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  #41  
Old 25.08.2012, 11:32
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Re: A shooting just happened in ( *fill in the blank * )

It is well publicised just how powerful a lobbying force the NRA is in the US. However the tobacco companies also used to spend tremendous amounts on lobbyists. What was required, ultimately, was a change of will in the people. It can happen. Look at smoking, almost overnight the US went from smoking being perfectly socially acceptable (in many ways more so than alcohol) to the point where now smoking is publicly viewed as a sad addictive act for losers and about as socially acceptable in many areas as public masturbation.

I guess the challenge for the anti-gun lobby is to turn the machismo perception associated with gun ownership in the US into one where someone with a gun is perceived as about as attractive and socially acceptable as the Norwegian Anders Breivik, or the orange haired Colorado cinema freak then attitudes could change quickly. This might sound far-fetched right now but remember the US is still a very young, and swiftly changing, country.

I quite agree with the idea of defending one's own home. To that end guns need perhaps a house-arrest ankle bracelet type device that allows them within a 50 yard perimeter of one's property. Of course this is a bit moot in a country where guns outnumber people - there will be a huge legacy issue to deal with with that many firearms and so much ammunition out there, in many instances unaccounted for.

To return to this latest incident, the ladies accessory designer with a grudge against his former colleague would, in a country where guns were unavailable, more likely have either not bothered with the assassination, or used a knife. In either case police would not have needed to spray a public area with bullets and injured innocents, a taser would have sufficed against a non-firearm.
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  #42  
Old 25.08.2012, 12:26
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Re: A shooting just happened in ( *fill in the blank * )

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Guns and violence in Switzerland.

1. Some people have guns. Not many have pistols, automatic guns etc.
2. The military requires ammo to be stored in their warehouse. The soldier can take the gun home.
3. If a disgruntled employee had shot his superior in Zürich, it wouldn't have made international news.
4. Less guns = less gun-related crime.
5. Switzerland has one of the highest suicide rates in the world. Perhaps this helps prevent violent crime from happening? An interesting thought.
Sorry OG, but there are some errors there.

The conscript army have high velocity automatic rifles issued as standard. They can get the ammo from any shop.

Gn ownership in CH is relatively high. I saw a graph (yes I know, you'll have to take my word for it ) which was a correlation between gun onwership and shootings (not deaths alone, so included all types such as suicide, accidental and non-fatal).

The relationship was straight line: i.e. more guns more shootings.

The US was top of the list. Guess where CH was?

Yup, second.

I think a shooting in CH would make the news. Whether international (to the US) is another matter. But that may just be a reflection of the US-centric news and a the hysteria around shootings in NY due to 11/9, and in the US, because of the whole gun control issue.

But it just doesn't happen here: why is perhaps more worthy of discussion, as clearly there is a mindset difference. With the exception of that Norwegian dude who managed to kill 70-odd in his planned killing spree.
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  #43  
Old 25.08.2012, 13:23
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Re: A shooting just happened in ( *fill in the blank * )

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.... taking guns will only cause bigger problems with regulating the wildlife, deer and so on...
You hear this BS here in CH as well don't you. Wildlife is quite capable of regulating itself as long as the predators are left untouched. It does not need people to do it for them.

Strangely everything evolved quite nicely for 100s of millions of years before there were people about. Except where the natural balance has been destroyed (usually by hunting or poaching as well) there is no need for artificial control.

This is not pro or contra hunting. Just don't use a wildlife control argument to justify either it or no gun control.
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  #44  
Old 25.08.2012, 13:53
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Re: A shooting just happened in ( *fill in the blank * )

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Yes I grant you, it is. But then in theory, the American people are also a democracy with chance to do something about it. It's the complexities of the issue that they seem unwilling to engage with - the fact that neither Obama or Romney are willing be drawn on the issue in an election year speaks volumes about America's attitude toward the issue IMO - America just doesn't seem do self reflection particuarly well & esspecially on the gun issue.
Leafy, I understand what you're saying here, but, given that this is an election year, most Americans are more focused on what the politicians intend to do about the economic situation in the US.

Job growth, stanching home foreclosures, taxes, reining in the massive debt, affordable health care, energy independence, immigration and social issues (to name a few) are probably higher on the list of most Americans' priorities than enacting stiffer gun control laws. Also, for those in the US who lean more to the right politically, the Second Amendment (protecting the people's right to bear arms) is a sacred cow. Any discussion of repealing it, especially in an election year, would be political suicide for any politician.

Not saying I agree or disagree with any of this. Just stating where things stand
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  #45  
Old 25.08.2012, 23:12
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Re: A shooting just happened in ( *fill in the blank * )

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fyi, the news is now reporting that the killer was a disgruntled former employee targeting an executive who had fired him, and that the bystander victims were struck by police gunfire as they shot the killer.
Story seems to be confirmed today that nearly all the victimes were shot by the police
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  #46  
Old 26.08.2012, 10:31
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Re: A shooting just happened in ( *fill in the blank * )

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It is well publicised just how powerful a lobbying force the NRA is in the US. However the tobacco companies also used to spend tremendous amounts on lobbyists. What was required, ultimately, was a change of will in the people. It can happen. Look at smoking, almost overnight the US went from smoking being perfectly socially acceptable (in many ways more so than alcohol) to the point where now smoking is publicly viewed as a sad addictive act for losers and about as socially acceptable in many areas as public masturbation.

I guess the challenge for the anti-gun lobby is to turn the machismo perception associated with gun ownership in the US into one where someone with a gun is perceived as about as attractive and socially acceptable as the Norwegian Anders Breivik, or the orange haired Colorado cinema freak then attitudes could change quickly. This might sound far-fetched right now but remember the US is still a very young, and swiftly changing, country.

I quite agree with the idea of defending one's own home. To that end guns need perhaps a house-arrest ankle bracelet type device that allows them within a 50 yard perimeter of one's property. Of course this is a bit moot in a country where guns outnumber people - there will be a huge legacy issue to deal with with that many firearms and so much ammunition out there, in many instances unaccounted for.

To return to this latest incident, the ladies accessory designer with a grudge against his former colleague would, in a country where guns were unavailable, more likely have either not bothered with the assassination, or used a knife. In either case police would not have needed to spray a public area with bullets and injured innocents, a taser would have sufficed against a non-firearm.
What I see as scary is that after such shooting incidents, MORE US-Americans go to purchase fire-arms. Which means lots of people suddenly having such a gun, who never had any decent education of how to use the stuff, and neither any decent training
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  #47  
Old 26.08.2012, 11:02
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Re: A shooting just happened in ( *fill in the blank * )

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Sorry OG, but there are some errors there.

The conscript army have high velocity automatic rifles issued as standard. They can get the ammo from any shop.

Gn ownership in CH is relatively high. I saw a graph (yes I know, you'll have to take my word for it which was a correlation between gun onwership and shootings (not deaths alone, so included all types such as suicide, accidental and non-fatal).

The relationship was straight line: i.e. more guns more shootings.

The US was top of the list. Guess where CH was?

Yup, second.

I think a shooting in CH would make the news. Whether international (to the US) is another matter. But that may just be a reflection of the US-centric news and a the hysteria around shootings in NY due to 11/9, and in the US, because of the whole gun control issue.

But it just doesn't happen here: why is perhaps more worthy of discussion, as clearly there is a mindset difference. With the exception of that Norwegian dude who managed to kill 70-odd in his planned killing spree.
Here a bit of info

Country Guns per 100 residents Rank

United States 88.8 ------------1
Serbia ------ 58.2 ------------2
Yemen ------54.8 ----------- -3
Switzerland --45.7 ---------- -4

And this in case of Switzerland even includes army-guns which are NOT owned but only held under "temporary" control

If you deduct those weapons, the "rank" of CH in the statistics

Cyprus -----36.4 --5
Saudi Arabia 35 ----6
Iraq --------34.2 --7
Finland -----32 ----8
Uruguay ----31.8 --9
Sweden ----31.6 -10
Norway -----31.3 -11
France --31.2 -12
Canada -----30.8 -13
Austria --30.4 -14

will drop to a rank comparable with France

in the past 50 years, there was less than one incident with an army weapon per decade ! Not least as MOST of them are returned to the owner after the duty-time is through
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  #48  
Old 26.08.2012, 13:02
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Re: A shooting just happened in ( *fill in the blank * )

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I do not like being proven wrong so here is a pretty accurate description of the law.
So before calling people out make sure to check
both my parents have 7 guns in total (which are in a safe at home) and they DO have to go undergo these test. and attendance is checked by the gun club they attend

Eu rules im not certain but in Belgium yes
Btw the source is not the best but looking into it some more (i really hate being proven wrong ) it seems to be accurate


First of all, the basic law in Belgium is that we CAN NOT own guns. None. EXCEPT if you are a licensed hunter OR a licensed recreational shooter. Up to 2006, you only needed a license to buy a handgun or semiautomatic rifle, hunting rifles could be bought freely. Processing the application for a firearms-license could take anywhere from a few minutes up to a few months, depending on how pro or con private gunownership the chief of police in your village was.
Now, even as a registered hunter or sportsman, to apply for a license, we need to fill in a large file containing of course both the identity of buyer and the seller of the gun, describe the gun, add a picture, tell how and where you plan on storing the weapon, why you apply for a gun, add proof of membership of a gunclub.
The gunclub needs to declare that it is allowed to shoot that particular weapon on their firing range, and that the applier is a regular and good member that never caused any troubles.
Then, all other adult (+18y.o.) family members living in your house have to sign a declaration that they agree with your application.
You also need a declaration of a doctor in which he states that you are suited to handle firearms.
Then you still have to pass a theoretical and a practical test.
To top it off, add a list of firearms that you already have plus a copy of all the licenses of these firearms.
Under this new law, it takes two to six months to process your application. And each application will cost you about €95 in taxes. And if you want to buy another gun a few months later, you have to fill in the entire file again, from scratch. And pay again. One positive note: If I apply for, let's say, 15 guns at a time, I can put these 15 applications in one file, and then I have to pay the tax only one time.

When I finally get my permit and buy the gun, I have to keep my gun in a locked closet, or if I have five or more guns, I have to keep them in a safe. If you have more than 25 weapons, you have to create a gunroom with a solid door with alarmsystem and if the room has a window, put bars in front of the window.

I am only allowed to transport my weapon between home and the firing range or the gunstore and then I have to transport it with a triggerlock in place, inside a locked briefcase, with the ammunition in a seperate locked box and put it in the closed trunk of the car so I can't reach it while driving.

Yesyes, the belgian lawmaker obviously has a lot of confidence in his citizens.

And now, recently, some politicians proposed to ban all semi-automatic guns
I stand (or sit) corrected. I still own guns in Belgium but they are held at a gun club. I realise now that some new regulations have come into force since I was last resident there in 2008. I had to apply to all the regulations there except the doctor, attendance and reg of ammo. Thanks for updating me.
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  #49  
Old 26.08.2012, 13:03
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Re: A shooting just happened in ( *fill in the blank * )

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The only consolation in this shooting is that the b*st*rd killed himself afterwards.

Why couldn't he have just shot himself first and left the others to their own fate?
Seems now the Police say that all 9 of the wounded by-standers were shot by the POLICE... so yea he only shot the guy who was always harassing him at work it seems.
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  #50  
Old 26.08.2012, 16:40
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Re: A shooting just happened in ( *fill in the blank * )

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It is well publicised just how powerful a lobbying force the NRA is in the US. However the tobacco companies also used to spend tremendous amounts on lobbyists. What was required, ultimately, was a change of will in the people. It can happen. Look at smoking, almost overnight the US went from smoking being perfectly socially acceptable (in many ways more so than alcohol) to the point where now smoking is publicly viewed as a sad addictive act for losers and about as socially acceptable in many areas as public masturbation.
I think the case of smoking losing it's cache and gaining a pariah status in the US, has more to do with the tobacco cartel not being able to stand up to the Health Insurance cartel which also has a direct influence on the medical industry. This is why , imho , smoking lost the battle. I don't know the facts about the size of these industries but I think that size and power is where the answer lies. Apparently, the gun\ munitions industry\NRA is much more powerful than gun violence survivors' groups in the US.
Addditionally, guns are just too "cool" , films, the news (see endless war on TV) , video games make the "bang bang" cooler than even just the old..."bang".
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Old 26.08.2012, 21:09
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Re: A shooting just happened in ( *fill in the blank * )

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Seems now the Police say that all 9 of the wounded by-standers were shot by the POLICE... so yea he only shot the guy who was always harassing him at work it seems.
Yes, according to all reports, the culprit only shot the target. But that police failed in every way. The authorities will have some questions to answer
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  #52  
Old 26.08.2012, 22:34
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Re: A shooting just happened in ( *fill in the blank * )

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...The authorities will have some questions to answer
Unfortunatelly , the NYPD does not ever have to answer any questions. Just add one more to the list of "suspects" , ax wielding, wallet carrying, deranged grandmothers...the list of new yorkers who just had to be shot down goes on.
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  #53  
Old 31.08.2012, 14:58
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Re: A shooting just happened in ( *fill in the blank * )

A supermarket in NJ this week. Dear oh dear.
http://www.reuters.com/article/2012/...87U0HA20120831
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  #54  
Old 05.09.2012, 23:20
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Re: A shooting just happened in ( *fill in the blank * )

A shooting just happened in the French Alps - someone just shot 4 people from Britian in the Alps one was on a bicycle others were in a Car with British plates.. one other has survived and is in critical at a Hospital...
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  #55  
Old 12.09.2012, 00:28
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Re: A shooting just happened in ( *fill in the blank * )

Change of scene... Three gangsters were shot dead in their car in Corsica today - automatic weapons and a heavy-duty hunting rifle. Part of a long running tit for tat war between families in France's own Mafia-run enclave. Keep up the good work lads!
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  #56  
Old 03.02.2013, 21:27
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Chris Kyle, author & ex-army sniper shot & killed at range in Texas

Another one bites the dust!

http://uk.news.yahoo.com/chris-kyle-...073401197.html
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  #57  
Old 05.02.2013, 11:26
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Re: Chris Kyle, author & ex-army sniper shot & killed at range in Texas

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-us-canada-21318534

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-us-canada-21331016
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  #58  
Old 05.02.2013, 11:53
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Re: A shooting just happened in ( *fill in the blank * )

Meanwhile, several shootings happened in Switzerland. Why isn't anyone reporting those incidents?
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Old 01.03.2013, 06:57
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Re: A shooting just happened in ( *fill in the blank * )

A 28 year old man was shot in the leg in Romanshorn, TG.

http://www.20min.ch/schweiz/ostschwe...rasse-24037310
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  #60  
Old 01.03.2013, 08:40
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Re: A shooting just happened in ( *fill in the blank * )

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Meanwhile, several shootings happened in Switzerland. Why isn't anyone reporting those incidents?
Yep, it's all a conspiracy by those who like Switzerland

It's been on the BBC, and in a number of foreign newspapers, as well as having been discussed on the forum. But you knew that...
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