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  #461  
Old 18.12.2012, 11:30
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Re: What the hell is going on with guns in the US?

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Yes, to attack someone with a knife is way more "personal" than with a gun, you have to be close and really make an "effort", whereas a gun you can be 20-30 meters away...

the comparison between knives and guns is just ridiculous...
I agree especially if someone is sticking one in your face, I know which one I'd prefer.
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  #462  
Old 18.12.2012, 11:38
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Re: What the hell is going on with guns in the US?

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Which reduced the number of bullets in each child from 20 to just 11? I am sure that is a great comfort to the families.
As I'm sure your sarcasm would be. Shameless.
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  #463  
Old 18.12.2012, 11:39
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Re: What the hell is going on with guns in the US?

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An RPG would be a little difficult to conceal no? Seriously, if I was a feral robbing type I would definitely choose a less responsive prey than an armed citizen.
So by that rational, a country which allowed a "concealed weopon" would have a lower rate of violent crime than one without??

Good job the evidence supports that hypothesis.
What do you mean it doesn't?
Really?
No, that doesn't sound right does it!!

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As I'm sure your sarcasm would be. Shameless.
Fatal sarcasm - often listed of death certificates
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  #464  
Old 18.12.2012, 11:41
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Re: Connecticut primary school shootings

I know that quoting Michael Moore isn't exactly a science but in his movie 'Bowling for Columbine" he had a cartoon section which also perpetrated the idea that Americans are fed fear to keep them in their place. It's a balance of fearing other races and cultures which feeds the urge to keep weapons which keeps some kind of fake reliance on central government to watch over its citizens. Perverse.

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  #465  
Old 18.12.2012, 11:45
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Re: Connecticut primary school shootings

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I know that quoting Michael Moore isn't exactly a science but in his movie 'Bowling for Columbine" he had a cartoon section which also perpetrated the idea that Americans are fed fear to keep them in their place. It's a balance of fearing other races and cultures which feeds the urge to keep weapons which keeps some kind of fake reliance on central government to watch over its citizens. Perverse.

After such a massacre and devastating incident, and 13 pages of debate, the forum members are starting to lean towards the concepts and ideas us crazy tin foil hat gang have been trumpeting for some time.

I dont believe my eyes
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  #466  
Old 18.12.2012, 11:55
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Re: What the hell is going on with guns in the US?

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So after 14 hours no one is able to provide a reasoned argument of why "an average Joe" should own a gun.

Come on guys - give it a go.
I'm not convinced that gun owners are the 'average Joe'. It's my experience that gun owners are more law abiding, enviromentally aware, socially well adjusted and from some of the acidic comments here, more reasoned than the average Joe. I don't believe for an instant that everybody should posess a firearm God forbid, but I certainly believe it is good for society to allow people of good natures to own them if they choose.
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  #467  
Old 18.12.2012, 12:00
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Re: Connecticut primary school shootings

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Take the fear out of people and they won't need guns.

However, how does one cure "fear"?
Take away the guns and people won't have fear.
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  #468  
Old 18.12.2012, 12:05
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Re: What the hell is going on with guns in the US?

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I'm not convinced that gun owners are the 'average Joe'. It's my experience that gun owners are more law abiding, enviromentally aware, socially well adjusted and from some of the acidic comments here, more reasoned than the average Joe. I don't believe for an instant that everybody should posess a firearm God forbid, but I certainly believe it is good for society to allow people of good natures to own them if they choose.


Is the question is so difficult to answer? Can you not provide any reasons at all why an "average joe" living in an "average town" in "average america" should own a gun?

And yet you believe that people of a "good nature" (for example an elementary school teacher) with guns make a society a better place.

Does it mean you can answer:
Can you provide a reasoned argument for why an "above average and good natured Joe" should own a gun?
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  #469  
Old 18.12.2012, 12:07
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Re: What the hell is going on with guns in the US?

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I almost had the impression you are the victim here, almost, as I have actually read your comment in the red-rep!

AND

If you had been paying attention you would have seen I did actually make rational (at least to some of us here) arguments against guns. I am still waiting for you to do so pro-guns.

Er no... you just seem to groan at people. No prob with that, but 'rational' please don't exaggerate.
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  #470  
Old 18.12.2012, 12:11
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Re: Connecticut primary school shootings

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Take away the guns and people won't have fear.
I disagree completely. To say nothing of the logistics and impossibility of "taking away" 300 million guns, the fear that many of these Americans have has nothing to do with guns. It has to do with a changing place in the world and a gradual societal rejection of "values" they hold very dear. Guns are a symptom of this fear, not a cause. Obama said it best when he referred to these people as "clinging to their guns and religion".
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  #471  
Old 18.12.2012, 12:23
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Re: What the hell is going on with guns in the US?

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Is the question is so difficult to answer? Can you not provide any reasons at all why an "average joe" living in an "average town" in "average america" should own a gun?

And yet you believe that people of a "good nature" (for example an elementary school teacher) with guns make a society a better place.

Does it mean you can answer:
Can you provide a reasoned argument for why an "above average and good natured Joe" should own a gun?
Trust. One word, very important though. However, I'm not out to convince you as I guess there will never be enough words for the anti-brigade.
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  #472  
Old 18.12.2012, 12:23
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Re: What the hell is going on with guns in the US?

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Here is that link I promised. It's from a site that favours gun ownership so I guess like everything else in the world its biased.

http://gunssavelives.net/
Not "like everything else in the world'. But yes, it is somewhat biased, obviously, given the URL.

More importantly, reading all the front page stories there's not a single instance where guns have saved lives. The opposite is clearly illustrated, as all those 'bad guys' were shot, but in none of the cases was it certain, or even nearly so, that lives would have been lost without the use of the firearm. Possible, sure, but in practice an armed robber/burglar very rarely kills his victims unless challenged.
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  #473  
Old 18.12.2012, 12:25
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Re: What the hell is going on with guns in the US?

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So death is a suitable punishment for armed robbery?

It is precisely because people think things like this that they shouldn't have guns.
I apologise. Would my death have been preferable to you?
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  #474  
Old 18.12.2012, 12:27
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Re: What the hell is going on with guns in the US?

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Can you provide a reasoned argument for why an "above average and good natured Joe" should own a gun?
Trust. One word, very important though.
So that's a "no" then.
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  #475  
Old 18.12.2012, 12:29
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Re: What the hell is going on with guns in the US?

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Not "like everything else in the world'. But yes, it is somewhat biased, obviously, given the URL.

More importantly, reading all the front page stories there's not a single instance where guns have saved lives. The opposite is clearly illustrated, as all those 'bad guys' were shot, but in none of the cases was it certain, or even nearly so, that lives would have been lost without the use of the firearm. Possible, sure, but in practice an armed robber/burglar very rarely kills his victims unless challenged.
Well maybe I should start a website named "people who were killed but thought about defending themselves but decided that maybe they could talk their way out of it despite having access to a defensive firearm".
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  #476  
Old 18.12.2012, 12:29
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Re: What the hell is going on with guns in the US?

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Can you provide a reasoned argument for why an "above average and good natured Joe" should own a gun?
I think things like hunting and target shooting are perfectly good reasons for average Joes to own guns, provided they're trained and screened much more thoroughly than they are now.
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Old 18.12.2012, 12:32
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Re: What the hell is going on with guns in the US?

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Well maybe I should start a website named "people who were killed but thought about defending themselves but decided that maybe they could talk their way out of it despite having access to a defensive firearm".
Yes you should. I tried to find one like that but couldn't. Perhaps there just aren't enough cases like that.
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  #478  
Old 18.12.2012, 12:35
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Re: What the hell is going on with guns in the US?

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Well maybe I should start a website named "people who were killed but thought about defending themselves but decided that maybe they could talk their way out of it despite having access to a defensive firearm".
Sure. And while you're about it what about "people who were killed by an assailant after they tried to fight them off with a weapon". I suspect this one might be slightly larger.

Point is that your logic is based on instinct, combined with social conditioning, but when you put these instincts to the test it's actually very difficult to find any evidence to support them.
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  #479  
Old 18.12.2012, 12:36
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Re: What the hell is going on with guns in the US?

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So that's a "no" then.
Trust is not a valid reason? I answered your question. If you don't regard trust as a virtue worth revering then I'm sorry. In general, do we not trust our policemen, soldiers etc to posess and use guns? Are they in less stressfull situations day to day than the 'average joe', are they not average joes?
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  #480  
Old 18.12.2012, 12:39
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Re: What the hell is going on with guns in the US?

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Yes you should. I tried to find one like that but couldn't. Perhaps there just aren't enough cases like that.

Of course there aren't for obvious reasons.
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