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  #1721  
Old 15.06.2016, 13:16
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Re: A shooting just happened in ( *fill in the blank * )

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imagine 2 groups in the world:
1 million "weird, rejected, pissed gays"
1 million "isis fans"

which group would produce the most mass murderers? rhetorical.

do you honestly think that, IF those 2 groups even overlap, the probability of producing mass murderer is significantly higher in the overlap than in the non gay "isis fans"?

the power of isis comes from their inspiration. self radicalized lone wolves. you dont have go to the local recruitment station to sign up for isis in order to be isis official "member" before they can claim your attack.
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  #1722  
Old 15.06.2016, 13:18
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Re: A shooting just happened in ( *fill in the blank * )

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I like this.

http://www.bbc.com/news/world-australia-36431916

"During lectures, clips of which were posted online, the cleric has said the death penalty is justified for homosexuals in societies operating under Islamic laws.

"Death is the sentence. There's nothing to be embarrassed about this. Death is the sentence," he said during a 2013 lecture at the University of Michigan.

He told Australia's Daily Telegraph newspaper that his comments had been taken out of context and said he did not believe his words could have inspired Mateen's nightclub attack."

Um, exactly HOW were they taken out of context? Because it happened in America and not Saudi Arabia where it would have been fine?

Religion is a curse on the world.
It's not just the muslims:

http://www.thenewcivilrightsmovement...ial_candidates
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  #1723  
Old 15.06.2016, 13:45
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Re: A shooting just happened in ( *fill in the blank * )

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im making your head spin?

you regurgitate some hugely contrived theory about him possibly being weird and possibly being gay and possibly being pissed of because possibly rejected and possibly faking isis allegiance for lulz.

whereas i try to make you understand that if you see a mass murderer it's simply more likely to be an isis fan (and vice versa). especially when he himself claims to be isis.

ockhams razor.
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  #1724  
Old 15.06.2016, 13:53
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Re: A shooting just happened in ( *fill in the blank * )

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whereas i try to make you understand that if you see a mass murderer it's simply more likely to be an isis fan (and vice versa). especially when he himself claims to be isis.
And we should never forget that he was interviewed on three occassions for his views, not his possible sexuality.

I see it as:
Daesh sympathies put him on the watch list and no fly list.
Possible conflicts in his own sexuality may have influenced his choice of victims.

But one thing is increasingly clear, there were going to be victims regardless.
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  #1725  
Old 15.06.2016, 13:59
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Re: A shooting just happened in ( *fill in the blank * )

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im making your head spin?

you regurgitate some hugely contrived theory about him possibly being weird and possibly being gay and possibly being pissed of because possibly rejected and possibly faking isis allegiance for lulz.

whereas i try to make you understand that if you see a mass murderer it's simply more likely to be an isis fan (and vice versa). especially when he himself claims to be isis.

ockhams razor.

If you want to use Ockham's razor then "He was a nutcase." is also valid.


(Interesting that nobody "corrected" your spelling.)
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  #1726  
Old 15.06.2016, 14:02
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Re: A shooting just happened in ( *fill in the blank * )

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im making your head spin?

you regurgitate some hugely contrived theory about him possibly being weird and possibly being gay and possibly being pissed of because possibly rejected and possibly faking isis allegiance for lulz.

whereas i try to make you understand that if you see a mass murderer it's simply more likely to be an isis fan (and vice versa). especially when he himself claims to be isis.

ockhams razor.
https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/...the-deadliest/
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  #1727  
Old 15.06.2016, 14:05
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Re: A shooting just happened in ( *fill in the blank * )

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imagine 2 groups in the world:
1 million "weird, rejected, pissed gays"
1 million "isis fans"

which group would produce the most mass murderers? rhetorical.

do you honestly think that, IF those 2 groups even overlap, the probability of producing mass murderer is significantly higher in the overlap than in the non gay "isis fans"?

the power of isis comes from their inspiration. self radicalized lone wolves. you dont have go to the local recruitment station to sign up for isis in order to be isis official "member" before they can claim your attack.
The flaw in this argument is your proposition that these two groups are the same size. If there were 1 million ISIS fans then we would all be dead

I can believe the other group is at least so large when so many live in daily fear of the death penalty or other severe penalties.

Anyway we are discussing one person here so whatever the result of your comparison it is not relevant to this thread.
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  #1728  
Old 15.06.2016, 14:07
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Re: A shooting just happened in ( *fill in the blank * )

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"Jesus Christ never hurt or harmed anybody for any reason." Did you ever read the Old Testament?
Eeeehm, although I agreed with many of your post I would like to mention, Jesus Christ was not in the old testament (although mentioned that he was expected).
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  #1729  
Old 15.06.2016, 14:19
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Re: A shooting just happened in ( *fill in the blank * )

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Eeeehm, although I agreed with many of your post I would like to mention, Jesus Christ was not in the old testament (although mentioned that he was expected).
True but we are comparing religions not people/prophets and the Old Testament is an integral part of Christianity.

On the other hand there is the interesting (but probably not relevant) fact that Jesus is mentioned by name 25 times in the Koran whereas Muhammad is only mentioned by name 4 times.
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  #1730  
Old 15.06.2016, 14:22
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Re: A shooting just happened in ( *fill in the blank * )

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If you want to use Ockham's razor then "He was a nutcase." is also valid.


(Interesting that nobody "corrected" your spelling.)
yeah or continuing that line of reasoning, we state that he was "male" or "human" ending up with no practical information at all.

i dont think nutcase and isis fan are mutually exclusive anyway. in fact, they are the same. so we got baseline number of nutcases shooting up people. no chance of doing something about this because random fuses blow.

now we add isis fans on top of that. we know the root cause of that so we can actually act on this and reduce number of total nutcases. if you willingly ignore that information you simply accept more casualties than sadly necessary.

besides, its not like isis fans are a plus to begin with. so even when not killing they are dangerous. a general nutcase is that quiet guy leading a normal life and then flips out because life sucks. not because he is part of a death cult and cant wait to be a martyr.
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  #1731  
Old 15.06.2016, 14:34
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Re: A shooting just happened in ( *fill in the blank * )

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The flaw in this argument is your proposition that these two groups are the same size. If there were 1 million ISIS fans then we would all be dead

I can believe the other group is at least so large when so many live in daily fear of the death penalty or other severe penalties.

Anyway we are discussing one person here so whatever the result of your comparison it is not relevant to this thread.
i meant those groups to be large samples of the total amount of those groups. so 1 million out of many million "weird, rejected, pissed gays" and 1 million out of many million "isis fans". worldwide yes.

one person? i see near daily atrocities by isis fans, but not by gay dudes.

bottomline: mass murderer yelling allah akhbar -> due to islam (happens often). mass murderer yelling allah akhbar -> due to homosexuality (doesnt happen)
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  #1732  
Old 15.06.2016, 14:37
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Re: A shooting just happened in ( *fill in the blank * )

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What??? Nothing except brainwashing people into thinking(?) that there is a SPECIAL MAN in the sky, who sent SPECIAL MEN into this mortal world to do crazy deeds that pertain to one's own society's corrupt ways of thinking? Religion does have a lot to do with extremisms - it teaches people that they are better than those who don't belong to their club, and even within those clubs there are members worthier than others.

Unless secular people start acting, and act decisively against these acts, we'll see more of them.
You are confusing "religion" with "church". Two completely different things in Christianity as well as with the moslems.
For example: While Jesus dispelled the traders from the temple the catholic church made good money with sale of indulgences.
(not religious but the bible is quite an interesting book and oh so very different from what church leaders tell people)
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  #1733  
Old 15.06.2016, 14:42
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Re: A shooting just happened in ( *fill in the blank * )

Does it matter what the motive was?

Somebody with radical beliefs (motive) had the opportunity and easy access to means.

No matter what you do you can not control motive but you can put efforts into controlling opportunity and means. Clearly though there are enough radical Americans who believe they can control the motive part.
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  #1734  
Old 15.06.2016, 14:57
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Re: A shooting just happened in ( *fill in the blank * )

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Does it matter what the motive was?

Somebody with radical beliefs (motive) had the opportunity and easy access to means.

No matter what you do you can not control motive but you can put efforts into controlling opportunity and means. Clearly though there are enough radical Americans who believe they can control the motive part.
of course the motive matters. id be wary of anyone applauding that motive.
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  #1735  
Old 15.06.2016, 14:58
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Re: A shooting just happened in ( *fill in the blank * )

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Here is my take:

The guy was gay but got rejected constantly for being very weird. He got pissed, decided all those people are horrible for his suffering and went into a killing rampant while putting it on Daesh to freak people out.

Meanwhile, Daesh saw the news and was like: who the f*** is this guy? Who cares! He is one of us, one of us, one of us!!
I got the impression that many common criminals use ISIS to back up their crimes - in fact only have the guts to do something which up until now they had an urge to do but were afraid of going through with it.
The West is only too happy to put them into the same pot as the real attacks by ISIS and other moslem extremists (after all, you can't have enough examples of how bad "the muslems" are) and - as Nil said - ISIS is only too happy to take them all on their account (after all they can't have enough followers to prove they're widely accepted and supported).
It makes me wonder if the most dangerous part of ISIS is that it rids weak people from inhibitions.

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This thread has turned bonkers - why is it that people refuse to acknowledge that ISIS plays a role when it's exactly what has been said by the perpetrator(s) themselves
see above.
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  #1736  
Old 15.06.2016, 15:01
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Re: A shooting just happened in ( *fill in the blank * )

more psychology? where do you people get these insights in the criminal mind?
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  #1737  
Old 15.06.2016, 15:05
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Re: A shooting just happened in ( *fill in the blank * )

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of course the motive matters. id be wary of anyone applauding that motive.
Oh I see - so which motive for gunning down 50 innocent people sits well with you?
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  #1738  
Old 15.06.2016, 15:09
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Re: A shooting just happened in ( *fill in the blank * )

Major crackdown on Islam extremists in Bangladesh has resulted in 11,600 arrests (how many!).
Also claims to have captured one leader (one?).

Source
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  #1739  
Old 15.06.2016, 15:28
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Re: A shooting just happened in ( *fill in the blank * )

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Oh I see - so which motive for gunning down 50 innocent people sits well with you?
none. and you?
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Old 15.06.2016, 15:51
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Re: A shooting just happened in ( *fill in the blank * )

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Does it matter what the motive was?
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of course the motive matters.
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Oh I see - so which motive for gunning down 50 innocent people sits well with you?
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none. and you?
You're not very good at this are you?

I proffered that the motive doesn't matter - meaning that it doesn't what reason there is for slaughtering 50 innocent people it the slaughter itself and not the motive behind it that is important.

You countered that the motive did matter. This implies that there could be a motive where slaughtering 50 innocent people was OK.

You were asked to clarify - and you responded that there are none. If there are none the motive can be removed. After all, as I have mentioned time and again, you will always find people with motive - the last 100 years of history is riddled with them.

If we can prevent the motive perhaps we can prevent the opportunity or means.

Work on the things that can be changed.
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