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  #581  
Old 20.12.2012, 12:57
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Re: What the hell is going on with guns in the US?

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It wasn't me that suggested punishing people who misuse guns instead of banning guns - it was you, and I wondered why you wrote it and what was your reasoning?

But, it the high-profile cases, it's pointless as a deterrent as most of the gun crazies shoot themselves or get shot and it's hardly a punishment if they're dead, is it.

As for increasing the severity of the punishment, many U.S. states have capital punishment (which is the ultimate punishment) but the shootings continue so that's a waste of time too.
because life is more than about surviving and reproducing.

sure we could make everyone safer by taking away all guns. banning all fast food. banning cars. banning alcohol. banning martial arts.

heck, we could even lock everyone up into cells from birth and give them a controlled diet that ensures the maximum use of resources and provides safety for all, but what kind of life would that be?

people should live. enjoy their life. do what they want to do. it's what makes us human. yes, shooting is seen as pointless by some. maybe paragliding is seen as pointless and dangerous too? we should have our freedom and do the things we enjoy. it's what makes our lives fun and enjoyable and maybe what makes us human in the end.

sure, we will have accidents. we will have tragedies. but that is life.

let's not trade away our freedom for illusory security. as franklin noted, we would deserve neither and lose both.
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  #582  
Old 20.12.2012, 13:03
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Re: What the hell is going on with guns in the US?

In the Connecticut and all over the US, sales of arms, especially semi/automatic weapons like the one used have more than doubled in the last few days. The weapon in question being the most popular as it has become a 'collector's item' since the massacre.

I despair
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  #583  
Old 20.12.2012, 13:03
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Re: What the hell is going on with guns in the US?

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Of the above - which ones have a PRIMARY purpose of killing?
Probably alcohol.
Nonsense. Not 'what does it do', but 'primary purpose'. Did the first cave men who found that eating some fermented mush made them feel good really think - "great stuff, let's make some more so we can kill people with it"?

An absurd notion, but it illustrates the point.
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  #584  
Old 20.12.2012, 13:13
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Re: What the hell is going on with guns in the US?

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let's not trade away our freedom for illusory security. as franklin noted, we would deserve neither and lose both.
It's not illusory security. When gun controls were tightened in Australia, gun crime went down.

Or are you suggesting that Americans behave in a completely different way to Australians with regard to guns?

I'm not an advocate of banning guns. Instead I feel they should be locked up, at gun clubs, or at hunting lodges or such places so people can carry on their target shooting and hunting and so on.

Which is completely different from an old lady carrying a hand-gun in her handbag because she feels she has to because everyone else does. That's what illusory security really is.
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  #585  
Old 20.12.2012, 13:16
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Re: What the hell is going on with guns in the US?

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Nonsense. Not 'what does it do', but 'primary purpose'. Did the first cave men who found that eating some fermented mush made them feel good really think - "great stuff, let's make some more so we can kill people with it"?

An absurd notion, but it illustrates the point.
i think you'll find that people don't buy guns primarily to go out and shoot people. they buy them for recreational purposes (mostly putting holes through paper at a distance) and for protection. (arguments against guns can be similarly applied against martial arts). the normal recreational use of guns is not for killing people and by and large people don't get killed by them through accidents etc. (as the danger is known and respected).

alcohol is for consumption and people consume it for the effects knowing that it is bad for the health and that drinking to excess causes death through various means (drink driving etc.)

in the end, we accept alcohol because we enjoy it and despite what we like to think, we don't value life so highly that we ban various forms of recreation and convenience to be marginally safer.
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  #586  
Old 20.12.2012, 13:19
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Re: What the hell is going on with guns in the US?

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It's not illusory security. When gun controls were tightened in Australia, gun crime went down.

Or are you suggesting that Americans behave in a completely different way to Australians with regard to guns?

I'm not an advocate of banning guns. Instead I feel they should be locked up, at gun clubs, or at hunting lodges or such places so people can carry on their target shooting and hunting and so on.

Which is completely different from an old lady carrying a hand-gun in her handbag because she feels she has to because everyone else does. That's what illusory security really is.
it's illusory to some extent because if you want to kill people you can do that easily. if i wanted to, i could kill tens of thousands of people - though it wouldn't be with guns.

i would also be for making guns safer. we didn't ban plans because of 9/11.
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  #587  
Old 20.12.2012, 13:22
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Re: What the hell is going on with guns in the US?

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it's illusory to some extent because if you want to kill people you can do that easily. if i wanted to, i could kill tens of thousands of people - though it wouldn't be with guns.
But that's you. That's not Joe public.
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  #588  
Old 20.12.2012, 13:27
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Re: What the hell is going on with guns in the US?

Breaking news:

SMUG EUROPEANS TELL AMERICANS HOW TO RUN THEIR COUNTRY

Concept of 'democracy' lost on people who think life was better for everyone when they ran the world.

Full story here.
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  #589  
Old 20.12.2012, 13:36
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Re: What the hell is going on with guns in the US?

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Breaking news:

SMUG EUROPEANS TELL AMERICANS HOW TO RUN THEIR COUNTRY
Smug European thinking Americans are too thick to able to answer for themselves.

Who's that then?
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  #590  
Old 20.12.2012, 13:37
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Re: What the hell is going on with guns in the US?

The President and the majority of people in the US want some form gun control- but the unelected NRA is preventing this- democracy?

And since when is it undemocratic to DISCUSS issues which do not directly concern us, be it Palestine, or the US, or whatever? Who are you to tell us we cannot discuss those issues- what democratic right have you got to tell us what we can or can't discuss/debate?
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  #591  
Old 20.12.2012, 13:38
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Re: What the hell is going on with guns in the US?

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But that's you. That's not Joe public.
but that is largely the point. most of us everyday could do terrible things. but we don't. we shouldn't go crazy when something bad happens and judge the rest of humanity by the standards of these edge cases.

these incidents, although tragic, are not the norm (9/11, the various shootings etc.)

yet we are jumping on all sorts of half-baked measures (no liquids, take of shoes, gun ban).

when actually, the chances of being killed in such incidents is so tiny in comparison to various other measures that could be taken to save lives (drinking ban, smoking ban, driving speed enforcement by mandatory GPS). we recognise that it is a trade-off. but when it comes to terrorism, gun crime and paedophilia everyone seems to go nuts and stop thinking rationally.
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  #592  
Old 20.12.2012, 13:43
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Re: What the hell is going on with guns in the US?

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but i think the point is that these incidents, although tragic, are not the norm (9/11, the various shootings etc.)

yet we are jumping on all sorts of half-baked measures (no liquids, take of shoes, gun ban).

when actually, the chances of being killed in such incidents is so tiny in comparison to various other measures that could be taken to save lives (drinking ban, smoking ban, driving speed enforcement by mandatory GPS). we recognise that it is a trade-off. but when it comes to terrorism, gun crime and paedophilia everyone seems to go nuts and stop thinking rationally.
So, would you like the same lax gun controls to be introduced into Europe?

If it works for the U.S. then why not the rest of us?
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  #593  
Old 20.12.2012, 13:45
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Re: What the hell is going on with guns in the US?



We're saving the world!

Next on the agenda: Tibet. Isn't it awful! Who'd like more jus de poodle? Yes, it's one of Nigella's. Divine, isn't it?
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  #594  
Old 20.12.2012, 13:47
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Re: What the hell is going on with guns in the US?

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We're saving the world!

Next on the agenda: Tibet. Isn't it awful! Who'd like more jus de poodle? Yes, it's one of Nigella's. Divine, isn't it?
Perhaps you'd care to give us a list of what we are, and what we are not allowed to discuss on this forum so we don't upset you?
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  #595  
Old 20.12.2012, 13:48
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Re: What the hell is going on with guns in the US?

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Perhaps you'd care to give us a list of what we are, and what we are not allowed to discuss on this forum so we don't upset you?
Discuss what you like. It won't change a thing.

Feels nice, though, doesn't it?
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  #596  
Old 20.12.2012, 13:48
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Re: What the hell is going on with guns in the US?

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So, would you like the same lax gun controls to be introduced into Europe?

If it works for the U.S. then why not the rest of us?
I would be supportive of people being able buy and keep guns at home.
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  #597  
Old 20.12.2012, 13:49
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Re: What the hell is going on with guns in the US?

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Discuss what you like. It won't change a thing.

Feels nice, though, doesn't it?
It would feel nicer if you avoided posting your trolling and childish comments. They're not even funny.
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  #598  
Old 20.12.2012, 13:50
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Re: What the hell is going on with guns in the US?

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I would be supportive of people being able buy and keep guns at home.
Any types of guns?
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  #599  
Old 20.12.2012, 13:51
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Re: What the hell is going on with guns in the US?

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It would feel nicer if you avoided posting your trolling and childish comments. They're not even funny.
They're not intended to be funny.

But please, go ahead. The people of the United States of America are eagerly awaiting your sage advice.
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Old 20.12.2012, 13:53
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Re: What the hell is going on with guns in the US?

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They're not intended to be funny.

But please, go ahead. The people of the United States of America are eagerly awaiting your sage advice.
Maybe they could take the advice of their own elected President?

Or do you think he shouldn't be there either?
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