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  #161  
Old 18.11.2012, 16:23
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Re: Is Mr Netanyahu right ?

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  #162  
Old 18.11.2012, 16:47
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Re: Is Mr Netanyahu right ?

Quote:
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Marillion's new CD's first track is titled "Gaza":


Gaza

When I was young it all seemed like a game
Living here brought no sense of shame
But now I'm older I've come to understand
Once we had houses
Once we had land
They rained down bullets on us as our homes collapsed
We lay beneath the rubble terrified

Hoping.. Dare we dream?
We gave up waiting
For us, to dream is still a dream

When I woke up, the house was broken stones
We suddenly had nothing
And nothing's changed

We live, eight people, in this overcrowded heat
Factory-farmed animals living in our own sweat
Living like this is all my baby brother ever knew
The world does nothing. What can we do?

We will kick the ball
We will skip the rope
We will play outside. Be careful
We will paint and draw. We will say our prayers

Outside the pitiless sun bleaches the broken streets
The darkness drops in the evening like an iron door
The men play cards under torchlight
The women stay inside
Hell can erupt in a moment day or night

You ask for trouble if you stray too close to the wall
My father died ..feeding the birds
Mum goes in front of me to check for soldiers

For every hot-head stone ten come back
For every hot-head stone a hundred come back
For every rocket fired the drones come back

For thirteen years the roads have all been closed
We're isolated. We're denied medical supplies
Fuel and work are scarce. They build houses on our farms
The old men weep. The young men take up arms.

We're packed like chickens in this town of block cement
I get headache from the diesel. When it rains, the sewers too
I had no idea what martyrdom meant
Until my older brother.. my older brother
I'm sorry. I can't continue.

You sow the wind, you reap the whirlwind, it is said
When people know they have no future
Can we blame them if we cannot tame them?
And when their hopes and dreams are broken
And they feel they might as well be dead
As they go, will we forgive them
If they take us with them?

Stay close
Stay home
Stay calm
Have faith

With the love of our family we can rise above anything
Someday surely someone must help us
With the love of our family we can rise above anything
Someday surely someone must help us
Even now we will go to school
Even now we will dream to dream
Someday surely someone must help us

Nothing's ever simple - that's for sure
There are grieving mothers on both sides of the wire
And everyone deserves a chance to feel the future just might be bright
But any way you look at it - whichever point of view
For us to have to live like this
It just aint right
It just aint right
It just aint right

We all want peace and freedom that's for sure
But peace won't come from standing on our necks
Everyone deserves a chance to feel the future just might be bright
But any way you look at this - whichever point of view
For us to have to live like this
It just aint right
It just aint right
It just aint right

It's like a nightmare rose up slouching towards Bethlehem
Like a nightmare rose up from this small strip of land
Slouching towards Bethlehem

It's like a nightmare rose up from this small strip of land
Slouching towards Bethlehem

Stay close
Stay home
Have faith

I can't know what twist of history did this to me
It's like a nightmare

With the love of our family
We can rise above anything
Some day surely someone must help us...
In the last 4 days 99 rockets that were fired from Gaza crashed back into Gaza. Hamas fires from civilian areas...and hits its own people.
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  #163  
Old 18.11.2012, 17:06
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Re: Is Mr Netanyahu right ?

Quote:
View Post
Marillion's new CD's first track is titled "Gaza":


Gaza

When I was young it all seemed like a game
Living here brought no sense of shame
But now I'm older I've come to understand
Once we had houses
Once we had land
They rained down bullets on us as our homes collapsed
We lay beneath the rubble terrified

Hoping.. Dare we dream?
We gave up waiting
For us, to dream is still a dream

When I woke up, the house was broken stones
We suddenly had nothing
And nothing's changed

We live, eight people, in this overcrowded heat
Factory-farmed animals living in our own sweat
Living like this is all my baby brother ever knew
The world does nothing. What can we do?

We will kick the ball
We will skip the rope
We will play outside. Be careful
We will paint and draw. We will say our prayers

Outside the pitiless sun bleaches the broken streets
The darkness drops in the evening like an iron door
The men play cards under torchlight
The women stay inside
Hell can erupt in a moment day or night

You ask for trouble if you stray too close to the wall
My father died ..feeding the birds
Mum goes in front of me to check for soldiers

For every hot-head stone ten come back
For every hot-head stone a hundred come back
For every rocket fired the drones come back

For thirteen years the roads have all been closed
We're isolated. We're denied medical supplies
Fuel and work are scarce. They build houses on our farms
The old men weep. The young men take up arms.

We're packed like chickens in this town of block cement
I get headache from the diesel. When it rains, the sewers too
I had no idea what martyrdom meant
Until my older brother.. my older brother
I'm sorry. I can't continue.

You sow the wind, you reap the whirlwind, it is said
When people know they have no future
Can we blame them if we cannot tame them?
And when their hopes and dreams are broken
And they feel they might as well be dead
As they go, will we forgive them
If they take us with them?

Stay close
Stay home
Stay calm
Have faith

With the love of our family we can rise above anything
Someday surely someone must help us
With the love of our family we can rise above anything
Someday surely someone must help us
Even now we will go to school
Even now we will dream to dream
Someday surely someone must help us

Nothing's ever simple - that's for sure
There are grieving mothers on both sides of the wire
And everyone deserves a chance to feel the future just might be bright
But any way you look at it - whichever point of view
For us to have to live like this
It just aint right
It just aint right
It just aint right

We all want peace and freedom that's for sure
But peace won't come from standing on our necks
Everyone deserves a chance to feel the future just might be bright
But any way you look at this - whichever point of view
For us to have to live like this
It just aint right
It just aint right
It just aint right

It's like a nightmare rose up slouching towards Bethlehem
Like a nightmare rose up from this small strip of land
Slouching towards Bethlehem

It's like a nightmare rose up from this small strip of land
Slouching towards Bethlehem

Stay close
Stay home
Have faith

I can't know what twist of history did this to me
It's like a nightmare

With the love of our family
We can rise above anything
Some day surely someone must help us...
Quote:
View Post
There is something about this conflict...I mean, what was the plane of Hamas ? Hamas leaders knew the aren't able to protect Gazaz...Also why did they launch missiles ?

In my opinion, Iranian missiles are a false-flag...
My guess there sick and tired of Kicking balls and skiping rope Wille I can go to the grey cup
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  #164  
Old 18.11.2012, 20:09
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Re: Is Mr Netanyahu right ?

I would not say this is the whole and only truth, but it does have some point:

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  #165  
Old 18.11.2012, 21:07
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Re: Is Mr Netanyahu right ?

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I would not say this is the whole and only truth, but it does have some point:

old news!

I like this http://gulfnews.com/opinions/columni...lems-1.1106659
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  #166  
Old 18.11.2012, 21:13
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Re: Is Mr Netanyahu right ?

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There is something about this conflict...I mean, what was the plane of Hamas ? Hamas leaders knew the aren't able to protect Gazaz...Also why did they launch missiles ?

In my opinion, Iranian missiles are a false-flag...
This strikes a chord for me. I have to say I do not understand what is happening-

In my simple way & in my life I try to set myself targets & objectives & then create plans to achieve these.

I have no clue why Hamas launches rockets into Israel; what is the purpose?

If it is to kill people then it is a useless strategy; published figures are 600 rockets launched & 3 people killed - of course tragic for those involved & their family & friends.
So what is the rocket launching about? Does Hamas think if they launch enough rockets then the Israelis will say - "enough is enough we will pack up & go"; this seems a very unlikely scenario?

Eventually the Israelis get fed up with the incoming rockets & launch a major attack on Gaza. In the course of this they kill many more people than died in Israel. They are not able to target all Hamas people because most of them are anonymous & do not conveniently wear uniforms or other identification. Every time Israelis kill someone they generate one or more people looking for revenge & who are likely to join terrorist groups.

Whole thing is one big mess.....

Maybe Hamas see rocket launching & Israeli reprisals as a recruiting program. ??
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  #167  
Old 18.11.2012, 21:35
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Re: Is Mr Netanyahu right ?

I suppose that is not too far from the truth, the more dead civilians and gory pictures of dead kids on the news resulting from Israeli air strikes, the more world opinion turns against Israel.
An Israeli ground attack into Gaza and the subsequent carnage would be the moslem world's wettest dream, the western liberal politicians would be screeching anti Israeli mordio like a cartoon elephant in a tutu at a mouse and maybe Washington would be hesitant to bail Israel out, again, in short there is a potential to really hurt Israel and all at the cost of a few Pals.
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  #168  
Old 18.11.2012, 21:36
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Re: Is Mr Netanyahu right ?

[QUOTE=marton;1720163]This strikes a chord for me. I have to say I do not understand what is happening-

In my simple way & in my life I try to set myself targets & objectives & then create plans to achieve these.

I have no clue why Hamas launches rockets into Israel; what is the purpose?

If it is to kill people then it is a useless strategy; published figures are 600 rockets launched & 3 people killed - of course tragic for those involved & their family & friends.
So what is the rocket launching about? Does Hamas think if they launch enough rockets then the Israelis will say - "enough is enough we will pack up & go"; this seems a very unlikely scenario?

Eventually the Israelis get fed up with the incoming rockets & launch a major attack on Gaza. In the course of this they kill many more people than died in Israel. They are not able to target all Hamas people because most of them are anonymous & do not conveniently wear uniforms or other identification. Every time Israelis kill someone they generate one or more people looking for revenge & who are likely to join terrorist groups.

Whole thing is one big mess.....

Maybe Hamas see rocket launching & Israeli reprisals as a recruiting program. ??[/QUOT



The hamas side does this to get world attention ,the same as the PLO under yassar arafat .Otherwise israel would have swallowed half the middle east
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Last edited by cannut; 19.11.2012 at 14:36.
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  #169  
Old 18.11.2012, 21:54
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Re: Is Mr Netanyahu right ?

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I suppose that is not too far from the truth, the more dead civilians and gory pictures of dead kids on the news resulting from Israeli air strikes, the more world opinion turns against Israel.
An Israeli ground attack into Gaza and the subsequent carnage would be the moslem world's wettest dream, the western liberal politicians would be screeching anti Israeli mordio like a cartoon elephant in a tutu at a mouse and maybe Washington would be hesitant to bail Israel out, again, in short there is a potential to really hurt Israel and all at the cost of a few Pals.
About "the more world opinion turns against Israel"
But eventually so what? Zambia is, for example, not well regarded but so what. They still do what they want.

Washington supports Israel because it gets votes; nothing to do with world opinion
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  #170  
Old 18.11.2012, 22:06
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Re: Is Mr Netanyahu right ?

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You should know who is fighting for what, that's the problem, ignorant people speak about something they don't know and don't understand. Israel has the right to exist, didn't steal anything from anyone, they were the first to be there and won't let anyone attack its people. Instead of using the millions of dollars they receive from the whole world and from israel (they are too kind, really) to educate its people, evolve, they use it for terrorism and fighting for something that doesn't belong to them
Yea right!
http://www.usbible.com/War/StolePalestine.htm
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  #171  
Old 18.11.2012, 22:25
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Re: Is Mr Netanyahu right ?

Till I heard that silly guy from Prager Uni I never realized how stupid "Izreal" sounds in English ...


However, I think the whole thing is even much easier, and an acceptable solution isn't difficult either.

Who cares about land in a service-based economy, who cares about people who think to be the instrument of God, to be the only to speak and act in the name of the Tanach, the Quran and holy here holy there, old stones and all that stuff;

this is not the point (even Hamas is not that ideologically corrupt to think that), or if it is, it's that one of a slight minority.

What is important is to improve live quality, freedom and civil rights.

Problem there is that the more far a 2-state-solution goes, the less Israel could influence that process. On the other hand, there have been decades when Israel had the power to reinstate law and right also among the West Bank.

However Israel needs a partner to be chosen from PLO, Hamas, the Arab neighbor dictatorships or ex-dictatorships, maybe after Hamas is weakened, some Salafists. One of its strategic principles till yesterday has been "Divide et impera" which did pay out till a certain point but has gaps big as a battleship.
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  #172  
Old 18.11.2012, 23:32
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Re: Is Mr Netanyahu right ?

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About "the more world opinion turns against Israel"
But eventually so what? Zambia is, for example, not well regarded but so what. They still do what they want.

Washington supports Israel because it gets votes; nothing to do with world opinion
Yes but Zambia is not in the world focus and never will be unless they start chopping each other to bits with panga's and only then on a slow news night. The human development fact book states it is 164th in the 187 countries counted, Israel is 17th by the way, I agree with you that the Israel question gets the votes in the US, but staying with the Zambia example Zambia has not the same scale of clout to determine future world history as Israel can. A reduction of US and western support will mean that the Arab/Moslem world may think that they can get away with a even more aggressive stance to Israel. Then, when Israel hits back they will hit back hard, maybe nuclear hard and we don't want that do we?
  #173  
Old 19.11.2012, 01:35
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Re: Is Mr Netanyahu right ?

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There is something about this conflict...I mean, what was the plane of Hamas ? Hamas leaders knew the aren't able to protect Gazaz...Also why did they launch missiles ?

In my opinion, Iranian missiles are a false-flag...
The Hamas leadership heard the news or rumours about the intention of Netanyahu to send the Israeli Army into the Gaza Territory and wanted to preempt that move.
  #174  
Old 19.11.2012, 01:38
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Re: Is Mr Netanyahu right ?

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In the last 4 days 99 rockets that were fired from Gaza crashed back into Gaza. Hamas fires from civilian areas...and hits its own people.
There is NO "non-civilian area" in the Gaza Territory
  #175  
Old 19.11.2012, 01:55
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Re: Is Mr Netanyahu right ?

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I suppose that is not too far from the truth, the more dead civilians and gory pictures of dead kids on the news resulting from Israeli air strikes, the more world opinion turns against Israel.
An Israeli ground attack into Gaza and the subsequent carnage would be the moslem world's wettest dream, the western liberal politicians would be screeching anti Israeli mordio like a cartoon elephant in a tutu at a mouse and maybe Washington would be hesitant to bail Israel out, again, in short there is a potential to really hurt Israel and all at the cost of a few Pals.
And this is what most liekly is what Netanyahu has in mind. He could see how Mr Olmert cut short his attack against Hamas/Gaza under pressure from the world, and finally lost out in every way. He in a shrewd way lured Hamas into a full scale confrontation. He made sure that Hamas launched the first missile attacks in this conflict. He now simply waits for the first really serious incident which he then will use in full. And let's face the truth and that is that Israel is in deadly danger as long as Hamas is ruling the Gaza Territory. Hamas rule is too close to Tel Aviv, Jerusalem, Beersheva to be tolerated in a longer term.

Netanyahu waited until AFTER the USA elections, and he as being a US American citizen knows US politics well enough to sell his position efficiently
  #176  
Old 19.11.2012, 04:40
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Re: Is Mr Netanyahu right ?

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I would not say this is the whole and only truth, but it does have some point:

Funny video and funny "university". Wondering, are you member of Flat Earth Society?

Just quick search for that guy give us this:

Quote:
"The University's mission statement claims it aims to create a better understanding and appreciation of the American Judeo-Christian value system by leveraging the viral power of the Internet."
Of course, what else is new? I am impresed by their mission. Look at this "by leveraging the viral power of the Internet". Powerful indeed, is there any PowerPoint here? Hello Orwell, there is some Newspeak here!

On serious note, from certain point in my life I became interested in question: where the evil is coming from? If you happened to read some book about political sociopathy, there is word for it: Ponerology http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ponerology. That is what sociopath looks like: charismatic, superficially charming, lier, lack of empathy, manipulative etc.
Give him ten minutes at 8 a clock and he can sell the war in no time to clueless constituent in liberal-democracy aka nation-state.

Quote:
As Prager University is not an accredited university that grants degrees, some claim that the name is misleading.[6] The university has been criticized for emphasizing conservative views in its videos, but many are on non-political topics, like happiness and morality.
Perhaps Joseph Goebbels himself would be envy on this clip. Five minutes topic from Biblical history with falsified facts: omit here, mislead there, and you are done, you are History Major.

Priceless!
  #177  
Old 19.11.2012, 04:57
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Re: Is Mr Netanyahu right ?

Doublespeak is language that pretends to communicate but really doesn't. It is language that makes the bad seem good, the negative appear positive, the unpleasant appear attractive or at least tolerable. Doublespeak is language that avoids of shifts responsibility, language that is at variance with its real or purported meaning. It is language that conceals or prevents thought; rather than extending thought, doublespeak limits it. Doublespeak is not matter of subjects and verbs agreeing; it is a matter of words and facts agreeing. Basic to double speak is incongruity, the incongruity between what is said or left unsaid, and what really is. It is the incongruity between the word and the referent, between seen and be, between the essential function of language-communication-and what doublespeak does-mislead, distort, deceive, inflate, circumvent, obfuscate.
from William D. Lutz, Doublespeak: From "Revenue Enhancement" to "Terminal Living
  #178  
Old 19.11.2012, 09:56
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Re: Is Mr Netanyahu right ?

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Funny video and funny "university". Wondering, are you member of Flat Earth Society?

Just quick search for that guy give us this:



Of course, what else is new? I am impresed by their mission. Look at this "by leveraging the viral power of the Internet". Powerful indeed, is there any PowerPoint here? Hello Orwell, there is some Newspeak here!

On serious note, from certain point in my life I became interested in question: where the evil is coming from? If you happened to read some book about political sociopathy, there is word for it: Ponerology http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ponerology. That is what sociopath looks like: charismatic, superficially charming, lier, lack of empathy, manipulative etc.
Give him ten minutes at 8 a clock and he can sell the war in no time to clueless constituent in liberal-democracy aka nation-state.



Perhaps Joseph Goebbels himself would be envy on this clip. Five minutes topic from Biblical history with falsified facts: omit here, mislead there, and you are done, you are History Major.

Priceless!
That was quite interesting, "the conflict in a nutshell" geared with an easy delivery and so seductive as a pre-digested explanation to the non thinking masses that it must be the right way.
  #179  
Old 19.11.2012, 10:14
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Re: Is Mr Netanyahu right ?

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In the last 4 days 99 rockets that were fired from Gaza crashed back into Gaza. Hamas fires from civilian areas...and hits its own people.
just curious. why the groans on this post? do you disagree, then speak up. or are you just sick of hearing about hamas not being careful with the lives of their civilians?
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  #180  
Old 19.11.2012, 10:21
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Re: Is Mr Netanyahu right ?

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And this is what most liekly is what Netanyahu has in mind. He could see how Mr Olmert cut short his attack against Hamas/Gaza under pressure from the world, and finally lost out in every way. He in a shrewd way lured Hamas into a full scale confrontation. He made sure that Hamas launched the first missile attacks in this conflict. He now simply waits for the first really serious incident which he then will use in full. And let's face the truth and that is that Israel is in deadly danger as long as Hamas is ruling the Gaza Territory. Hamas rule is too close to Tel Aviv, Jerusalem, Beersheva to be tolerated in a longer term.

Netanyahu waited until AFTER the USA elections, and he as being a US American citizen knows US politics well enough to sell his position efficiently
"he in a shrewd way lured Hamas into a full scale confrontation"

"He made sure that Hamas launched the first missile"

would you care to elaborate the quoted please?
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