Go Back   English Forum Switzerland > Off-Topic > Off-Topic > International affairs/politics  
Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
  #21  
Old 09.12.2012, 14:51
Member
 
Join Date: Dec 2012
Location: Zurich
Posts: 195
Groaned at 50 Times in 31 Posts
Thanked 105 Times in 74 Posts
stevesim is considered unworthystevesim is considered unworthystevesim is considered unworthy
Re: Pearl Harbour, 71 years ago ( day of infamy )

the bombs were used to warn off the Soviet Union as well as to end the war with Japan.

The German economic system used to finance the war was untenable, but so were the Allies' systems which were based on colonialism in the case of the UK, France, and the USA.

As for bubbles, many economists, of which I am a part, believe that the capitalistic system is just one big bubble after another and the world economy in the last few decades has definitely provided a few examples of that.

As an American, what I don't like is that many of my fellow countrymen assume that Americans always have Right on their side and that is not the case. The Americans went into WWII fighting with a segregated army and with a country where lynchings of African Americans were still quite common. Not as grave as death camps, but hardly the heroes many in Hollywood make us out to be.
Reply With Quote
  #22  
Old 09.12.2012, 14:53
Newbie
 
Join Date: Dec 2012
Location: Bern Altstadt
Posts: 2
Groaned at 3 Times in 1 Post
Thanked 2 Times in 2 Posts
SwissRoman has become a little unpopular
Re: Pearl Harbour, 71 years ago ( day of infamy )

The whole world was wrong. It took many mistakes to kill so many millions of people. Germany, Spain, Britain, US, Italy, Japan, France, etc.. all played their roles. As in all major conflicts, it is never one sided.
Reply With Quote
  #23  
Old 09.12.2012, 14:55
slammer's Avatar
Forum Legend
 
Join Date: Jul 2009
Location: Lummerland
Posts: 5,334
Groaned at 149 Times in 105 Posts
Thanked 9,289 Times in 3,532 Posts
slammer has a reputation beyond reputeslammer has a reputation beyond reputeslammer has a reputation beyond reputeslammer has a reputation beyond reputeslammer has a reputation beyond reputeslammer has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Pearl Harbour, 71 years ago ( day of infamy )

Quote:
View Post
The atomic bombs were developed with Germany in mind, and not Japan.

However, the European war ended before they could be used, so waste not, want not.

Tom
That is true, the reputed targets were Stuttgart, Frankfurt, Bremen, Other targets were in the eastern part, ahead of the Russian advance.
Reply With Quote
This user would like to thank slammer for this useful post:
  #24  
Old 09.12.2012, 15:16
Jobsrobertsharpii's Avatar
Forum Veteran
 
Join Date: Aug 2011
Location: Z-U-R-I-C-H
Posts: 2,335
Groaned at 173 Times in 124 Posts
Thanked 3,384 Times in 1,536 Posts
Jobsrobertsharpii has a reputation beyond reputeJobsrobertsharpii has a reputation beyond reputeJobsrobertsharpii has a reputation beyond reputeJobsrobertsharpii has a reputation beyond reputeJobsrobertsharpii has a reputation beyond reputeJobsrobertsharpii has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Pearl Harbour, 71 years ago ( day of infamy )

Quote:
View Post
the bombs were used to warn off the Soviet Union as well as to end the war with Japan.

The German economic system used to finance the war was untenable, but so were the Allies' systems which were based on colonialism in the case of the UK, France, and the USA.

As for bubbles, many economists, of which I am a part, believe that the capitalistic system is just one big bubble after another and the world economy in the last few decades has definitely provided a few examples of that.

As an American, what I don't like is that many of my fellow countrymen assume that Americans always have Right on their side and that is not the case. The Americans went into WWII fighting with a segregated army and with a country where lynchings of African Americans were still quite common. Not as grave as death camps, but hardly the heroes many in Hollywood make us out to be.
Yes, there was the motive of warning the Soviets. There was also the motive of denying Stalin a chance to seek revenge for the Russo-Japanese war, given how the Soviets had handled themselves thus far against the Germans (they definitely weren't shining knights). The British and US no longer needed the Soviet Union to enter the war against Japan; Japan was defeated but would not admit defeat.

The German economic system was untenable due in large part to the war debts from the previous war. One of the reasons for WWII in Europe was Germany seeking some means of eliminating this debt and securing its own economy. In the case of the US, we were withdrawing from many of our colonial possessions and our economy was solidly based in our own territorial bounds. Overspeculation and poor decision-making led to the Great Depression, not colonialism. This is not to say that colonialism was a good model; it definitely wasn't.

Of course economies have bubbles and there is a cycle in capitalistic economies, but what are you trying to prove? That something else is better? That we should impart more rules on economies? What if those rules have severe unintended consequences? Generally (as in most instances and with little external intervention), if you allow the invisible hand of the free market to work, economies move in an upward direction over time. Even in the time period you mention and despite (or maybe because of) these bubbles, the world economy and the general standard of living across the globe has improved. You, as an economist, should know this.

Some Americans do believe we always have Right on our side, just as some British, French, Germans, Russians, Japanese (etc etc) did with regards to their countries. Most Americans are realistic, however, and understand that the US isn't always perfect. In fact, nobody on this thread claimed this at all. Yes, there were problems in the US, and yes, there still are problems in the US, just as there were problems in other countries, and there are problems in other countries. Some of these problems were damned terrible, but Americans have shown an uncanny ability to learn from our mistakes and to try and make our country better.

All you're trying to do is to seize this opportunity to sully the image of the US, and not for any other reason than you (IMHO) have a chip on your shoulder against the US.
Reply With Quote
  #25  
Old 09.12.2012, 15:25
Member
 
Join Date: Dec 2012
Location: Zurich
Posts: 195
Groaned at 50 Times in 31 Posts
Thanked 105 Times in 74 Posts
stevesim is considered unworthystevesim is considered unworthystevesim is considered unworthy
If you think that during WWII or just after, the US was "withdrawing from its colonial possessions", have I got news for you!!

How about Puerto Rico, Guam, the Samoan Islands, and other territories we still have but are not states? How about the IMF and World Bank?

And if you think that "the free hand of the market" will solve everything, perhaps you should go re-read Adam Smith because even he knew better, and in fact, his entire book is about how the "free market" should not be free.

As an economist, I have studied the US economy and the US' effects on other countries. It is not always a pretty picture. To say that it is because I have "a chip on my shoulder" is simplifying it - I prefer to say it is because I have something between my ears.

Loving your country doesn't mean you ignore the bad things about it.

Quote:
View Post
The whole world was wrong. It took many mistakes to kill so many millions of people. Germany, Spain, Britain, US, Italy, Japan, France, etc.. all played their roles. As in all major conflicts, it is never one sided.

You're 100% right.

Last edited by jrspet; 09.12.2012 at 21:55. Reason: Merging of successive posts
Reply With Quote
  #26  
Old 09.12.2012, 18:26
Forum Legend
 
Join Date: Dec 2010
Location: ZH
Posts: 5,320
Groaned at 58 Times in 48 Posts
Thanked 2,708 Times in 1,614 Posts
SOBEIT has a reputation beyond reputeSOBEIT has a reputation beyond reputeSOBEIT has a reputation beyond reputeSOBEIT has a reputation beyond reputeSOBEIT has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Pearl Harbour, 71 years ago ( day of infamy )

A lot of things were wrong but all had one aim - Freedom and Democracy
Reply With Quote
  #27  
Old 09.12.2012, 18:40
cannut's Avatar
Forum Legend
 
Join Date: Jul 2008
Location: canada
Posts: 6,910
Groaned at 182 Times in 142 Posts
Thanked 6,187 Times in 3,401 Posts
cannut has a reputation beyond reputecannut has a reputation beyond reputecannut has a reputation beyond reputecannut has a reputation beyond reputecannut has a reputation beyond reputecannut has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Pearl Harbour, 71 years ago ( day of infamy )

Quote:
View Post
A lot of things were wrong but all had one aim - Freedom and Democracy
Yeap Stalin,Tito the freedom fighters
Reply With Quote
This user would like to thank cannut for this useful post:
Reply




Currently Active Users Viewing This Thread: 1 (0 members and 1 guests)
 
Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off


Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
What would of happened to all my payments when working for 2 years 18 years ago??? Achapski Employment 3 11.07.2012 22:41
Left Swiss many years ago...wishing to return Achapski Introductions 2 09.07.2012 18:26
Accident insurance for sport injury three years ago monkeyboy76 Insurance 4 05.03.2011 00:29
Speeding 3 Years Ago? Skippy99 Transportation/driving 7 03.05.2007 14:23


All times are GMT +2. The time now is 01:13.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.4
Copyright ©2000 - 2022, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
LinkBacks Enabled by vBSEO 3.1.0