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  #1681  
Old 15.06.2016, 01:02
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Re: A shooting just happened in ( *fill in the blank * )

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But the guy did (apparently) pledge allegiance to ISIS.
And the guy was religious. In the article you posted his ex-wife states ''he did follow religion, he did practice and he had his faith''

So to say it's got nothing to do with ISIS or Islam seems rather illogical.
And the guy was religious? Opposite behaviour displayed.

Ramadan is a time of purification of the soul.
It’s a time when Muslims love to do good deeds, whether that’s visiting the sick, giving to charity or donating clothes and food to those less fortunate.

Ramadan isn’t just fasting from food, it’s also a fast from bad deeds.

According to Islamic scholar Omid Safi, physical attacks during Ramadan are “the greatest insult, the greatest affront to the teachings of Islam.”

Last edited by marton; 15.06.2016 at 01:51.
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  #1682  
Old 15.06.2016, 01:14
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Re: A shooting just happened in ( *fill in the blank * )

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So, my being able to place blame on the UCC would be tenuous, yet you have no problem assigning a great weight to the effect of Islam on the other side.
But I think there’s quite a big difference. Here is my reasoning:

Jesus Christ never hurt or harmed anybody for any reason. Period. So if anybody tries to do so in his name, they have absolutely no justification for this claim.

Muhammad on the other hand apparently did have people killed, but always for a 'justified reason' (such as Asma bint Marwan who dared to ridicule Islam)
This is what the Islamic scholars debate: Not whether the death sentence is allowed or not (it is) but simply when it is justified to apply it.
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  #1683  
Old 15.06.2016, 01:23
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Re: A shooting just happened in ( *fill in the blank * )

Aha, so since Muhammed is bad, then so is Islam, and by association all of it's followers.


What is that term that people keep using?




Oh yeah, I remember.... "Extremism"
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  #1684  
Old 15.06.2016, 01:39
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Re: A shooting just happened in ( *fill in the blank * )

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And the guy was religious? Opposite behaviour displayed.

Ramadan is a time of purification of the soul.
It’s a time when Muslims love to do good deeds, whether that’s visiting the sick, giving to charity or donating clothes and food to those less fortunate.

Ramadan isn’t just fasting from food, it’s also a fast from bad deeds.

According to Islamic scholar Omid Safi, physicalattacks during Ramadan are “the greatest insult, the greatest affront to the teachings of Islam.”
And according to ISIS, jihadis should carry out acts of aggression during Ramadan:

http://dailycaller.com/2016/06/12/is...ando-shooting/

http://metro.co.uk/2016/05/23/isis-r...madan-5899738/

Just because most Muslims may not agree with ISIS and violence during Ramadan, while some others do, doesn't make the killer's behavior 'the opposite of religious'.

Which Muslims are the true Muslims is irrelevant to the discussion - to deny that this guy had no religious/ISIS influence, while it was exactly his stated motive, is a blatant denial of the known facts.
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  #1685  
Old 15.06.2016, 01:41
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Re: A shooting just happened in ( *fill in the blank * )

Inner conflict + easy purchase of weapons = a shooting

I believe this has less to do with ISIS and more to do with a mentally ill man who could not deal with his homosexual tendencies and decided to extinguish his inner demons by using extreme Muslim beliefs to justify killing his "temptations."
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  #1686  
Old 15.06.2016, 01:45
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Re: A shooting just happened in ( *fill in the blank * )

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Inner conflict + easy purchase of weapons = a shooting

I believe this has less to do with ISIS and more to do with a mentally ill man who could not deal with his homosexual tendencies and decided to extinguish his inner demons by using extreme Muslim beliefs to justify killing his "temptations."
Every other motive besides ISIS, which he himself pledged his allegiance to at the time of the shooting, is plain conjecture.

I'm not saying you're wrong, but it could just as easily be argued that his mental illness and inner demons were caused by extreme Muslim beliefs.
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  #1687  
Old 15.06.2016, 02:00
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Re: A shooting just happened in ( *fill in the blank * )

This is getting stranger by the day...

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His current wife, Noor Mateen, has since told the FBI she was with him when Omar bought ammunition and a holster, and drove him to the Pulse nightclub so he could see it in advance.
US law enforcement officers are considering filing criminal charges against Noor, for failing to tell them what she knew prior to the shooting.
http://www.itv.com/news/update/2016-...out-of-attack/
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  #1688  
Old 15.06.2016, 02:04
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Re: A shooting just happened in ( *fill in the blank * )

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And according to ISIS, jihadis should carry out acts of aggression during Ramadan:

http://dailycaller.com/2016/06/12/is...ando-shooting/

http://metro.co.uk/2016/05/23/isis-r...madan-5899738/

Just because most Muslims may not agree with ISIS and violence during Ramadan, while some others do, doesn't make the killer's behavior 'the opposite of religious'.

Which Muslims are the true Muslims is irrelevant to the discussion - to deny that this guy had no religious/ISIS influence, while it was exactly his stated motive, is a blatant denial of the known facts.
"according to ISIS, jihadis should carry out acts of aggression during Ramadan" So proving ISIS people are not true followers of Islam, thank you for the information.

"to deny that this guy had no religious/ISIS influence" Islam religious influence and Isis influence are two opposing influences.

"it was exactly his stated motive" Do you believe every criminals stated reasons for their actions, rather naive? For example, "The voices told me to do it"!
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  #1689  
Old 15.06.2016, 02:15
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Re: A shooting just happened in ( *fill in the blank * )

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"according to ISIS, jihadis should carry out acts of aggression during Ramadan" So proving ISIS people are not true followers of Islam, thank you for the information.

"to deny that this guy had no religious/ISIS influence" Islam religious influence and Isis influence are two opposing influences.

"it was exactly his stated motive" Do you believe every criminals stated reasons for their actions, rather naive? For example, "The voices told me to do it"!
right, so ISIS has nothing to do with religion

Again, just because there are different conflicting interpretations of Islam doesn't mean that all of it's followers aren't religious. There are many different factions of Christianity, too - by your logic there must only be one true group of Christians and the rest are heretics.

Are you implying that he was using ISIS as a scapegoat? How about the San Bernadino shooters, same for them? The guy who killed the two cops in Paris yesterday? Charlie Hebdo? The mosque in Yemen? Tunisian beach resort? Turkey peace rally bombing? Flight 224 over Egypt? Brussels bombings? All a bunch of liars who really had nothing to do with ISIS, yet claimed it as their motive?

Do you see a pattern here?
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  #1690  
Old 15.06.2016, 02:28
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Re: A shooting just happened in ( *fill in the blank * )

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right, so ISIS has nothing to do with religion

Again, just because there are different conflicting interpretations of Islam doesn't mean that all of it's followers aren't religious. There are many different factions of Christianity, too - by your logic there must only be one true group of Christians and the rest are heretics.

Are you implying that he was using ISIS as a scapegoat? How about the San Bernadino shooters, same for them? The guy who killed the two cops in Paris yesterday? Charlie Hebdo? The mosque in Yemen? Tunisian beach resort? Turkey peace rally bombing? Flight 224 over Egypt? Brussels bombings? All a bunch of liars who really had nothing to do with ISIS, yet claimed it as their motive?

Do you see a pattern here?
"so ISIS has nothing to do with religion" Congratulations, you got the point.

"there are different conflicting interpretations of Islam " Where do you get this from, there is one Koran - unchanged for one and a half millennium!

"Are you implying that he was using ISIS as a scapegoat?" No, he was a sick man who made irrational statements.
You have no right to apply my comments to other terrorist actions.
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  #1691  
Old 15.06.2016, 02:34
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Re: A shooting just happened in ( *fill in the blank * )

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But I think there’s quite a big difference. Here is my reasoning:

Jesus Christ never hurt or harmed anybody for any reason. Period. So if anybody tries to do so in his name, they have absolutely no justification for this claim.

Muhammad on the other hand apparently did have people killed, but always for a 'justified reason' (such as Asma bint Marwan who dared to ridicule Islam)
This is what the Islamic scholars debate: Not whether the death sentence is allowed or not (it is) but simply when it is justified to apply it.
"Jesus Christ never hurt or harmed anybody for any reason." Did you ever read the Old Testament?

The Crusaders believed they were justified?
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  #1692  
Old 15.06.2016, 02:54
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Re: A shooting just happened in ( *fill in the blank * )

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"there are different conflicting interpretations of Islam " Where do you get this from, there is one Koran - unchanged for one and a half millennium!
Well thats just ridiculous, of course there are different interpretations of the Koran.
It's kind of a big part of the problems we're seeing around the world.

Last edited by kriss kross; 15.06.2016 at 03:48.
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  #1693  
Old 15.06.2016, 08:26
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Re: A shooting just happened in ( *fill in the blank * )

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"Jesus Christ never hurt or harmed anybody for any reason." Did you ever read the Old Testament?

The Crusaders believed they were justified?
While I agree with the general direction of all your previous comments, I do have to point out that the Old Testament is... old. Pre-Christ. There was no Christianity at that time.

But yes, a lot of killing has been done in Christ's name.
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Old 15.06.2016, 08:28
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Re: A shooting just happened in ( *fill in the blank * )

Body was found in Fislisbach - Shots were reported

http://www.20min.ch/schweiz/zuerich/...Toter-30190102
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Old 15.06.2016, 08:41
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Re: A shooting just happened in ( *fill in the blank * )

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Body was found in Fislisbach - Shots were reported

http://www.20min.ch/schweiz/zuerich/...Toter-30190102
TIA - This Is Aargau
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  #1696  
Old 15.06.2016, 08:48
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Re: A shooting just happened in ( *fill in the blank * )

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right, so ISIS has nothing to do with religion

Again, just because there are different conflicting interpretations of Islam doesn't mean that all of it's followers aren't religious. There are many different factions of Christianity, too - by your logic there must only be one true group of Christians and the rest are heretics.

Are you implying that he was using ISIS as a scapegoat? How about the San Bernadino shooters, same for them? The guy who killed the two cops in Paris yesterday? Charlie Hebdo? The mosque in Yemen? Tunisian beach resort? Turkey peace rally bombing? Flight 224 over Egypt? Brussels bombings? All a bunch of liars who really had nothing to do with ISIS, yet claimed it as their motive?

Do you see a pattern here?
A bunch of idiots are told to jump off the bridge and do it. What does it say?

Easy to manipulate.
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  #1697  
Old 15.06.2016, 09:08
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Re: A shooting just happened in ( *fill in the blank * )

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"so ISIS has nothing to do with religion" Congratulations, you got the point.

"there are different conflicting interpretations of Islam " Where do you get this from, there is one Koran - unchanged for one and a half millennium!

"Are you implying that he was using ISIS as a scapegoat?" No, he was a sick man who made irrational statements.
You have no right to apply my comments to other terrorist actions.

Well now you're just trolling...

from Wiki: ISIS:" The Islamic State of Iraq and the Levant (ISIL, IPA /ˈaɪsᵻl/), also known as the Islamic State of Iraq and Syria[note 1] (ISIS, /ˈaɪsᵻs/),[31] and by its Arabic language acronym Daesh (داعش‎ dāʿish, IPA: [ˈdaːʕiʃ]),[32][33] is a Salafi jihadist militant group that follows an Islamic fundamentalist, Wahhabi doctrine of Sunni Islam.[34]"

As if that's not obvious..

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A bunch of idiots are told to jump off the bridge and do it. What does it say?

Easy to manipulate.
Who are easy to manipulate - Muslims in general or just the small portion of Muslims who turn radical and start killing people. How about the ones who would never kill anyone themselves but agree that 'they had it coming'?

This thread has turned bonkers - why is it that people refuse to acknowledge that ISIS plays a role when it's exactly what has been said by the perpetrator(s) themselves

Last edited by pilatus1; 15.06.2016 at 09:26.
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  #1698  
Old 15.06.2016, 09:32
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Re: A shooting just happened in ( *fill in the blank * )

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This is getting stranger by the day...


http://www.itv.com/news/update/2016-...out-of-attack/
I think she was very afraid of him, otherwise she would have probably reported him...sad.
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  #1699  
Old 15.06.2016, 09:42
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Re: A shooting just happened in ( *fill in the blank * )

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I think she was very afraid of him, otherwise she would have probably reported him...sad.
I'm wondering why she hasn't already been arrested.

You'd think that knowing about the plans, going shopping for ammunition, and giving rides to the location would be considered being an accomplice.

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Old 15.06.2016, 09:49
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Re: A shooting just happened in ( *fill in the blank * )

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Who are easy to manipulate - Muslims in general or just the small portion of Muslims who turn radical and start killing people. How about the ones who would never kill anyone themselves but agree that 'they had it coming'?

This thread has turned bonkers - why is it that people refuse to acknowledge that ISIS plays a role when it's exactly what has been said by the perpetrator(s) themselves
We don't see all 1.6 billions of Muslims mass murdering, don't we?
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