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  #21  
Old 20.09.2012, 16:39
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Re: What are we achieving in Afghanistan?

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long term - nothing, short term- a little bit more
Its hard to tell what the progress is if you have never been there. the news can be very contradictory
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  #22  
Old 20.09.2012, 17:34
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Re: What are we achieving in Afghanistan?

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North Korea and Somalia fair enough - these at cataclysmically failed states. Somalia has been warned by the US that its becoming an Al Qaeda training ground and they will do the same there if it progresses. Syria, Iran, these are bad but are they really as bad as the Taleban ?
...
Now that's a good question I don't see all the strings, as anybody else from normal citizens, but al-qaeda has no longer bases there. Neighbouring Pakistan yes, so does Somalia, Yemen and maybe some other places. Even Osama is over. No reason to stay there. There will always be somebody from locals or neighours pi**ed off because US is in their home country (who wouldn't be?), and they will attack. 3000 US citizens dies, but how many afghan civilians need to die to make it equal? is 100 000 not enough? 200k will do it? Anyway afghan civils don't have anything to do with that attack, so I see no reason to punish them. What cannot be won cannot be won, accept defeat, call it victory, move home, leave them alone.
So rather I would say what NOT to do: stay there, the only ones having benefit from this are people making money in weapons & military equipment, and contracting companies for US government. They create some jobs, but at what costs...
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Old 20.09.2012, 17:52
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Re: What are we achieving in Afghanistan?

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Its hard to tell what the progress is if you have never been there. the news can be very contradictory
If this helps!My kid, which is in pre deployment training,had a discusson with a young female translater from afghanistan.And she assured him the help from nato forces indeed are making a big different she also thanked him for it
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  #24  
Old 20.09.2012, 18:03
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Re: What are we achieving in Afghanistan?

The US is keeping their heroin addicts messed up and out of the way of their big plans.
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Old 20.09.2012, 18:45
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Re: What are we achieving in Afghanistan?

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The US is keeping their heroin addicts messed up and out of the way of their big plans.
Yes, but there's a lot cheaper and more sinister ways of accomplishing that...
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  #26  
Old 20.09.2012, 19:40
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Re: What are we achieving in Afghanistan?

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I believe we should leave Afghanistan as soon as possible. They don't like us, we are feeding their corruption, it is expensive.
The supply of heroin has not diminished, and why, oh why, are we still there? Good viewpoint here,

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/magazine-19634728
It is the other way round. The western forces are not in Afghanistan to achieve something, but to stop the various opposition groups (usually desribed as THE Taliban) from toppling the government.
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Old 20.09.2012, 20:16
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Re: What are we achieving in Afghanistan?

The prime achievement has been to provide the military supply corporations with massive windfalls and profits other then that the involvment will end up like vietnam it's not a fight that will ever be won. The taliban are too good and the US military dont have the skill to defeat them.
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  #28  
Old 20.09.2012, 20:44
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Re: What are we achieving in Afghanistan?

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The prime achievement has been to provide the military supply corporations with massive windfalls and profits other then that the involvment will end up like vietnam it's not a fight that will ever be won. The taliban are too good and the US military dont have the skill to defeat them.
The Taliban are simply in hiding, and they are not good.

They simply have nothing better to do, and they will kill
a few people by surprise now and again.

The society of Afghanistan is very fractured with many tribes trying
to get power. As soon as the US leaves, Karzai will be out.
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  #29  
Old 21.09.2012, 00:39
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Re: What are we achieving in Afghanistan?

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The prime achievement has been to provide the military supply corporations with massive windfalls and profits other then that the involvment will end up like vietnam it's not a fight that will ever be won. The taliban are too good and the US military dont have the skill to defeat them.
The Taliban aren't that good at all. The US military is operating with kid gloves on. If there were no political or humanitarian concerns, they could go in and simply lay waste to whole regions of the country. Of course, this would be wrong on a number of levels, so they don't...
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  #30  
Old 21.09.2012, 00:48
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Re: What are we achieving in Afghanistan?

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I believe we should leave Afghanistan as soon as possible.
and by "we" you mean?
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  #31  
Old 21.09.2012, 01:48
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Re: What are we achieving in Afghanistan?

Patiently waiting for the rest of the oh-so-knowledgeable rest of the enlightened world to step in when diplomacy fails.
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  #32  
Old 21.09.2012, 06:42
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Re: What are we achieving in Afghanistan?

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The prime achievement has been to provide the military supply corporations with massive windfalls and profits other then that the involvment will end up like vietnam it's not a fight that will ever be won. The taliban are too good and the US military dont have the skill to defeat them.
"The Taliban" cannot be good, as they stopped to exist years ago. They as AN organisation only exist in the press and for some western military commanders. The adversaries of the Karzai are
> on the opposition side a variety of organisations
> within his coalition a variety of provincial rulers who pose as his allies

The various western forces in reality have different aims. The common denominator is to support the Karzai government. To play for time. Because, had the opposition been victorious in the early days of the Karzai government they would have united somehow, but if the Karzai government gets toppled now, those opposition groups will be divided. Of course, Gulbuddin Hekmatyar will again try to take over the leadership

Here the zones of the Western forces

Die Isaf-Zonen in Afghanistan. Besonders hart umkämpft sind der Süden und Osten des Landes. Dort blicken die Menschen folglich wesentlich skeptischer in die Zukunft als im relativ stabilen Norden.

Interesting is to see that the Germans are fairly successful. Possibly exactly because even their officers have their doubts about Western glory and wisdom.

Last edited by Wollishofener; 21.09.2012 at 07:06.
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  #33  
Old 21.09.2012, 09:05
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Re: What are we achieving in Afghanistan?

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The Taliban aren't that good at all. The US military is operating with kid gloves on. If there were no political or humanitarian concerns, they could go in and simply lay waste to whole regions of the country. Of course, this would be wrong on a number of levels, so they don't...
Exactly. The purpose of war is to achieve political objectives, not to waste regions or kill people. And the US goal was to create a US-friendly regime in Afghanistan. It was decided that Afghan forces are supposed to take over and control the whole country by the end of 2014 so that NATO troops could leave. And now with the latest shootings of the NATO trainers the training mission is failing and the whole strategy is collapsing. One can call Taliban “not good at all” but the fact is that after 11 years of war the US is not winning. The US is losing to a bunch of mountain warriors.

Last edited by leonie; 21.09.2012 at 09:25.
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  #34  
Old 21.09.2012, 10:13
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Re: What are we achieving in Afghanistan?

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The US is losing to a bunch of mountain warriors.
As did the Russians, and those before them.

Tom
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Old 21.09.2012, 10:20
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Re: What are we achieving in Afghanistan?

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As did the Russians, and those before them.

Tom
it is called a graveyard of empires for a reason
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  #36  
Old 21.09.2012, 16:24
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Re: What are we achieving in Afghanistan?

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Thank you for posting. Until they equip the Afghan military forces with camouflaged combat fatigues instead of their bright blue overalls, people are going to continue to get hurt.
That's the police force, not the ANA. The ANA wear combat fatigues: https://www.facebook.com/AfghanNationalArmy.ANA.

What we're doing is nation building. It's taking a long time but by 2014 it'll be functional. The army and police have been built from scratch, and training takes a *long* time. But they're able to operate on their own now, or at least lead the operations. In case you haven't noticed, they hold parliamentary elections, have a judiciary, etc now. Also, 2 millions girls are going to school, whereas none were 11 years ago. We all know what a difference educated girls make in a country that's so troubled. More and more villages are rejecting the Taliban because of the problems they bring, they want to protect themselves and be left alone. Kabul is the focus of Western attention, but places like the north east or north west are doing fairly well too. It's just not newsworthy.

As for the green on blue killings, that's putting the joint patrol strategy into question. It will be solved though, it has to be, otherwise the Taliban will use it to the max. Joint training will continue of course, as that's with blanks. The Taliban aren't good fighters, we've reduced the life expectency of the junior to middle commanders down to 3 weeks thanks to superior intelligence & surveillance. They mostly do hide and seek attacks and IEDs, and once every so often a spectacular but not big attack, such as last Friday's on Camp Bastion. And the ANA have no interest in letting the Taliban win.
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  #37  
Old 21.09.2012, 16:54
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Re: What are we achieving in Afghanistan?

Well, their cricketers are getting better.
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  #38  
Old 21.09.2012, 16:56
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Re: What are we achieving in Afghanistan?

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And I am now wondering about HOW did Orson Welles`s fantasy come to him, in 1949, to write that book "1984" .... it is just SO like America today!
Orson Welles didn't write 1984. And the guy who did write it wasn't American.
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Old 21.09.2012, 16:57
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Re: What are we achieving in Afghanistan?

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That's a tough one. As a woman, I want someone to protect the female population in Afghanistan. The women and children seem to be the victims in all of this. Isn't there a way to spray their crops to make men impotent?
Uh? They export their crops you know, much of it in the form of white powder to the USA.
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  #40  
Old 21.09.2012, 17:00
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Re: What are we achieving in Afghanistan?

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Orson Welles didn't write 1984. And the guy who did write it wasn't American.
And I believe it was written in 1948, no?
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