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  #321  
Old 28.05.2020, 09:45
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Re: Boris Johnson for PM?

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the uk govt should be concentrating on getting the 8.5 million people on furlough safely back to work,
ftfy
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  #322  
Old 28.05.2020, 10:08
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Re: Boris Johnson for PM?

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By all means have another talking head give the government perspective but Maitlis had a right to state the blindingly obvious, otherwise it looks like a Banana Republic state broadcaster that plays military marching music whilst rioters burn the city down.
Thank you for you post, Castro. And I totally agree with you on this one.


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The fact that a couple of people sitting on their couches safely here think that he could have done a better job, me inclduded - I think he could have. But all governments could have, every one of them.
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Absolutely.

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ftfy
This.
Safely returning back to work. It would be silly to argue against this. IMO

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This is so true. French BMF TV has pointed out the overbearing push in media to infantilize...the "Let me break it out for you, confused media consumer" attitude which is starting to enrage people. What people need to understand (and do understand) in general is not really that complicated.
True, but I suppose they too feed a need of some sort.

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  #323  
Old 28.05.2020, 10:33
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Re: Boris Johnson for PM?

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Safely returning back to work. It would be silly to argue against this. IMO

The employers have the guidelines to follow, they should/can not willfully be negligent.
The employees, and also as general citizens, need to follow the guidelines and take personal responsibility for themselves and their colleagues in the workplace.

If both sides of this equation take all the steps reasonably possible, and still a 'safe' environment is not possible or reasonable in the eyes of the employee, they need to resign and find something else.

But anyway, we can chew the fat forever over this and never agree.
Push is coming to shove though, people need to get back to work, in a safe environment, obviously.
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  #324  
Old 28.05.2020, 10:40
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Re: Boris Johnson for PM?

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The employers have the guidelines to follow, they should/can not willfully be negligent.
The employees, and also as general citizens, need to follow the guidelines and take personal responsibility for themselves and their colleagues in the workplace.

If both sides of this equation take all the steps reasonably possible, and still a 'safe' environment is not possible or reasonable in the eyes of the employee, they need to resign and find something else.

But anyway, we can chew the fat forever over this and never agree.
Push is coming to shove though, people need to get back to work, in a safe environment, obviously.
Whether the safety is followed here is not only a question of gov control, but trade unions also checking if the gov guidance are being followed. It is not seen as a politicized issue here at all. There are gov inspectors in place, too, and that is being reported in media. I bet that will show up in the UK media too, hopefully? It makes people less stressed about coming back to work and resuming professional life.
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  #325  
Old 28.05.2020, 10:48
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Re: Boris Johnson for PM?

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Whether the safety is followed here is not only a question of gov control, but trade unions also checking if the gov guidance are being followed. It is not seen as a politicized issue here at all. There are gov inspectors in place, too, and that is being reported in media. I bet that will show up in the UK media too, hopefully? It makes people less stressed about coming back to work and resuming professional life.
I don't know about inspectors making me less stressed, it doesn't matter what they're inspecting, I end up nervous.
What happens if they find that the conditions are not right? Do they shut down the company for a bit or send everyone home?
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  #326  
Old 28.05.2020, 11:14
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Re: Boris Johnson for PM?

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I don't know about inspectors making me less stressed, it doesn't matter what they're inspecting, I end up nervous.
What happens if they find that the conditions are not right? Do they shut down the company for a bit or send everyone home?
There is a protocol for that, which imho will not differ from any other issue related to safety at workplace, CV or not. We only got used to the idea of absolute minimum risk environment past decade or two, really. But whether it is true reality is another question.

It is also good to see it in the perspective of how others are coping, they have to think about multiple members of a household meeting with many people daily, public transport, stores, service oriented jobs... A single person living alone driving himself to the office and back working with trace-able colleagues is imho the smallest risk exposure. And one can manage the exposure, limit it. What also adds to minimizing risk is personal health and taking responsibility for it. I get that people feel nervous, me too. But I gotta keep it away from that affecting the feeling of normalcy that people around me need more than me. Media and local TV have never been better in humor than now, it helps
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  #327  
Old 28.05.2020, 13:16
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Re: Boris Johnson for PM?

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The Beeb is a public service broadcaster which tends to attract those with a more socialist bent. The pay is not exactly great so those that want the top dollars work for ITV, Sky et al. Secondly it requires super human levels of impartiality to not be critical of this government, everything from the debacle of proroguing parliament to the cack-handed handling of COVID-19 has shown the Tories up as being unfit for office. That Labour has been equally unfit is beside the point, its the sad state of our politics and I would expect the BBC to reflect that without fear or favour.

By all means have another talking head give the government perspective but Maitlis had a right to state the blindingly obvious, otherwise it looks like a Banana Republic state broadcaster that plays military marching music whilst rioters burn the city down.
The BBC is a tax funded service that has a contract with its tax payers to remain impartial. What Emily Maitlis said was editorial grandstanding. Look at the opening "Dominic Cummings broke the rules, the country can see that...". Until the police arrest or fine Mr Cummings, this is merely a viewpoint and not fact. "The country can see that" is also a stretch and implies that she is speaking for the entire country, which obviously isn't the case.

If Ms Maitlis want's to move in this direction then she has the talent and profile to take the money on offer and move over to ITV or Sky News.
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  #328  
Old 28.05.2020, 13:30
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Re: Boris Johnson for PM?

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It was indeed.

https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&sour...=1590595187520

Interesting paper linked about language use for folk who might be interested. Is irrelevant to BoJo so content warning.
A scientific study worth that term would have considered the positive language as well, and not just on females but males, too. Given that only derogative language against women is looked for, which obviously exists, there can only be one conclusion.

Your link is propaganda with the only intention to confirm the feminist authors' own prejudices and biases. In a fundamental sense it's sexist itself.
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  #329  
Old 28.05.2020, 16:41
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Re: Boris Johnson for PM?

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A scientific study worth that term would have considered the positive language as well, and not just on females but males, too. Given that only derogative language against women is looked for, which obviously exists, there can only be one conclusion.

Your link is propaganda with the only intention to confirm the feminist authors' own prejudices and biases. In a fundamental sense it's sexist itself.

Awww, I though the thread got cleared up. Could we possibly stay on topic on anything these days?
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  #330  
Old 28.05.2020, 17:01
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Re: Boris Johnson for PM?

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The BBC is a tax funded service that has a contract with its tax payers to remain impartial. What Emily Maitlis said was editorial grandstanding. Look at the opening "Dominic Cummings broke the rules, the country can see that...". Until the police arrest or fine Mr Cummings, this is merely a viewpoint and not fact. "The country can see that" is also a stretch and implies that she is speaking for the entire country, which obviously isn't the case.

If Ms Maitlis want's to move in this direction then she has the talent and profile to take the money on offer and move over to ITV or Sky News.
Why would she do that when she can pretend to speak for the nation on a national TV. It gives an air of different credibility, innit. Unfortunately, it does not automatically come with integrity. I am not sure if it is easy to see, for those who agree with her personal opinion and her using it as political campaigning. She should not be taking the liberty to present it as national news. It is worse than CNN where anything is a free game. It is disappointing.
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  #331  
Old 28.05.2020, 17:05
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Re: Boris Johnson for PM?

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Awww, I though the thread got cleared up. Could we possibly stay on topic on anything these days?
Applies to both or none. I don't care which it is as long as it's the same for both.
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  #332  
Old 28.05.2020, 17:07
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Re: Boris Johnson for PM?

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Applies to both or none. I don't care which it is as long as it's the same for both.
I know, I just think these discussions about feminism should belong to another thread.

I am well aware not everyone supports feminism or is interested in feminism, don't see why being a woman has anything to do with some topics here.
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  #333  
Old 28.05.2020, 17:13
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Re: Boris Johnson for PM?

Durham Police issued a statement.


"Had a Durham Constabulary police officer stopped Mr Cummings driving to or from Barnard Castle, the officer would have spoken to him, and, having established the facts, likely advised Mr Cummings to return to the address in Durham, providing advice on the dangers of travelling during the pandemic crisis. Had this advice been accepted by Mr Cummings, no enforcement action would have been taken"


I'm not sure why the police have been drawn into the media speculation.


Anyway, that seems to be the end of that. DC survives, with Maitlis providing some of the deflection. Wonderful.

Last edited by CodPeace; 28.05.2020 at 17:30. Reason: a bit more
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  #334  
Old 28.05.2020, 17:16
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Re: Boris Johnson for PM?

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The BBC is a tax funded service that has a contract with its tax payers to remain impartial. What Emily Maitlis said was editorial grandstanding. Look at the opening "Dominic Cummings broke the rules, the country can see that...". Until the police arrest or fine Mr Cummings, this is merely a viewpoint and not fact. "The country can see that" is also a stretch and implies that she is speaking for the entire country, which obviously isn't the case.

If Ms Maitlis want's to move in this direction then she has the talent and profile to take the money on offer and move over to ITV or Sky News.
There is a social media storm against Maitlis.
BBC 'receives EIGHTEEN THOUSAND complaints' over Emily Maitlis' 'impartial' rant about Dominic Cummings

I wonder how many questions there'll be in the daily briefing about this?
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  #335  
Old 28.05.2020, 17:35
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Re: Boris Johnson for PM?

Since when were facts better than opinion as news material ?

Opinion costs nothing to print or broadcast, facts used to have to come from reliable sources and/or be checked out. That seems to have gone out the window long ago.

Maitlis is the problem?? Nice diversion tactic.
The problem is BoJo and Cummings. Until they go, the UK is going to keep on digging a bigger and bigger hole.
Now that is opinion -why not present it on the BBC?
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  #336  
Old 28.05.2020, 17:52
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Re: Boris Johnson for PM?

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The BBC is a tax funded service that has a contract with its tax payers to remain impartial. What Emily Maitlis said was editorial grandstanding. Look at the opening "Dominic Cummings broke the rules, the country can see that...". Until the police arrest or fine Mr Cummings, this is merely a viewpoint and not fact. "The country can see that" is also a stretch and implies that she is speaking for the entire country, which obviously isn't the case.

If Ms Maitlis want's to move in this direction then she has the talent and profile to take the money on offer and move over to ITV or Sky News.
From the BBC web site
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The BBC’s Charter and Agreement requires BBC journalism to be impartial, that does not rule out reporting what is controversial.
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  #337  
Old 28.05.2020, 17:59
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Re: Boris Johnson for PM?

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From the BBC web site
Reporting is one thing, being judge & jury is something else.
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  #338  
Old 28.05.2020, 17:59
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Re: Boris Johnson for PM?

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Durham Police issued a statement.


"Had a Durham Constabulary police officer stopped Mr Cummings driving to or from Barnard Castle, the officer would have spoken to him, and, having established the facts, likely advised Mr Cummings to return to the address in Durham, providing advice on the dangers of travelling during the pandemic crisis. Had this advice been accepted by Mr Cummings, no enforcement action would have been taken"

I'm not sure why the police have been drawn into the media speculation.

Anyway, that seems to be the end of that. DC survives, with Maitlis providing some of the deflection. Wonderful.
That is not the end of anything.
The role of the police is to collect evidence not to decide if an offence was committed; that decision is the role of the Courts of Law.
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  #339  
Old 28.05.2020, 18:01
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Re: Boris Johnson for PM?

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That is not the end of anything.
The role of the police is to collect evidence not to decide if an offence was committed; that decision is the role of the Courts of Law.
There is a fixed penalty for this offence £60 reduced to £30 if paid within 2 weeks, it's not something for a court of law
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  #340  
Old 28.05.2020, 18:05
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Re: Boris Johnson for PM?

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Why would she do that when she can pretend to speak for the nation on a national TV. It gives an air of different credibility, innit. Unfortunately, it does not automatically come with integrity. I am not sure if it is easy to see, for those who agree with her personal opinion and her using it as political campaigning. She should not be taking the liberty to present it as national news. It is worse than CNN where anything is a free game. It is disappointing.
This is what is so bad about it, even if 90% of the country did hold those views the BBC STILL has to be impartial. Sevindly, as the statement from the police highlights, it is not clear if any rules were broken.

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Since when were facts better than opinion as news material ?

Opinion costs nothing to print or broadcast, facts used to have to come from reliable sources and/or be checked out. That seems to have gone out the window long ago.

Maitlis is the problem?? Nice diversion tactic.
The problem is BoJo and Cummings. Until they go, the UK is going to keep on digging a bigger and bigger hole.
Now that is opinion -why not present it on the BBC?
Maitlis herself isn’t the problem, but she does represent the wider problem with the media. This has been nothing short of a disgrace, a witch hunt to get a man fired for what turns out to have been nothing.
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