Go Back   English Forum Switzerland > Off-Topic > Off-Topic > International affairs/politics
Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
  #321  
Old 17.12.2012, 17:22
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jun 2009
Location: Switzerland
Posts: 449
Groaned at 100 Times in 61 Posts
Thanked 892 Times in 345 Posts
BonBon has a reputation beyond reputeBonBon has a reputation beyond reputeBonBon has a reputation beyond reputeBonBon has a reputation beyond repute
Re: What the hell is going on with guns in the US?

Quote:
View Post
Unlikely. It would mean that he would have to go through some pretty decent stages of trust to get access to weaponry. Cirtainly not immpossible for someone who is intelligent though. But this would remove a fair percentage of the spur-of-the-moment anger shootings that occur.

This area of the argument is grey. Why? Because the problem is with a culture which cares little about their neighbour and can escape in their car and drive home to their distant home and not have to worry about the people they treat badly.

Answer this one. How many wrong doers would continue on doing wrong things if they had to rub shoulders with their victims? If they could not escape in their car to far away place. The solution is not easy to solve either without reducing the amount of freedom which we currently enjoy.
I am sure any civilised gun owner would happily give up the 'freedom' to own a gun if it could save the lives of 20 odd children............

Its not a grey area, if a 20 year old boy did not have easy access to guns, these kids would more than likely be alive today.
Reply With Quote
  #322  
Old 17.12.2012, 17:22
Forum Veteran
 
Join Date: Mar 2010
Location: Albis area
Posts: 699
Groaned at 105 Times in 64 Posts
Thanked 510 Times in 284 Posts
EPMike is considered knowledgeableEPMike is considered knowledgeableEPMike is considered knowledgeable
Re: What the hell is going on with guns in the US?

Quote:
View Post
Quote:
View Post
One question I would like you to answer with either a yes or no answer.

In this particular incident, if this boy never had such easy access to guns would he have been able shoot these kids?
Anyone care to answer?
If You insist the short answer is NO.
The slightly longer one: quite probably NO. I hardly believe this boy could have gone through the "process" of getting such weapons in any other (developed) country. (Few exceptions apply such as south america).
Reply With Quote
This user would like to thank EPMike for this useful post:
  #323  
Old 17.12.2012, 17:25
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jun 2009
Location: Switzerland
Posts: 449
Groaned at 100 Times in 61 Posts
Thanked 892 Times in 345 Posts
BonBon has a reputation beyond reputeBonBon has a reputation beyond reputeBonBon has a reputation beyond reputeBonBon has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Connecticut primary school shootings

Quote:
View Post
I think the NRA could and would object, the problem here is people in the USA have a right to self defense especially in there own home. Now I keep all my guns locked in a gun cabinet, I live in the USA in Illinois and we DO HAVE a mandatory storage law here. It does not work, we still have murders, accidents, ect. Just like before. I kept my guns locked up before this law was passed so it really does not effect me at all, BUT if I lived in East St. Louis, Chicago, ect, there is no way I would have all my guns locked up. The problem is locking guns in safes and with trigger locks makes them useless when a killer breaking into your home is coming your way. After all he is not going to wait until you get your gun unlocked to use it on him. Who wants to die in their own home while taking a trigger lock off. The real problem in this country is stupid politicians who would try to put out a house fire by throwing gasoline on it, AND Mental Illness. The USA is a total failure at caring/and or treating mental illness. They put these troubled kids on ADHD medicine as soon as they have the most basic of problems. This medicine is really messing up their minds and not helping at all. See info on ADHD at this link BELOW, ADHD is a horrific problem in this country. These shooters all have things in common, First they happen in a gun free zone, they almost all dress in black commando type clothing, they all had early warning signs of serious problems that were ignored or not fixed, most had been on ADHD medicine and are mentally ill, they all ignored the laws of this country on murder, gun possession, ect. You can't take citizens rights away because of mentally ill madmen. What we need is to put guns IN school, train a small portion of the staff to use it and protect these kids. How many kids could have been saved if the Principal had put one right between this killers eyes, 10 minutes before the police got there? This might surprise many here but after all there ALREADY was guns in the school. My kids school has a full time city police officer at the school at all times and I live in a very rural area and the school is out in the country in the middle of thousands of acres of farm land and cattle pastures. There have been 0 school shootings at our school, wonder why!

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Attenti...ivity_disorder

Roughly, how long does it take you to get your guns out your secure cupboard?
Reply With Quote
  #324  
Old 17.12.2012, 17:27
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Apr 2011
Location: CH
Posts: 449
Groaned at 9 Times in 5 Posts
Thanked 647 Times in 281 Posts
Laertes has a reputation beyond reputeLaertes has a reputation beyond reputeLaertes has a reputation beyond reputeLaertes has a reputation beyond repute
Re: What the hell is going on with guns in the US?

Quote:
View Post
The system won't let me give one word answers. But I'm willing to say yes. Permit me to ask you a question in return. Do you think that the gunman could have been stopped if a teacher had quick access to a firearm?
If the teacher gets regular training in closed quarter combat (i.e. not just target shooting, but "realistic" simulatons and psychologigal training to reduce the constraint to kill people ) then maybe. The question is: Do you want a trained killer to teach your children? Besides the amount of training required for someone to accurately asses whether using the firearm is appropriate or if it will only escalate matters further is so huge, that noboedy would be ready to finance it. Without such training (leaving aside moral reasons against the precence of guns in schools and the danger of accidents due to carelessness) the teacher's firearm would rather endanger his class than protect it.
Reply With Quote
The following 3 users would like to thank Laertes for this useful post:
  #325  
Old 17.12.2012, 17:27
Forum Veteran
 
Join Date: Mar 2010
Location: Albis area
Posts: 699
Groaned at 105 Times in 64 Posts
Thanked 510 Times in 284 Posts
EPMike is considered knowledgeableEPMike is considered knowledgeableEPMike is considered knowledgeable
Re: What the hell is going on with guns in the US?

Quote:
View Post
I am sure any civilised gun owner would happily give up the 'freedom' to own a gun if it could save the lives of 27 children............

Its not a grey area, if a 20 year old boy did not have easy access to guns, these kids would more than likely be alive today.
It is clear that it COULD. It is sad that there are still idiots such as Jobsrobertsharpii (who groans and red reps w/o replying with sound arguments) who still don't get it that by giving up the "freedom" of anyone owning a gun COULD prevent such tragedies.
Reply With Quote
The following 3 users would like to thank EPMike for this useful post:
This user groans at EPMike for this post:
  #326  
Old 17.12.2012, 17:28
dodgyken's Avatar
Forum Legend
 
Join Date: Apr 2010
Location: Democratic Republic Kenistan
Posts: 10,737
Groaned at 360 Times in 294 Posts
Thanked 19,403 Times in 7,402 Posts
dodgyken has a reputation beyond reputedodgyken has a reputation beyond reputedodgyken has a reputation beyond reputedodgyken has a reputation beyond reputedodgyken has a reputation beyond reputedodgyken has a reputation beyond repute
Re: What the hell is going on with guns in the US?

Just so I can be sure on this, the second amendment grants individuals the right to bare arms. Now assuming this was originally about whether it was OK to wear a T-shirt or not, can someone answer me how many time the United States of America has been invaded by another country and has required its citizens to form militias and defend the "land of the free"?

Can someone confirm this number is higher than the number of massacres that have occurred in the last 5 years? (7 including this weekend)
Reply With Quote
This user would like to thank dodgyken for this useful post:
  #327  
Old 17.12.2012, 17:29
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jun 2009
Location: Switzerland
Posts: 449
Groaned at 100 Times in 61 Posts
Thanked 892 Times in 345 Posts
BonBon has a reputation beyond reputeBonBon has a reputation beyond reputeBonBon has a reputation beyond reputeBonBon has a reputation beyond repute
Re: What the hell is going on with guns in the US?

Quote:
View Post
If You insist the short answer is NO.
The slightly longer one: quite probably NO. I hardly believe this boy could have gone through the "process" of getting such weapons in any other (developed) country. (Few exceptions apply such as south america).
And I am sure you would agree that 'quite probably no' is much better than yes.
Reply With Quote
This user would like to thank BonBon for this useful post:
  #328  
Old 17.12.2012, 17:31
Assassin's Avatar
Forum Legend
 
Join Date: Mar 2010
Location: Chasing clouds
Posts: 4,045
Groaned at 180 Times in 123 Posts
Thanked 11,560 Times in 3,148 Posts
Assassin has a reputation beyond reputeAssassin has a reputation beyond reputeAssassin has a reputation beyond reputeAssassin has a reputation beyond reputeAssassin has a reputation beyond reputeAssassin has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Connecticut primary school shootings

Hunting is always wheeled out when you try and impose firearm controls. If you could try and have these "hunters" do something else, you'd make massive inroads into changing the way American society thinks (or not as the case may be).
Reply With Quote
This user would like to thank Assassin for this useful post:
  #329  
Old 17.12.2012, 17:31
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jun 2009
Location: Switzerland
Posts: 449
Groaned at 100 Times in 61 Posts
Thanked 892 Times in 345 Posts
BonBon has a reputation beyond reputeBonBon has a reputation beyond reputeBonBon has a reputation beyond reputeBonBon has a reputation beyond repute
Re: What the hell is going on with guns in the US?

Quote:
View Post
If the teacher gets regular training in closed quarter combat (i.e. not just target shooting, but "realistic" simulatons and psychologigal training to reduce the constraint to kill people ) then maybe. The question is: Do you want a trained killer to teach your children? Besides the amount of training required for someone to accurately asses whether using the firearm is appropriate or if it will only escalate matters further is so huge, that noboedy would be ready to finance it. Without such training (leaving aside moral reasons against the precence of guns in schools and the danger of accidents due to carelessness) the teacher's firearm would rather endanger his class than protect it.
The best soldier in the Navy Seals/SAS could not have got a gun out a secure cabinet quick enough to stop this boy killing someone.
Reply With Quote
This user would like to thank BonBon for this useful post:
  #330  
Old 17.12.2012, 17:35
Tom1234's Avatar
Forum Legend
 
Join Date: Jan 2007
Location: Kanton Luzern
Posts: 11,552
Groaned at 309 Times in 246 Posts
Thanked 16,003 Times in 6,548 Posts
Tom1234 has a reputation beyond reputeTom1234 has a reputation beyond reputeTom1234 has a reputation beyond reputeTom1234 has a reputation beyond reputeTom1234 has a reputation beyond reputeTom1234 has a reputation beyond repute
Re: What the hell is going on with guns in the US?

Quote:
View Post
Just so I can be sure on this, the second amendment grants individuals the right to bare arms. Now assuming this was originally about whether it was OK to wear a T-shirt or not, can someone answer me how many time the United States of America has been invaded by another country and has required its citizens to form militias and defend the "land of the free"?

It's apparently more so they have the ability to rise up against their own government (which was democratically elected but lets not complicate this issue for them).
Reply With Quote
The following 2 users would like to thank Tom1234 for this useful post:
  #331  
Old 17.12.2012, 17:36
Tom1234's Avatar
Forum Legend
 
Join Date: Jan 2007
Location: Kanton Luzern
Posts: 11,552
Groaned at 309 Times in 246 Posts
Thanked 16,003 Times in 6,548 Posts
Tom1234 has a reputation beyond reputeTom1234 has a reputation beyond reputeTom1234 has a reputation beyond reputeTom1234 has a reputation beyond reputeTom1234 has a reputation beyond reputeTom1234 has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Connecticut primary school shootings

Quote:
View Post
Hunting is always wheeled out when you try and impose firearm controls. If you could try and have these "hunters" do something else, you'd make massive inroads into changing the way American society thinks (or not as the case may be).
Perhaps they could use Beagles instead of guns?
Reply With Quote
This user would like to thank Tom1234 for this useful post:
  #332  
Old 17.12.2012, 17:37
Forum Veteran
 
Join Date: Mar 2010
Location: Albis area
Posts: 699
Groaned at 105 Times in 64 Posts
Thanked 510 Times in 284 Posts
EPMike is considered knowledgeableEPMike is considered knowledgeableEPMike is considered knowledgeable
Re: What the hell is going on with guns in the US?

Quote:
View Post
The system won't let me give one word answers. But I'm willing to say yes.
Would you please elaborate how say in UK, a 24year old would get hands on such weaponry without being deeply involved in criminal organizations?

Quote:
View Post
Permit me to ask you a question in return. Do you think that the gunman could have been stopped if a teacher had quick access to a firearm?
Quick answer NO;
Longer answer Probably NO. Or at least not before killing other children. I mean let's be realistic: You are a school teacher (with no bullet proof west) giving a lesson just like any other day. A guy (who prepared for this day for a long time) comes in the classroom and starts shooting. Now what are the chances that you - the off-guard schoolteacher - have the time to get your weapon, aim to the head (or other body part not protected by the vest) and kill the boy (w/o killing other children) BEFORE you are shot?
Reply With Quote
This user would like to thank EPMike for this useful post:
  #333  
Old 17.12.2012, 17:37
Tom1234's Avatar
Forum Legend
 
Join Date: Jan 2007
Location: Kanton Luzern
Posts: 11,552
Groaned at 309 Times in 246 Posts
Thanked 16,003 Times in 6,548 Posts
Tom1234 has a reputation beyond reputeTom1234 has a reputation beyond reputeTom1234 has a reputation beyond reputeTom1234 has a reputation beyond reputeTom1234 has a reputation beyond reputeTom1234 has a reputation beyond repute
Re: What the hell is going on with guns in the US?

Quote:
View Post
I don't think it's easy to own an automatic weapon legally or illegally anywhere except in the police, millitary or some druggy gang. Some places do allow it and I wish I lived in one.
Can I ask why?
Reply With Quote
The following 2 users would like to thank Tom1234 for this useful post:
  #334  
Old 17.12.2012, 17:38
dodgyken's Avatar
Forum Legend
 
Join Date: Apr 2010
Location: Democratic Republic Kenistan
Posts: 10,737
Groaned at 360 Times in 294 Posts
Thanked 19,403 Times in 7,402 Posts
dodgyken has a reputation beyond reputedodgyken has a reputation beyond reputedodgyken has a reputation beyond reputedodgyken has a reputation beyond reputedodgyken has a reputation beyond reputedodgyken has a reputation beyond repute
Re: What the hell is going on with guns in the US?

Quote:
View Post
It's apparently more so they have the ability to rise up against their own government (which the democratically elected but lets not complicate this issue for them).
That'll explain how successful they have been in introducing their breed of democracy elsewhere.

What is the difference between the US constitution and Islamic Law?
One is an historic text which is used by lawmakers of today to allow individuals to commit barbaric attacks on their own people.

The other is the Koran
Reply With Quote
The following 2 users would like to thank dodgyken for this useful post:
The following 2 users groan at dodgyken for this post:
  #335  
Old 17.12.2012, 17:42
Forum Veteran
 
Join Date: Nov 2010
Location: Zug
Posts: 694
Groaned at 25 Times in 21 Posts
Thanked 779 Times in 357 Posts
xkcd has a reputation beyond reputexkcd has a reputation beyond reputexkcd has a reputation beyond reputexkcd has a reputation beyond repute
Re: What the hell is going on with guns in the US?

Quote:
View Post
You can't be serious!!!
Indeed I wasn't. (And thanks to Odile for removing her groan on my post)
Unfortunately this is almost exactly the line of 'reasoning' provided by some NRA hare-brained official in the wake of other mass killings.
Reply With Quote
The following 3 users would like to thank xkcd for this useful post:
  #336  
Old 17.12.2012, 17:45
Forum Veteran
 
Join Date: Nov 2010
Location: Zug
Posts: 694
Groaned at 25 Times in 21 Posts
Thanked 779 Times in 357 Posts
xkcd has a reputation beyond reputexkcd has a reputation beyond reputexkcd has a reputation beyond reputexkcd has a reputation beyond repute
Re: What the hell is going on with guns in the US?

Quote:
View Post
I believe harsher punishment for minor crimes is also a way of dealing with such problems.

At the risk of derailing the discussion on gun control: The US already holds the world record for prison inmates. And there are multiple studies that the severeness of the punishment is racially biased.
Reply With Quote
The following 3 users would like to thank xkcd for this useful post:
  #337  
Old 17.12.2012, 17:45
st2lemans's Avatar
Forum Legend
 
Join Date: Dec 2010
Location: Lugano
Posts: 22,198
Groaned at 1,166 Times in 913 Posts
Thanked 25,056 Times in 12,000 Posts
st2lemans has a reputation beyond reputest2lemans has a reputation beyond reputest2lemans has a reputation beyond reputest2lemans has a reputation beyond reputest2lemans has a reputation beyond reputest2lemans has a reputation beyond repute
Re: What the hell is going on with guns in the US?

Quote:
View Post
would a 20 year old kid get two semis and an automatic rifle
It was a SEMI-automatic rifle!

Tom
Reply With Quote
This user would like to thank st2lemans for this useful post:
The following 2 users groan at st2lemans for this post:
  #338  
Old 17.12.2012, 17:46
Jack of all trades.'s Avatar
Forum Veteran
 
Join Date: Jun 2009
Location: Basel
Posts: 784
Groaned at 21 Times in 14 Posts
Thanked 632 Times in 303 Posts
Jack of all trades. has an excellent reputationJack of all trades. has an excellent reputationJack of all trades. has an excellent reputationJack of all trades. has an excellent reputation
Re: Connecticut primary school shootings

Quote:
View Post
It's not just the President's job to make the wishes of the majority heard, it's the time for majority to take on some responsibility and elect politicians who represent what they really want.
They can't. There are only realy two choices, Republican and Democrat and they both work for the same masters. Like communism but with two choices. Any one else who steps in gets stomped on.

The NRA is now so big, about 4,000,000 members, that it has become the number 1 lobbying group in America.

But I am open for suggestions as to how to solve the problem. So how do we silence the massive power of the NRA which probably has the support of just about every arms dealer and gun shop owner in America and probably heaps around the world as well? There must be an answer but I don't see it.

Perhaps the answer is that this is a part of life. Life can be dangerous and when we are in the wrong place at the wrong time...?

What is troubling news just given to us from the American poster is the problem with mentally ill people...

Perhaps the USA simply cannot afford to maintain the high levels of social assistance. Maybe the answer may be better care for the mentaly ill? Seems logical to me.

Last edited by Jack of all trades.; 17.12.2012 at 17:49. Reason: more info
Reply With Quote
The following 2 users would like to thank Jack of all trades. for this useful post:
  #339  
Old 17.12.2012, 17:46
Forum Veteran
 
Join Date: Mar 2010
Location: Albis area
Posts: 699
Groaned at 105 Times in 64 Posts
Thanked 510 Times in 284 Posts
EPMike is considered knowledgeableEPMike is considered knowledgeableEPMike is considered knowledgeable
Re: What the hell is going on with guns in the US?

Quote:
View Post
The best soldier in the Navy Seals/SAS could not have got a gun out a secure cabinet quick enough to stop this boy killing someone.
I belive the pro-gun league would propose NOT keeping them in a secure cabinet but that teachers have weapons on themselves AT ALL TIMES!
Reply With Quote
This user would like to thank EPMike for this useful post:
  #340  
Old 17.12.2012, 17:50
dodgyken's Avatar
Forum Legend
 
Join Date: Apr 2010
Location: Democratic Republic Kenistan
Posts: 10,737
Groaned at 360 Times in 294 Posts
Thanked 19,403 Times in 7,402 Posts
dodgyken has a reputation beyond reputedodgyken has a reputation beyond reputedodgyken has a reputation beyond reputedodgyken has a reputation beyond reputedodgyken has a reputation beyond reputedodgyken has a reputation beyond repute
Re: What the hell is going on with guns in the US?

Quote:
View Post
It was a SEMI-automatic rifle!

Tom
Which reduced the number of bullets in each child from 20 to just 11? I am sure that is a great comfort to the families.
Reply With Quote
The following 2 users would like to thank dodgyken for this useful post:
Reply

Tags
brown, darren wilson, ferguson, gun control, guns, kids, police, shooting range, usa




Currently Active Users Viewing This Thread: 1 (0 members and 1 guests)
 
Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off


Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
The 2nd Amendment as explained by a Brit Sean Connery Other/general 126 07.12.2012 15:41
Gun import from the US DantesDame Other/general 4 04.12.2012 18:02
US Gun Control Laws Caviarchips International affairs/politics 179 20.08.2012 23:48
The US taking control of the Interwebz? Nelly_Da_Hefferlump International affairs/politics 4 14.10.2010 01:30
Washington Post story about gun control in Switzerland Bartholemew Swiss politics/news 39 23.05.2007 14:24


All times are GMT +2. The time now is 09:44.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.4
Copyright ©2000 - 2018, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
LinkBacks Enabled by vBSEO 3.1.0