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  #1861  
Old 17.06.2016, 11:37
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Re: A shooting just happened in ( *fill in the blank * )

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and extremist ideologies that advocate for mass killing sprees don't help, either.
They don't help - but they're not the underlying problem.

The "solving" of problems with a gun seems to be the disease that needs to be tackled, as posted before this demonstrates that mass shootings are a serious problem - with numerous underlying causes.

Perhaps this could have been prevented had the means not been so easily available.
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  #1862  
Old 17.06.2016, 11:37
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This has nothing to do with skin color and it is absurd to paint it that way. A white supremacist that kills for a political reason is a mentally ill terrorist white supremacist. A brown (or white, or black, or green) Muslim who kills for a religious reason is a mentally ill terrorist Islamist.

Has anyone said otherwise? Or are you trying to play the victim?
Why do you feel the need to make a debate something personal?

I'm no victim. Those dead and injured are. What's your point?

you read the news, you must have seen that the man who killed the MP yesterday described as mentally ill, supporter of white supremacists, etc.. But no where was he been called a terrorist.

What he has done is the basics of any terrorists books. So why isn't he be called one?
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  #1863  
Old 17.06.2016, 11:47
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Re: A shooting just happened in ( *fill in the blank * )

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you read the news, you must have seen that the man who killed the MP yesterday described as mentally ill, supporter of white supremacists, etc.. But no where was he been called a terrorist.

What he has done is the basics of any terrorists books. So why isn't he be called one?
Was Lee Harvey Oswald a terrorist?

What about Gavrilo Princip?
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Old 17.06.2016, 11:55
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Re: A shooting just happened in ( *fill in the blank * )

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Why do you feel the need to make a debate something personal?

I'm no victim. Those dead and injured are. What's your point?

you read the news, you must have seen that the man who killed the MP yesterday described as mentally ill, supporter of white supremacists, etc.. But no where was he been called a terrorist.

What he has done is the basics of any terrorists books. So why isn't he be called one?
A terrorist is someone who uses violence in the pursuit of political aims.

Tell me what Jo Cox's murderers political aims were and I'll tell you he was a terrorist.

It's not that difficult to grasp.
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  #1865  
Old 17.06.2016, 12:05
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A terrorist is someone who uses violence in the pursuit of political aims.

Tell me what Jo Cox's murderers political aims were and I'll tell you he was a terrorist.

It's not that difficult to grasp.
Eeeeeeh, we already mentioned them....
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  #1866  
Old 17.06.2016, 12:08
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The IRA weren't called terrorists?
Not by the US, but that's a whole other thread.
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Old 17.06.2016, 12:09
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Re: A shooting just happened in ( *fill in the blank * )

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Eeeeeeh, we already mentioned them....
Then you must have some insight that the West Yorkshire police don't. Name his political motives plus evidence.
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  #1868  
Old 17.06.2016, 12:18
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Re: A shooting just happened in ( *fill in the blank * )

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you read the news, you must have seen that the man who killed the MP yesterday described as mentally ill, supporter of white supremacists, etc.. But no where was he been called a terrorist.

What he has done is the basics of any terrorists books. So why isn't he be called one?
TBH, the available evidence so far points more towards mental illness than terrorism. There is no evidence of premeditation, no Facebook messages or calls to the press or police stating a political motive. Reports of him shouting 'Britain First!' have so far not been substantiated*- and his actions are in no way condoned, supported, etc, by the Britain First org. or any other organization. There is a definite history of mental illness and psychiatric treatment. According to his half-brother, "He's never expressed any views about Britain, or politics or racist tendencies. I'm mixed race and I'm his half-brother, we got on well."


* I've been searching the web looking for something to back up the one witness who said he heard the killer shout 'Britain First!", but the only source I could find that actually quotes the witness is here, on Britain First's own site:

https://www.britainfirst.org/first-e...-at-the-scene/

Here's another site with refuting evidence:

http://beforeitsnews.com/eu/2016/06/...t-2606280.html


About being personal, it's because you can't see your own racist double standards. It seems like you want this event to be labelled as a terrorist event, despite scant evidence of that, because the killer is white. But that the Orlando shootings should not be labelled as a terrorist event, despite a lot of evidence, because the killer was brown skinned and Muslim.
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  #1869  
Old 17.06.2016, 12:20
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Re: A shooting just happened in ( *fill in the blank * )

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Was Lee Harvey Oswald a terrorist?

What about Gavrilo Princip?
They were both assassins. They both exclusively targeted the head of state.

Princip (with the piercing blue eyes) could also be described as a freedom fighter because his political aim was to have his homeland released from the tyranny of an occupying nation.


I don't believe we will ever know the truth about Oswald. The version that makes the most logical sense to me, and which is a work of 'fiction', is laid out in James Ellroy's 'American Tabloid' trilogy.
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  #1870  
Old 17.06.2016, 12:37
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Re: A shooting just happened in ( *fill in the blank * )

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They were both assassins. They both exclusively targeted the head of state.

Princip (with the piercing blue eyes) could also be described as a freedom fighter because his political aim was to have his homeland released from the tyranny of an occupying nation.
It's actually more complicatzed than that as Princip was a Serbian and Serbia was independent at the time, so strictly speaking he wasn't fighting for the freedom of his own country. Serbian nationalists were seeking to liberate the other south-Slavic nations still under Ottoman or Habsburg rule in pursuing a Serbia-centric pan-Yugoslav nationalism. A theme that was perpetuated by Serbian leadership until very recent times.

But anway, an assisination need not be directed at a head of state but can take out any significant individual. The assasination of Lord Mountbatten by the IRA was an assasination, right?
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  #1871  
Old 17.06.2016, 12:49
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Re: A shooting just happened in ( *fill in the blank * )

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About being personal, it's because you can't see your own racist double standards. It seems like you want this event to be labelled as a terrorist event, despite scant evidence of that, because the killer is white. But that the Orlando shootings should not be labelled as a terrorist event, despite a lot of evidence, because the killer was brown skinned and Muslim.
I think it's more about consistency, if a muslim is inflamed by IS propaganda, he's a terrorist, but if the killer is white and inflamed by right wing propaganda, he's a mentally ill loner.

It's starting to come out the brit shooter was a member of several right wing sites, who of course deny all responsibility. Britain first runs training camps, including knife courses.
http://www.walesonline.co.uk/news/wa...ivist-11474970

He subscribed to an american neo nazi site that provided materials on how to build guns and explosives (https://www.splcenter.org/hatewatch/...ional-alliance).
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  #1872  
Old 17.06.2016, 12:51
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Re: A shooting just happened in ( *fill in the blank * )

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Then you must have some insight that the West Yorkshire police don't. Name his political motives plus evidence.
Well they're hardly going to say anything whilst he's still being interviewed, are they?!!!
The anti-terrorism police are present but are not currently leading the investigation. If the need arises, they will step in. I find it highly unlikely, but in a case such as this, they will always be present during the initial investigation. That is a matter of course.


The anti-nazi organisations immediately put a shout out on public media asking if divisions in the north had his name on file. 8 results came up going back over at least a decade. Looking at the nature of the websites this person is a member of, and I won't post links to any of them here for obvious reasons, you would have to have your head firmly buried in the sand to not recognise he has an active interest in far right politics and issues.

I had to ask my OH about some of the S.A. issues that Mair appeared to have an interest in. My OH was appalled and is getting really sick and disgusted with people who had no connection with apartheid, alligning themselves with that regime and trying to glorify it. First was Dylann Roof who killed the people in Charleston and now Mair.

http://www.independent.co.uk/news/pe...-a7086426.html
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  #1873  
Old 17.06.2016, 13:06
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Re: A shooting just happened in ( *fill in the blank * )

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It's starting to come out the brit shooter was a member of several right wing sites, who of course deny all responsibility.
I'm not sure what it means to be a member of a website?

A forum member maybe?
Or did he just have that website in his browser bookmarks?

I have lots of bookmarks to sites that I don't particularly agree with. I get spam mail from people I don't at all agree with. I've watched YouTube videos by people I totally disagree with. In some cases I went there not because I agree but because I want to know what's going on or just because I want to hear the other side of an argument. I don't think you can judge a person's character or motivation by what websites he looks at.
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  #1874  
Old 17.06.2016, 13:08
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Re: A shooting just happened in ( *fill in the blank * )

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But anway, an assisination need not be directed at a head of state but can take out any significant individual. The assasination of Lord Mountbatten by the IRA was an assasination, right?
That one was a double whammy.

The assassination of a member of the Royal family, perpetrated and claimed by a recognised terrorist organisation. So it's a terrorist assassination.
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  #1875  
Old 17.06.2016, 13:10
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I don't think you can judge a person's character or motivation by what websites he looks at.
He actively contributed to them and was on the attendee list of at least one event. This will all come out in the fullness of time.
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  #1876  
Old 17.06.2016, 13:11
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Re: A shooting just happened in ( *fill in the blank * )

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I'm not sure what it means to be a member of a website?

A forum member maybe?
Or did he just have that website in his browser bookmarks?

I have lots of bookmarks to sites that I don't particularly agree with. I get spam mail from people I don't at all agree with. I don't think you can judge a person's character or motivation by what websites he looks at.
Active subscriber who paid money to sites.
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  #1877  
Old 17.06.2016, 13:17
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Re: A shooting just happened in ( *fill in the blank * )

Mentally ill loners sure seem to share similar online communities

https://www.theguardian.com/world/20...rmfront-report
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  #1878  
Old 17.06.2016, 13:23
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Re: A shooting just happened in ( *fill in the blank * )

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Mentally ill loners sure seem to share similar online communities

https://www.theguardian.com/world/20...rmfront-report
I spent years dealing with those scum sucking ingrates when I was a mod on a US political website. They were universally banned from the site, but we still spent several hours a day deleting their members and their posts. I manned the site from 8am-2pm GMT and this time window was peak for them.
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Old 17.06.2016, 13:31
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Re: A shooting just happened in ( *fill in the blank * )

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The store owners notified the FBI but nothing came of it.
Of course - they're too busy analyzing all the data that comes in via FISA warrants and NSLs.

As pointed out by Snowden and countless others before him: less sig-int and more gumshoe-work would do a hell of a lot more for Homeland Security than trying to suck-in, process and analyze all the communications data and meta-data of the world.

That said, a secure and peaceful world would be a nightmare for warmongers and weapons' dealers - on either side.
After all, who honestly believes the likes of Hezbollah bomb-makers and ISIS executioners could somehow thrive in any normal job in a post-war scenario?
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  #1880  
Old 17.06.2016, 14:22
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Re: A shooting just happened in ( *fill in the blank * )

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After all, who honestly believes the likes of Hezbollah bomb-makers and ISIS executioners could somehow thrive in any normal job in a post-war scenario?
But do you include it on your CV??

"What makes you so suitable for working in our abattoir?"
"I spent 2 years as an ISIS executioner"
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