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Old 17.11.2012, 23:46
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Re: Is Mr Netanyahu right ?

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According to the Koran, a Muslim will want the Jewish people to have their own state in the Holy Land and to live with them as brothers. It is a good thing for the Jews to be there. The Koran and Torah agree that this must happen peacefully.


http://www.radicalislam.org/analysis/aylin-kocaman-islamism-pure-biogtry









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""Had Islam not come along, Jewry in the west would have declined to disappearance and Jewry in the east would have become just another oriental cult

I would like recommend to you to read this article:

THE JEWISH CHRONICLE ONLINE
http://www.thejc.com/comment-and-deb...uslims-do-jews
  #122  
Old 17.11.2012, 23:50
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Re: Is Mr Netanyahu right ?



This video might help clear things up...

The list of peoples:
Prehistoric Man
Canaanite
Egyptian
Assyrian
Israelite
Babylonian/Persian
Macedonian/Greek (Alexander the Great)
Macedonian/Greek (His successors)
The Ptolomys
Seleucid (Rome: Total War anyone?)
Macabee (Along with a priest)
Romans (Caesar, Antony and Cleopatra, Octavian/Augustus and so on)
Byzantine (which was the Eastern half of the Roman Empire prior to fall of Western Empire)
Arab Caliphate (Saladin, Civ IV anyone?)
Crusader
Mamluk of Egypt
Ottoman Turks
Arab
British
Palestinian
Zionist
PLO
Israeli
Hezbollah/Hamas etc.
Death

With some explanation:
http://blog.ninapaley.com/2012/10/01/this-land-is-mine/

Last edited by Wife_of_Porsch; 18.11.2012 at 00:00.
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  #123  
Old 17.11.2012, 23:57
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Re: Is Mr Netanyahu right ?

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I would like recommend to you to read this article:

THE JEWISH CHRONICLE ONLINE
http://www.thejc.com/comment-and-deb...uslims-do-jews
from the article:
Quote:
Political change was partnered by change in the legal status of the Jewish population: although it is not always clear what happened during the Muslim conquests, one thing is certain. The result of the conquests was, by and large, to make the Jews second-class citizens.This should not be misunderstood: to be a second-class citizen was a far better thing to be than not to be a citizen at all. For most of these Jews, second-class citizenship represented a major advance. In Visigothic Spain, for example, shortly before the Muslim conquest in 711, the Jews had seen their children removed from them and forcibly converted to Christianity and had themselves been enslaved.
from the article. i wonder how it would sound if i tried using the same argument about the situation of Arabs in Israel today.

To address the article, jews may have been better off in certain Arab countries than Christian ruled ones, but that doesn't mean that they were saved by Islam. Ashkenazic Jewery did survive despite rough times.
  #124  
Old 18.11.2012, 00:04
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Re: Is Mr Netanyahu right ?

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This video might help clear things up...

The list of peoples:
Prehistoric Man
Canaanite
Egyptian
Assyrian
Israelite
Babylonian/Persian
Macedonian/Greek (Alexander the Great)
Macedonian/Greek (His successors)
The Ptolomys
Seleucid (Rome: Total War anyone?)
Macabee (Along with a priest)
Romans (Caesar, Antony and Cleopatra, Octavian/Augustus and so on)
Byzantine (which was the Eastern half of the Roman Empire prior to fall of Western Empire)
Arab Caliphate (Saladin, Civ IV anyone?)
Crusader
Mamluk of Egypt
Ottoman Turks
Arab
British
Palestinian
Zionist
PLO
Israeli
Hezbollah/Hamas etc.
Death

With some explanation:
http://blog.ninapaley.com/2012/10/01/this-land-is-mine/
note Palestinians were in the land under British rule while this list makes it seem they took over. that didn't happen. also Zionist may come after Palestinians, but the were many continuous Jewish settlements in the land of Israel well before the state of Israel was a concept.
  #125  
Old 18.11.2012, 00:09
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Re: Is Mr Netanyahu right ?

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note Palestinians were in the land under British rule while this list makes it seem they took over. that didn't happen. also Zionist may come after Palestinians, but the were many continuous Jewish settlements in the land of Israel well before the state of Israel was a concept.
That's cool and all. But the Jews weren't there first. Other civilisations were there before. The argument of who was there first is academic.
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  #126  
Old 18.11.2012, 00:25
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Re: Is Mr Netanyahu right ?

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That's cool and all. But the Jews weren't there first. Other civilisations were there before. The argument of who was there first is academic.
and the mistake you are making is separating Palestinian and Jew. before the state of Israel the jews living in that region identified as Palestinians. so "Palestinians" being in Palestine doesn't mean jews were not there.
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  #127  
Old 18.11.2012, 00:34
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Re: Is Mr Netanyahu right ?

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from the article:

from the article. i wonder how it would sound if i tried using the same argument about the situation of Arabs in Israel today.

To address the article, jews may have been better off in certain Arab countries than Christian ruled ones, but that doesn't mean that they were saved by Islam. Ashkenazic Jewery did survive despite rough times.
You can "translate" it in whichever way you wish.

I guess you better know the matter than the author of article? Right? Maybe you should consider to write some authoritative opinion about it.

In addition another one, just to complete picture:

The geography of hate: How anti-Semitism in interwar Germany was influenced by the medieval mass murder of Jews
http://www.voxeu.org/article/how-ant...ss-murder-jews

Now, the religion is just "tool" to pit against each other, if not religion than the race or "wrong" name, if not race than ideology, if not that one than sexual orientation, and so on, "they" will find always means and way to make people miserable to pillage them.

Especially if "other them" are having different skin color, than hate toward them is quadrupled. Ask Hitler or Stalin, or Bush and Blair. As for Israel it is just colonial outpost which serves the purpose of imperial hegemony, as such the peace isn't in interest of the master. Situation has to simmer but to boil over.

Have humans learned anything from the past? Unfortunately NO. Ask Anders Breivik.

Will situation happen again, like in above article. Certainly.
  #128  
Old 18.11.2012, 00:36
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Re: Is Mr Netanyahu right ?

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and the mistake you are making is separating Palestinian and Jew. before the state of Israel the jews living in that region identified as Palestinians. so "Palestinians" being in Palestine doesn't mean jews were not there.
Where did I say that a Palestinian can't be a Jew?
  #129  
Old 18.11.2012, 00:41
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Re: Is Mr Netanyahu right ?

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That's cool and all. But the Jews weren't there first. Other civilisations were there before. The argument of who was there first is academic.
This is true that the Jews were not there first...Babylonians, Persians ,greeks, romans,bynzantines, persians again, Saracens, britain, crusaders, Ottomans and the list goes on and on.
  #130  
Old 18.11.2012, 00:45
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Re: Is Mr Netanyahu right ?

After conquering the land in 1272 BC. Jews ruled it for thousands years and maintained a continuous presence for 3300 years

For over 3300 years, Jerusalem was the Jewish capital. It was never the capital of any Arab or Muslim entity.
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  #131  
Old 18.11.2012, 00:46
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Re: Is Mr Netanyahu right ?

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You can "translate" it in whichever way you wish.

I guess you better know the matter than the author of article? Right? Maybe you should consider to write some authoritative opinion about it.

In addition another one, just to complete picture:

The geography of hate: How anti-Semitism in interwar Germany was influenced by the medieval mass murder of Jews
http://www.voxeu.org/article/how-ant...ss-murder-jews

Now, the religion is just "tool" to pit against each other, if not religion than the race or "wrong" name, if not race than ideology, if not that one than sexual orientation, and so on, "they" will find always means and way to make people miserable to pillage them.

Especially if "other them" are having different skin color, than hate toward them is quadrupled. Ask Hitler or Stalin, or Bush and Blair. As for Israel it is just colonial outpost which serves the purpose of imperial hegemony, as such the peace isn't in interest of the master. Situation has to simmer but to boil over.

Have humans learned anything from the past? Unfortunately NO. Ask Anders Breivik.

Will situation happen again, like in above article. Certainly.
hey, I'm entitled to point out my take on an article. that's why you posted it, right? no need to get defensive. its great that jews were allowed to live in Arab countries for many years.

your second link:racial hatred is wrong .i think (hope) we all agree on that.
  #132  
Old 18.11.2012, 01:16
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Re: Is Mr Netanyahu right ?

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After conquering the land in 1272 BC. Jews ruled it for thousands years and maintained a continuous presence for 3300 years

For over 3300 years, Jerusalem was the Jewish capital. It was never the capital of any Arab or Muslim entity.
is it normal to claim it "back" after that long period of time? The land has been invaded and occupied by so many people that it is impossible for any one group to demand it through historical title. Do these Jews have a better right than the Egyptians who were there earlier, or the Muslims who were there longest?
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  #133  
Old 18.11.2012, 01:20
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Re: Is Mr Netanyahu right ?

The Bible, Torah, so on and so forth are books of faith not history. Holy books and their mythological stories are unreliable historical sources; however, some historical outlines may be used in very limited terms. So-called proofs of historical or genealogical significance based on all books of faith are respectfully rejected.
  #134  
Old 18.11.2012, 01:30
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Re: Is Mr Netanyahu right ?

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We all know the palestinian started this war so I don't understand where the "HE WANTED" is coming from. Israel only wants to live in peace. By the way, I don't understand why people post these kind of threads, it's only stiring up the hatred.
As an American I really don't understand why we cannot talk about it without being accused of stirring hatred or, at worst, being accused of being Nazis. I'm not religious and I'm really pretty amused by the idea that Israel is a peaceful nation as I've passed through it on numerous occasions as a single American woman travelling alone. Anyone who has done so understands my point of view here. I gained a lifetime friend once when, in a bar, he confronted me as an American to talk about the Israel issue that is the almost guarantee to shut most Americans up and, when I asked if he was buying the beer, well, we had a nice chat until the wee hours.

I think Wolli is right...as whether or not it will come to pass is another story. I'm all for cutting the cord to Israel and airdropping a whole lotta guns all over the area and letting things take their course since no amount of peace talks has ever done much good. Also, Mr. N got really pissy about Obama giving him a cold shoulder before the election and this may be his way to force his hand. I really think these folks need to settle their dispute on their own and without the US as the only thing the US is interested is Jerusalem since it seems to be the nexus for far too many religions (including Mormons).
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  #135  
Old 18.11.2012, 01:38
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Re: Is Mr Netanyahu right ?

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As an American I really don't understand why we cannot talk about it without being accused of stirring hatred or, at worst, being accused of being Nazis. I'm not religious and I'm really pretty amused by the idea that Israel is a peaceful nation as I've passed through it on numerous occasions as a single American woman travelling alone. Anyone who has done so understands my point of view here. I gained a lifetime friend once when, in a bar, he confronted me as an American to talk about the Israel issue that is the almost guarantee to shut most Americans up and, when I asked if he was buying the beer, well, we had a nice chat until the wee hours.

I think Wolli is right...as whether or not it will come to pass is another story. I'm all for cutting the cord to Israel and airdropping a whole lotta guns all over the area and letting things take their course since no amount of peace talks has ever done much good. Also, Mr. N got really pissy about Obama giving him a cold shoulder before the election and this may be his way to force his hand. I really think these folks need to settle their dispute on their own and without the US as the only thing the US is interested is Jerusalem since it seems to be the nexus for far too many religions (including Mormons).
......................yawn................good night.......................
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  #136  
Old 18.11.2012, 01:53
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Re: Is Mr Netanyahu right ?

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After conquering the land in 1272 BC. Jews ruled it for thousands years and maintained a continuous presence for 3300 years

For over 3300 years, Jerusalem was the Jewish capital. It was never the capital of any Arab or Muslim entity.
Well, I think history here doesn't mean much if all that ever happens there is killing, blame, etc., etc. I'd be all for evacuating Jerusalem and removing it from the face of the earth permanently since all these religions that claim peace do nothing but fight over it. If nobody gets it, problem solved or at least that problem solved. I do think that's the only solution at this point since history gets dragged into every conflict, every skirmish and peace is not a peace at all.
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  #137  
Old 18.11.2012, 11:22
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Re: Is Mr Netanyahu right ?

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Well, I think history here doesn't mean much if all that ever happens there is killing, blame, etc., etc. I'd be all for evacuating Jerusalem and removing it from the face of the earth permanently since all these religions that claim peace do nothing but fight over it. If nobody gets it, problem solved or at least that problem solved. I do think that's the only solution at this point since history gets dragged into every conflict, every skirmish and peace is not a peace at all.
Interesting to hear what the Turkish Islamic scholar Adnan Oktar has to say

http://en.a9.com.tr/
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  #138  
Old 18.11.2012, 11:23
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Re: Is Mr Netanyahu right ?

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"THE" Palestinians do not use babies as shields. You might rather abstain from such rubbish. And Palestinians do NOT teach hatred against America. And as many Palestinians ARE Christians they hardly teach hatred against themselves.
pictures posted above (children suicide bombers ) + +if 2% to 3% of the population is "MANY", I don't think we have the same notion of what many means.
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  #139  
Old 18.11.2012, 11:54
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Re: Is Mr Netanyahu right ?

I am pretty fed up with Arab-Israeli conflict. Each side calling on it's religious ideology to support and justify hostility. It should be feasible to share that land peaceably - if they want. Looks like they love to fight each other .
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Old 18.11.2012, 12:06
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Re: Is Mr Netanyahu right ?

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And as many Palestinians ARE Christians they hardly teach hatred against themselves.
Christians in the West Bank are discriminated against by Muslims, emigration is high. Bethlehem used to be 90% christian and is now predominantly muslim. Today, only four percent of the Arabs in the West Bank are Christian, 0,3 % in Gaza and 10% of Arab Israelis.
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