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  #1581  
Old 13.06.2016, 16:22
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Re: A shooting just happened in ( *fill in the blank * )

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point is, people have guns even with strict gun laws because of their profession and they can still go nuts.
Many, many fewer in the UK and Australia than in the US. Most police, even, in the UK don't carry firearms. In the former two countries, the Orlando shooter would have had no vocational need for a gun and probably no legal right to get one.
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Old 13.06.2016, 16:22
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Re: A shooting just happened in ( *fill in the blank * )

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So the FBI, having interviewed him and having put him on the no-fly list decided NOT to withdraw his license and confiscate his weapons.

Remind me again - what does the I in FBI stand for??
crazy right?

if that is what you guys mean with stricter gun laws (withdraw licenses from potential terrorists) i am totally with you.
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Old 13.06.2016, 16:23
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Re: A shooting just happened in ( *fill in the blank * )

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point is, people have guns even with strict gun laws because of their profession and they can still go nuts.


Indeed, but would you deny that the total death toll would be lower? On the one hand because children have drastically less opportunity to shoot each other, or their parents, and on the other hand because the peace officers themselves would not spend their entire working life in something close to a war zone?
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  #1584  
Old 13.06.2016, 16:25
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Re: A shooting just happened in ( *fill in the blank * )

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They thought he was enough of a problem to interview him and put him on a no fly list, but it was apparently too far to infringe on his 2nd amendment rights?


Oh, wait, 2nd amendment rights are inalienable.... ok
You are touching on it. So close.


Would it be better if we just locked him up? The 2nd amendment, if not inalienable, means neither is the 4th, 5th or 6th.

Why was he "allowed" to walk around as a free man(4th)? Heck, he was Muslim, he was under suspicion for having radical ideas and he had a funny name. 3 strikes so time to go to the detention center out west somewhere. No need for a jury to decide this(6th). No need to produce an arrest warrant(5th). Just a van in the middle of the night.


What's scary? That thinking is getting a voice in the US.
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  #1585  
Old 13.06.2016, 16:25
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Re: A shooting just happened in ( *fill in the blank * )

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"Investigation"... and I bet you were thinking "Intelligence" in an embarrassing blond moment.
You got me!!! My problem is my brain switches off everytime I see or hear FBI.



(The FBI does fall under being an "Intelligence" agency - one of 16 the US has )
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Old 13.06.2016, 16:26
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Re: A shooting just happened in ( *fill in the blank * )

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Many, many fewer in the UK and Australia than in the US. Most police, even, in the UK don't carry firearms. In the former two countries, the Orlando shooter would have had no vocational need for a gun and probably no legal right to get one.
well good. who is gonna stop him then when he does acquire a firearm anyway?
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Old 13.06.2016, 16:29
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Re: A shooting just happened in ( *fill in the blank * )

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well good. who is gonna stop him then when he does acquire a firearm anyway?
Have you never experienced the true power a blown whistle has??

Or simply asking him politely to stop making such a dreadful racket?
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Old 13.06.2016, 16:32
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Re: A shooting just happened in ( *fill in the blank * )

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well good. who is gonna stop him then when he does acquire a firearm anyway?
If. If he acquires a firearm. And the answer is, trained peace officers (police, etc.) who hopefully have the support of decent intelligence. If it's just a wacko doing what wackos do, there's very little anyone can do save making it harder for him to get a gun in the first place.

Once again, liberal access to guns didn't help the 103 killed and injured in Orlando, did it? I can't see how strict restriction of access to guns could have made that situation any worse.
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  #1589  
Old 13.06.2016, 16:33
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Re: A shooting just happened in ( *fill in the blank * )

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Have you never experienced the true power a blown whistle has??

Or simply asking him politely to stop making such a dreadful racket?
"When a felon's not engaged in his employment,
or maturing his felonious little plans.
His capacity for innocent enjoyment,
is just as great as any, honest man's.
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Old 13.06.2016, 16:59
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Re: A shooting just happened in ( *fill in the blank * )

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If. If he acquires a firearm. And the answer is, trained peace officers (police, etc.) who hopefully have the support of decent intelligence. If it's just a wacko doing what wackos do, there's very little anyone can do save making it harder for him to get a gun in the first place.

Once again, liberal access to guns didn't help the 103 killed and injured in Orlando, did it? I can't see how strict restriction of access to guns could have made that situation any worse.
again, we need to know how many of the 103 + bystanders were actually carrying a gun. gay club = democrats = anti gun. so no guns there, and no some obscure gay gun club is not gonna change that assumption.

i can already see where this is going. anti gun is gonna blame pro gun for not saving lives with the argument "but thats why you are pro gun arent you, do something!"
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  #1591  
Old 13.06.2016, 17:19
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Re: A shooting just happened in ( *fill in the blank * )

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again, we need to know how many of the 103 + bystanders were actually carrying a gun. gay club = democrats = anti gun. so no guns there, and no some obscure gay gun club is not gonna change that assumption.

i can already see where this is going. anti gun is gonna blame pro gun for not saving lives with the argument "but thats why you are pro gun arent you, do something!"
I'm not sure why. Have you seen the videos of people carrying trying to use their guns when threatened? The vast majority of them failed - meaning that even those carrying require the training to master with drawing their gun from a concealed holster, removing the safety, aiming and firing.

And guess what - the majority of people don't take the training because they consider owning the gun as enough protection.

Consider for a moment how things could have been different had he had a Colt .45 SAA and bolt action rifle. He (or anyone else) still maintains their right to bear arms but the choice of arms is limited.
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  #1592  
Old 13.06.2016, 17:31
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Re: A shooting just happened in ( *fill in the blank * )

A journalist summed it up perfectly last year:

"In retrospect Sandy Hook marked the end of the US gun control debate. Once America decided killing children was bearable, it was over."
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Old 13.06.2016, 17:38
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Re: A shooting just happened in ( *fill in the blank * )

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I'm not sure why. Have you seen the videos of people carrying trying to use their guns when threatened? The vast majority of them failed - meaning that even those carrying require the training to master with drawing their gun from a concealed holster, removing the safety, aiming and firing.

And guess what - the majority of people don't take the training because they consider owning the gun as enough protection.

Consider for a moment how things could have been different had he had a Colt .45 SAA and bolt action rifle. He (or anyone else) still maintains their right to bear arms but the choice of arms is limited.
required training sounds like a nobrainer to me. in that sense, growing up with guns probably helps as well, i.e. gun culture.

no AR15, fine by me as well.

dont mistake me for pro gun with no limits. im mainly anti-anti-gun because the arguments suck. in fact i hardly give a shit about the whole gun control debate - but i do care when it becomes a distraction. like in this case, where EF treats a major terrorist attack as random shooting in fillintheblank. if only the cynicism hidden in that fact was on purpose...
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  #1594  
Old 13.06.2016, 17:44
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Re: A shooting just happened in ( *fill in the blank * )

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like in this case, where EF treats a major terrorist attack as random shooting in fillintheblank. if only the cynicism hidden in that fact was on purpose...
A mass shooting in the guise of a terrorist attack OR a terrorist attack in the guise of a mass shooting.

The outcome is the same - somebody who shouldn't have had access to an automatic rifle and who had been detained and questioned by an intelligence agency was allowed to slaughter 50 innocent people.

Does it really mater what we label it? Ultimately if both sides got their shit together it would have been less likely to occur.
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Old 13.06.2016, 18:10
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Re: A shooting just happened in ( *fill in the blank * )

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A mass shooting in the guise of a terrorist attack OR a terrorist attack in the guise of a mass shooting.

The outcome is the same - somebody who shouldn't have had access to an automatic rifle and who had been detained and questioned by an intelligence agency was allowed to slaughter 50 innocent people.

Does it really mater what we label it? Ultimately if both sides got their shit together it would have been less likely to occur.
the labeling does matter because it allows you to differentiate between the turd that shoots up his school because he was bullied and the turd that does it because of a fcked up ideology in our midst.

the first is like cutting yourself accidentally. some skin is lost and leaves a scar. -> evaluate what went wrong and which safety measures we can take.

the second is like having cancer. sure you only lose a piece of skin now but was that enough, or do you have a serious problem? -> investigate and act before you die.
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Old 13.06.2016, 18:18
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Re: A shooting just happened in ( *fill in the blank * )

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The outcome is the same - somebody who shouldn't have had access to an automatic rifle and who had been detained and questioned by an intelligence agency was allowed to slaughter 50 innocent people.
.

Was it an automatic AR?
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  #1597  
Old 13.06.2016, 18:21
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Re: A shooting just happened in ( *fill in the blank * )

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the labeling does matter because it allows you to differentiate between the turd that shoots up his school because he was bullied and the turd that does it because of a fcked up ideology in our midst.

the first is like cutting yourself accidentally. some skin is lost and leaves a scar. -> evaluate what went wrong and which safety measures we can take.

the second is like having cancer. sure you only lose a piece of skin now but was that enough, or do you have a serious problem? -> investigate and act before you die.

Have a look at the CDC data: https://localtvkfor.files.wordpress....sgundeaths.png


(I am trying to find the source straight from CDC, no luck yet)


Which of those two lines represents cutting yourself accidentally?
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  #1598  
Old 13.06.2016, 18:24
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Re: A shooting just happened in ( *fill in the blank * )

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Was it an automatic AR?
AR-15, semi-automatic (45 rounds per minute), apparently -- see here.
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  #1599  
Old 13.06.2016, 18:26
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Re: A shooting just happened in ( *fill in the blank * )

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AR15, semi-automatic, apparently -- see here.
I assume that was the case . I just want people to avoid mixing terms
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Old 13.06.2016, 18:34
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Re: A shooting just happened in ( *fill in the blank * )

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I assume that was the case . I just want people to avoid mixing terms
I just edited my previous post. Yes, semi-automatic, although it can fire at the rate of 45 rounds per minute.

Nobody can reasonably justify the use of an AR-15 (of which there are around 3.5 million in the US) for hunting, self-defence, or any other peaceful purpose. You simply don't need to to spray 45 bullets around in 60 seconds to defend yourself. AR-15s have one purpose and only one purpose: causing as much destruction as a lightweight rifle possibly can, in the shortest time possible.

Last edited by 22 yards; 13.06.2016 at 18:50. Reason: Corrected semi-automatic comment
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