorist threat. Not a liberal position, not a conservative criticism just an honest opinion.

An alien looking down on the planet from space might very well scratch its head.
Yes perhaps, but it might think twice about busting into your house and abducting you.

Last edited by Rodica's children; 24.08.2012 at 23:02. Reason: correction
Reply With Quote
  #32  
Old 25.08.2012, 03:38
Forum Legend
 
Join Date: Nov 2009
Location: Vaud
Posts: 2,900
Groaned at 97 Times in 46 Posts
Thanked 1,932 Times in 921 Posts
Anthony1406 has a reputation beyond reputeAnthony1406 has a reputation beyond reputeAnthony1406 has a reputation beyond reputeAnthony1406 has a reputation beyond reputeAnthony1406 has a reputation beyond repute
Re: A shooting just happened in ( *fill in the blank * )

Quote:
View Post
Not quite true but good attempt, i lived in belgium. No mental test, no ammo reg,
No attendance check. These are not EU rules by the way.


I do not like being proven wrong so here is a pretty accurate description of the law.
So before calling people out make sure to check
both my parents have 7 guns in total (which are in a safe at home) and they DO have to go undergo these test. and attendance is checked by the gun club they attend

Eu rules im not certain but in Belgium yes
Btw the source is not the best but looking into it some more (i really hate being proven wrong ) it seems to be accurate


First of all, the basic law in Belgium is that we CAN NOT own guns. None. EXCEPT if you are a licensed hunter OR a licensed recreational shooter. Up to 2006, you only needed a license to buy a handgun or semiautomatic rifle, hunting rifles could be bought freely. Processing the application for a firearms-license could take anywhere from a few minutes up to a few months, depending on how pro or con private gunownership the chief of police in your village was.
Now, even as a registered hunter or sportsman, to apply for a license, we need to fill in a large file containing of course both the identity of buyer and the seller of the gun, describe the gun, add a picture, tell how and where you plan on storing the weapon, why you apply for a gun, add proof of membership of a gunclub.
The gunclub needs to declare that it is allowed to shoot that particular weapon on their firing range, and that the applier is a regular and good member that never caused any troubles.
Then, all other adult (+18y.o.) family members living in your house have to sign a declaration that they agree with your application.
You also need a declaration of a doctor in which he states that you are suited to handle firearms.
Then you still have to pass a theoretical and a practical test.
To top it off, add a list of firearms that you already have plus a copy of all the licenses of these firearms.
Under this new law, it takes two to six months to process your application. And each application will cost you about €95 in taxes. And if you want to buy another gun a few months later, you have to fill in the entire file again, from scratch. And pay again. One positive note: If I apply for, let's say, 15 guns at a time, I can put these 15 applications in one file, and then I have to pay the tax only one time.

When I finally get my permit and buy the gun, I have to keep my gun in a locked closet, or if I have five or more guns, I have to keep them in a safe. If you have more than 25 weapons, you have to create a gunroom with a solid door with alarmsystem and if the room has a window, put bars in front of the window.

I am only allowed to transport my weapon between home and the firing range or the gunstore and then I have to transport it with a triggerlock in place, inside a locked briefcase, with the ammunition in a seperate locked box and put it in the closed trunk of the car so I can't reach it while driving.

Yesyes, the belgian lawmaker obviously has a lot of confidence in his citizens.

And now, recently, some politicians proposed to ban all semi-automatic guns
Reply With Quote
  #33  
Old 25.08.2012, 06:02
poptart's Avatar
Forum Veteran
 
Join Date: May 2011
Location: Boston
Posts: 1,786
Groaned at 33 Times in 28 Posts
Thanked 3,013 Times in 1,242 Posts
poptart has a reputation beyond reputepoptart has a reputation beyond reputepoptart has a reputation beyond reputepoptart has a reputation beyond reputepoptart has a reputation beyond reputepoptart has a reputation beyond repute
Re: A shooting just happened in ( *fill in the blank * )

Quote:
View Post
Although obviously a groan from st2lemans doesn't count as he'd groan at me even if i wished everyone a happy day & a free kitten.
I don't know about that as, though I not a groaner, I was tempted given this incident has nothing to with gun laws. I am personally fatigued with the European view on these incidendents as I live with one from a tiny country where guns are more plentiful than der Schweiz and, yet, this shit happens there, too, but with a population that is smaller thn the NYC metro area. It's complicated, tragic and worthy of something more thoughtful than the usual easy bile.
Reply With Quote
  #34  
Old 25.08.2012, 08:20
Carlos R's Avatar
Forum Legend
 
Join Date: Dec 2009
Location: Roundn'about Basel
Posts: 7,187
Groaned at 113 Times in 101 Posts
Thanked 9,824 Times in 4,138 Posts
Carlos R has a reputation beyond reputeCarlos R has a reputation beyond reputeCarlos R has a reputation beyond reputeCarlos R has a reputation beyond reputeCarlos R has a reputation beyond reputeCarlos R has a reputation beyond repute
Re: A shooting just happened in ( *fill in the blank * )

Quote:
View Post
Yes perhaps, but it might think twice about busting into your house and abducting you.
Yes, indeed, because that is a rampant problem in the UK and mainland Europe
Reply With Quote
  #35  
Old 25.08.2012, 08:51
olygirl's Avatar
Forum Legend
 
Join Date: Oct 2007
Location: d' Innerschwiiz
Posts: 5,367
Groaned at 235 Times in 156 Posts
Thanked 11,778 Times in 3,585 Posts
olygirl has a reputation beyond reputeolygirl has a reputation beyond reputeolygirl has a reputation beyond reputeolygirl has a reputation beyond reputeolygirl has a reputation beyond reputeolygirl has a reputation beyond repute
Re: A shooting just happened in ( *fill in the blank * )

Guns and violence in Switzerland.

1. Some people have guns. Not many have pistols, automatic guns etc.
2. The military requires ammo to be stored in their warehouse. The soldier can take the gun home.
3. If a disgruntled employee had shot his superior in Zürich, it wouldn't have made international news.
4. Less guns = less gun-related crime.
5. Switzerland has one of the highest suicide rates in the world. Perhaps this helps prevent violent crime from happening? An interesting thought.
Reply With Quote
  #36  
Old 25.08.2012, 08:54
olygirl's Avatar
Forum Legend
 
Join Date: Oct 2007
Location: d' Innerschwiiz
Posts: 5,367
Groaned at 235 Times in 156 Posts
Thanked 11,778 Times in 3,585 Posts
olygirl has a reputation beyond reputeolygirl has a reputation beyond reputeolygirl has a reputation beyond reputeolygirl has a reputation beyond reputeolygirl has a reputation beyond reputeolygirl has a reputation beyond repute
Re: A shooting just happened in ( *fill in the blank * )

Quote:
View Post
Yes perhaps, but it might think twice about busting into your house and abducting you.
Nope. Our guns don't work on aliens. Next.
Reply With Quote
  #37  
Old 25.08.2012, 09:32
Leafy's Avatar
Forum Veteran
 
Join Date: Feb 2010
Location: ...
Posts: 905
Groaned at 89 Times in 68 Posts
Thanked 1,458 Times in 560 Posts
Leafy has a reputation beyond reputeLeafy has a reputation beyond reputeLeafy has a reputation beyond reputeLeafy has a reputation beyond repute
Re: A shooting just happened in ( *fill in the blank * )

Quote:
View Post
I am personally fatigued with the European view on these incidendents ...It's complicated, tragic and worthy of something more thoughtful than the usual easy bile.
Well, I'm personally fatigued with the American view that these incidents are nothing to do with the fact that its almost as easy to access a firearm as it is to buy a pint of milk. It's not that complicated, but you're right, it is tragic & I've tried being more thoughtful in the past, but it seems you don't want to know & then it just happens again.

What is it - the body count? - 22,000 a year or something?
You can kind of understand the European view can't you? - Its called perplexity.
Reply With Quote
  #38  
Old 25.08.2012, 09:42
amaraya's Avatar
Forum Veteran
 
Join Date: Feb 2009
Location: lausanne
Posts: 2,238
Groaned at 20 Times in 9 Posts
Thanked 2,845 Times in 1,204 Posts
amaraya has a reputation beyond reputeamaraya has a reputation beyond reputeamaraya has a reputation beyond reputeamaraya has a reputation beyond reputeamaraya has a reputation beyond reputeamaraya has a reputation beyond repute
Re: A shooting just happened in ( *fill in the blank * )

Quote:
View Post
Well, I'm personally fatigued with the American view that these incidents are nothing to do with the fact that its almost as easy to access a firearm as it is to buy a pint of milk. It's not that complicated, but you're right, it is tragic & I've tried being more thoughtful in the past, but it seems you don't want to know & then it just happens again.

What is it - the body count? - 22,000 a year or something?
You can kind of understand the European view can't you? - Its called perplexity.
that's a bit simplistic isn't it? the 'american' view is a country very divided over this issue and to say it's the 'american' view and let them carry on shooting each other is to allow one group speak for and represent all.
Reply With Quote
  #39  
Old 25.08.2012, 09:46
Sandgrounder's Avatar
Forum Legend
 
Join Date: Jul 2007
Location: ZH
Posts: 10,994
Groaned at 90 Times in 83 Posts
Thanked 18,578 Times in 7,119 Posts
Sandgrounder has a reputation beyond reputeSandgrounder has a reputation beyond reputeSandgrounder has a reputation beyond reputeSandgrounder has a reputation beyond reputeSandgrounder has a reputation beyond reputeSandgrounder has a reputation beyond repute
Re: A shooting just happened in ( *fill in the blank * )

Quote:
View Post
Guns and violence in Switzerland.

1. Some people have guns. Not many have pistols, automatic guns etc.
2. The military requires ammo to be stored in their warehouse. The soldier can take the gun home.
3. If a disgruntled employee had shot his superior in Zürich, it wouldn't have made international news.
4. Less guns = less gun-related crime.
5. Switzerland has one of the highest suicide rates in the world. Perhaps this helps prevent violent crime from happening? An interesting thought.
Swiss chaps have a sealed tin of 20 rounds of ammunition to be stored at home with their rifle. The tin is inspected at each WK or shooting practise. Or at least that's how it was for my husband and his colleagues.

Having said that, one of his friends got into a spot of bother for forgetting about two extra rounds he had put in his pocket during shooting practise. He was on his way out of the rifle range when the guy called him back with his hand out, then got a stiff talking to.
Reply With Quote
This user would like to thank Sandgrounder for this useful post:
  #40  
Old 25.08.2012, 10:30
Leafy's Avatar
Forum Veteran
 
Join Date: Feb 2010
Location: ...
Posts: 905
Groaned at 89 Times in 68 Posts
Thanked 1,458 Times in 560 Posts
Leafy has a reputation beyond reputeLeafy has a reputation beyond reputeLeafy has a reputation beyond reputeLeafy has a reputation beyond repute
Re: A shooting just happened in ( *fill in the blank * )

Quote:
View Post
that's a bit simplistic isn't it? the 'american' view is a country very divided over this issue and to say it's the 'american' view and let them carry on shooting each other is to allow one group speak for and represent all.
Yes I grant you, it is. But then in theory, the American people are also a democracy with chance to do something about it. It's the complexities of the issue that they seem unwilling to engage with - the fact that neither Obama or Romney are willing be drawn on the issue in an election year speaks volumes about America's attitude toward the issue IMO - America just doesn't seem do self reflection particuarly well & esspecially on the gun issue.

Yes, these things happen elsewhere - no one's denying that & whilst the body count can place them in the charts as some of the worst globally, the fact remains that they are pretty isolated incidents.
Since 1987 there have been 3 major mass shootings in The UK - Hungerford, Dunblane & Cumbria. In the period since Columbine [1999], America has seen 30.
Reply With Quote
Reply

Tags
florida, gay, isis, killed, muslim students, shooting, usa




Currently Active Users Viewing This Thread: 1 (0 members and 1 guests)
 
Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off


Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
My boss is a.......(fill in the gap) goombie General off-topic 35 28.01.2011 15:55
Recreational Shooting in the Geneva canton MAWLER Sports / Fitness / Beauty / Wellness 9 31.08.2010 17:04
What just happened please i could not access the forum Sutter Forum support 44 25.05.2009 20:03
Do I need to fill in Tax forms for the US? Roe Finance/banking/taxation 14 18.06.2008 19:17
What's just happened to the Swiss Franc? Tim Finance/banking/taxation 7 08.05.2007 17:24


All times are GMT +2. The time now is 09:58.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.4
Copyright ©2000 - 2018, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
LinkBacks Enabled by vBSEO 3.1.0