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  #581  
Old 08.10.2015, 13:57
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Re: A shooting just happened in ( *fill in the blank * )

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Oh that sounds easy. But I don't think the Supreme Court can singlehandedly remove a Bill of Rights amendment. That could cover steps 1 to 3 in this video. But look at step #5:

Gun free America in 5 Easy Steps
Don'tcha just love the gross simplification and fear-mongering in that NRA-sponsored video -- and your mindless parroting of the lies it propagates.

So the makers of the video claim that various heavily-armed government (again, the big, bad government is out to get you, so you'd better be armed to the teeth to resist it!) agencies would have to smash their way through every private residence in America to enforce gun control legislation. Really? You mean, just as they have in those few cities in the U.S. where some form of gun control exists? And just as the Australian Federal Police did in Australia in 1996/97?

No, Phos, they didn't. And gun legislation didn't remove every firearm from Australia. Nor did it make all firearms illegal, as your video sensationally and provocatively claims. But it did significantly reduce the number of firearms held in Australia, and it did significantly reduce gun crime and gun deaths in Australia. Inarguably and demonstrably, gun control saves lives. It has in Australia and it could in the U.S., if only spineless legislators would grow a pair.
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  #582  
Old 08.10.2015, 14:49
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Re: A shooting just happened in ( *fill in the blank * )

No, you miss the point, and resurfaces your emotional knee jerk reactionism. What that video is saying is that is what it would take for the US to effectively disarm the public. In other words, they can try and talk all they want, but it isn't going to happen.

Obama is exploring a different route, using information gathered on his Obamacare database, to identify people who are at risk of violnce. So at first, he is requesting confidential doctor/ patient information to identify certain comditions.

Except nobody really has any ideas what to look for first. They kind of need empathetic psychics that can predict future crimes and arrest the criminal before he commits a crime.

I think left leaning people have an implicit disconnect that keeps them from differentiating between wishful thinking and objective reality.
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  #583  
Old 08.10.2015, 14:55
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Re: A shooting just happened in ( *fill in the blank * )

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Seriously, Phos, learn what your signature means or change it. Every time I read you bleating that anything but guns is responsible for mass (or other) shootings, I see your signature. Deepest irony.
What do sea snails have to do with guns?

Tom
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  #584  
Old 08.10.2015, 15:10
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Re: A shooting just happened in ( *fill in the blank * )

So to clarify:
1) You have the right to bear arms so that you can rise up against the government Goto 2
2) The government prevents this by having more and bigger guns Goto 3
3) The government is lobbyed intensively by pro-gun groups (including the NRA) to allow people to own guns for Goto 1

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  #585  
Old 08.10.2015, 17:51
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Re: A shooting just happened in ( *fill in the blank * )

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This is actually the bit where Switzerland understood the Jeffersonian militia thing better than the US. The army here is de-facto the people. So the concept of the army fighting against the people doesn't play. If the people (or a sufficiently large subset thereof) were to take their guns and march to Bern, the government would be screwed.
Sorry, but history proves you wrong. For instance, the swiss army intentionally killed swiss workers during the "Generalstreik" in 1918. They shot into gatherings of protesting workes with the intent to kill. Some say CH was on the brink of civil war, with the army steadfastly defending the status quo.
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  #586  
Old 08.10.2015, 18:03
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Re: A shooting just happened in ( *fill in the blank * )

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Sorry, but history proves you wrong. For instance, the swiss army intentionally killed swiss workers during the "Generalstreik" in 1918. They shot into gatherings of protesting workes with the intent to kill. Some say CH was on the brink of civil war, with the army steadfastly defending the status quo.
OK, I'd forgotten about that.

But just suppose there had been a civil war as you suggest, would there not then have been army people of all ranks and seniorities on both sides along with their training, expertes and equipment? This is a different situation to the usual type of civil war where a well equipped army gets to fight an ad hoc militia armed with pitchforks and scythes?
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  #587  
Old 08.10.2015, 18:13
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Re: A shooting just happened in ( *fill in the blank * )

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OK, I'd forgotten about that.

But just suppose there had been a civil war as you suggest, would there not then have been army people of all ranks and seniorities on both sides along with their training, expertes and equipment?
Back then? No, one side were factory workers which had hardly a rank higher than even Sergeant.
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  #588  
Old 09.10.2015, 15:21
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Re: A shooting just happened in ( *fill in the blank * )

Unfortunately another shooting took place today morning at Northern Arizona Univ.. 4 were shot; 1 fatally. This marks the 46th school shooting in the US this year.
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  #589  
Old 09.10.2015, 15:37
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Re: A shooting just happened in ( *fill in the blank * )

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Unfortunately another shooting took place today morning at Northern Arizona Univ.. 4 were shot; 1 fatally. This marks the 46th school shooting in the US this year.
The teachers should be armed with rocket-propelled grenades. That would stop any shooting. And it's God's way, anyway.
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  #590  
Old 09.10.2015, 15:57
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Re: A shooting just happened in ( *fill in the blank * )

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The teachers should be armed with rocket-propelled grenades. That would stop any shooting. And it's God's way, anyway.
Right on, brother. Although ICBMs would more reliably stop those baddies in the black hats from shooting up schools.
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  #591  
Old 09.10.2015, 16:31
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Re: A shooting just happened in ( *fill in the blank * )

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But I don't think the Supreme Court can singlehandedly remove a Bill of Rights amendment. L]
the current state of law regarding gun rights in the US is a fiction made up by the Supreme Court in the first place, and much of it only since Scalia was appointed. prior to Scalia, the Supreme Court had expressly rejected the notion of an individual, i.e. private, right to bear arms.

in other words, all the SCOTUS would have to do is reverse one or two prior decisions, the actual text of the 2nd Amendment is completely (and unfortunately) irrelevant.
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  #592  
Old 09.10.2015, 16:39
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Re: A shooting just happened in ( *fill in the blank * )

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the current state of law regarding gun rights in the US is a fiction made up by the Supreme Court in the first place, and much of it only since Scalia was appointed. prior to Scalia, the Supreme Court had expressly rejected the notion of an individual, i.e. private, right to bear arms.

in other words, all the SCOTUS would have to do is reverse one or two prior decisions, the actual text of the 2nd Amendment is completely (and unfortunately) irrelevant.
Something like that would have to be done for the purpose of judicial activism rather than adjudication, which isn't really the roll, purpose or character of the SCOTUS.

I'm sure there will be all kinds of attempts in some other ways. Obama is expected to announce one shortly, likely around registration and background checks, although this was done before. It was practically ignored and was to no effect.
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  #593  
Old 09.10.2015, 17:19
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Re: A shooting just happened in ( *fill in the blank * )

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It was practically ignored and was to no effect.
And this is exactly the point. If lawmakers and law enforcers want to decrease gun violence, they have to ENFORCE the laws that control guns. That's the whole story behind supposedly-strict Chicago's failure to curb gun crime.
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  #594  
Old 09.10.2015, 17:34
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Re: A shooting just happened in ( *fill in the blank * )

Guns may have stopped Holocaust if the German populace had been allowed to keep their weaponss. So says Republican Presidential hopful Ben Carson.

http://www.bbc.com/news/world-us-canada-34485358

So, how many gun control laws do you think he'd sign into force if he became President?

Funny it doesn't seem to have much effect in stopping mass shootings, murders, etc, in the US. I wonder why?
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Old 09.10.2015, 17:37
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Re: A shooting just happened in ( *fill in the blank * )

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And this is exactly the point. If lawmakers and law enforcers want to decrease gun violence, they have to ENFORCE the laws that control guns. That's the whole story behind supposedly-strict Chicago's failure to curb gun crime.
I don't think you are aware of what those laws are, who applies them and how. There are laws on sales of guns require background checks for certain level of sellers, but the loophole is that anybody can be a seller, simply with an eBay account or a garage sale. How do you suppose these can be enforced, and who would enforce them? Here I suspect your expectations are quite disconnected from reality.

Furthermore, in regards to "gun culture", I find that most people into guns are also attracted to careers that are close to guns. So we are talking about the sheriffs, policemen, National Guardsmen, and the military personnel themselves are the ones who are adamant about gun ownership. These are the same as those who will be enforcing the law on themselves?

Finally, Americans do NOT have a problems with guns. They have a problem with violence. But until you understand that point of differentiation, what you repeatedly chant doesn't really address it.
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  #596  
Old 09.10.2015, 17:50
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Re: A shooting just happened in ( *fill in the blank * )

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Finally, Americans do NOT have a problems with guns. They have a problem with violence.
I'm glad you see it like that.

What you fail to understand though is that if there were no guns but the population was armed with wooden spoons, or wet kippers, or chocolate teapots then this violence wouldn't be so bloody and the death count wouldn't be so high.

Your answer throughout this thread is to have even more guns.
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  #597  
Old 09.10.2015, 18:01
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Re: A shooting just happened in ( *fill in the blank * )

And during that time of ancient history, they hacked each other to death instead. I think you folks have been playing John Lennon's "Imagine" song a little too often. At some point, you have to look at objective reality and see what is really there.

More guns is not my personal answer, my personal answer is to be sober and awake, and do what is best for your situation as you see fit. For those who were personally there at the Oregon shooting, and personally affected, this is their take on it:
Oregon Shooting Survivor Rejects Gun Control

Your take may be for the government to step in and social engineer the US. My take is for individuals to take personal responsibility for themselves.
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Old 10.10.2015, 01:14
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Re: A shooting just happened in ( *fill in the blank * )

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Something like that would have to be done for the purpose of judicial activism rather than adjudication, which isn't really the roll, purpose or character of the SCOTUS.
the SCOTUS has always been about nothing more than judicial activism, everything else you read is window dressing:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Distri...mbia_v._Heller

like I said, everything that you think you believe about the 2nd Amendment is the result of judicial activism. sadly, the plot has been lost for so long that the vast majority of Americans actually believe that the 2nd Amendment says something that it plainly does not.
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Old 10.10.2015, 02:12
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Re: A shooting just happened in ( *fill in the blank * )

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the SCOTUS has always been about nothing more than judicial activism, everything else you read is window dressing:
You're in contempt of court!

While the term is pejorative of decisions one simply does not like, judicial activism is not the intended mode the SCOTUS is to deliberate in. They do have lots of constraints, or should, in regards to interpretations and precedents.

Anyway, I don't see the SCOTUS banning private firearms anytime soon. Do you? And even if they did, I don't see it possible for the goverment to confiscate them short of martial law.
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Old 10.10.2015, 04:18
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Re: A shooting just happened in ( *fill in the blank * )

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And during that time of ancient history, they hacked each other to death instead.
One at a time -- not 20 in a single rampage, effectively by remote control. And it's a hell of a lot easier to take down a person armed with a club or knife than one armed with a gun.
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For those who were personally there at the Oregon shooting, and personally affected, this is their take on it
"THOSE" who were personally there? "THEIR" take on it? The article features an interview with ONE person who was there -- who expresses obvious uncertainty in the interview.

Grasping at straws much, Phos? Perhaps you'd like to revisit just who is being emotional in this debate?
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