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  #641  
Old 20.12.2012, 17:36
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Re: What the hell is going on with guns in the US?

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So YES then

Clearly, No.


You have consistently misrepresented people's statements and backtracked on your own prior statements when backed into a corner.

Lots of outraged smiles () do not an argument make.


Here's how I disagree with his statement, without misrepresenting what he said, and without having to feign outrage:


Almost anything can be used to kill, that's why we have to classify items in terms of killing efficiency, which is why pencils and frying pans are relatively low on the list, knives a bit higher, kinder eggs and unpastuerized milk inexplicably somewhere above that, cars somewhat higher, nerve gas pretty high up, and plutonium and the smallpox virus really, really high up. The problem is, guns are improperly classified and currently somewhere between knives and kinder eggs, when they should be between cars and nerve gas. We can't possibly ban everything that can be used to kill someone, but we can make those items that are far more efficient at doing so difficult to acquire.
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  #642  
Old 20.12.2012, 17:42
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Re: What the hell is going on with guns in the US?

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So now we're looking to fiction for our facts?
Sadly, fiction is one of the causes of gun violence in the U.S.

Main-stream movies and video games spring to mind and seem to feature heavily in the lives of the crazies.
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  #643  
Old 20.12.2012, 17:47
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Re: What the hell is going on with guns in the US?

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Agreed - but this could be even safer if the secure storage was at a gun club (or the ammunition was).

Or, are you of the mind that guns should be allowed to be kept at home for self-defence?
Precisely so. One of the factors that I mentioned few posts ago...
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  #644  
Old 20.12.2012, 17:49
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Re: What the hell is going on with guns in the US?

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Clearly, No.


You have consistently misrepresented people's statements and backtracked on your own prior statements when backed into a corner.

Lots of outraged smiles () do not an argument make.


Here's how I disagree with his statement, without misrepresenting what he said, and without having to feign outrage:


Almost anything can be used to kill, that's why we have to classify items in terms of killing efficiency, which is why pencils and frying pans are relatively low on the list, knives a bit higher, kinder eggs and unpastuerized milk inexplicably somewhere above that, cars somewhat higher, nerve gas pretty high up, and plutonium and the smallpox virus really, really high up. The problem is, guns are improperly classified and currently somewhere between knives and kinder eggs, when they should be between cars and nerve gas. We can't possibly ban everything that can be used to kill someone, but we can make those items that are far more efficient at doing so difficult to acquire.
If someone is going to post a weak statement it will be shot down. That is exactly what he posted. He failed to separate the level of danger posed by owning a pencil is any different from that of owning a gun. Anything in the hands of a nutcase can kill was his argument. Even a feather pillow.

I agree with you on the mis-classification of guns in the US. But the Pro-Gun brigade would rather have them pushed down towards pencils than up towards nerve gas.

There is awful lot of good about the US - but there is an awful lot of bad. The statistics on childhood literacy, poverty and life expectancy speak volumes - and in their own way help feed a negative cycle. There are more black american men inside the US correctional system than were ever in slavery.

The US continues to fail the most vulnerable members of society, and until the Republicans can get their heads cleared of party rhertoric the current president will be unable to enact any policies which improve their lot.

The rich are getting richer, the poor poorer, and one day that second amendment allowing the people to form militia and bare arms is going to come up and bite them on the arse.
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  #645  
Old 20.12.2012, 17:50
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Re: What the hell is going on with guns in the US?

No worries. All our gun problems will be sorted by tomorrow.
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  #646  
Old 20.12.2012, 17:52
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Re: What the hell is going on with guns in the US?

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Agreed - but this could be even safer if the secure storage was at a gun club (or the ammunition was).

Or, are you of the mind that guns should be allowed to be kept at home for self-defence?
Central storage locations are not a particularly secure idea as they have been the target of organised crime on quite a few occasions. Compare the haul of weapons a gang could obtain between a secured lockup and a single house. I don't see any practical problem with a weapon being held at home by responsible owners. Still the stand point of the Swiss government I believe.

On the subject of teachers having access to firearms, I read a comparison on the thread yesterday which asked why governments protect money transports and banks (in some countries) with armed guards. Don't children deserve decent protection from what is now an established possibility of attack? I would certainly feel my children were safer if I knew somebody had the possibility to stop an armed nutter in his tracks.
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  #647  
Old 20.12.2012, 17:54
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Re: What the hell is going on with guns in the US?

Has anyone mentioned kinder egg being more effective than pencil

Argument about sharp pencil wasn't just pulled out of the bag. How many of you ever played with mini cross-bows which shoot sharp arrows that can be replaced by sharp pencil with same effectiveness? It can fly same good trajectory and cause similar kind of damage to the target. Quite clear according to guns classification this wouldnt even figure on the list. If you crazy and smart enough living in your hateful world you can even master a home made explosives. Which is opposite to what most normal gun club members would ever think to do which is to use them with bad intentions. Argument of guns being stolen is just as good as money being stolen by bank robberies. As Swiss figured it out correctly be responsible for your own firearms and guard them so that they do not reach hands of unwanted.

Chill out - no need to get excited. It would be wonderful to have strict gun regulation laws implemented but knowing life it is a wishful thinking. Obama can try to succeed but too many gun lobbyists and industries would stand against this wonderful principled initiative. Time to wake up for hard liners yes but it is more difficult to implement in practice than on paper.
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  #648  
Old 20.12.2012, 17:58
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Re: What the hell is going on with guns in the US?

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Has anyone mentioned kinder egg being more effective than pencil
It's the element of surprise that does it.
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  #649  
Old 20.12.2012, 18:01
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Re: What the hell is going on with guns in the US?

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It's the element of surprise that does it.
Disappointment is a better word!
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  #650  
Old 20.12.2012, 18:02
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Re: What the hell is going on with guns in the US?

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On the subject of teachers having access to firearms, I read a comparison on the thread yesterday which asked why governments protect money transports and banks (in some countries) with armed guards. Don't children deserve decent protection from what is now an established possibility of attack? I would certainly feel my children were safer if I knew somebody had the possibility to stop an armed nutter in his tracks.
I'd feel safer if the nutter wasn't armed in the first place.

I have to ask - you must be a lot more terrified living here than when you lived in the U.S. How do you cope with that daily terror?
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  #651  
Old 20.12.2012, 18:03
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Re: What the hell is going on with guns in the US?

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I'd feel safer if the nutter wasn't armed in the first place.

I have to ask - you must be a lot more terrified living here than when you lived in the U.S. How do you cope with that daily terror?
Sits at home, rocking in the corner, sharpening knives.

Just like any other normal person
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  #652  
Old 20.12.2012, 18:06
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Re: What the hell is going on with guns in the US?

There's a big difference with European nutters, they prefer abusing innocent children in their basements rather than shooting them.

What's your preference: Guns or basements?
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  #653  
Old 20.12.2012, 18:09
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Re: What the hell is going on with guns in the US?

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There's a big difference with European nutters, they prefer abusing innocent children in their basements rather than shooting them.

What's your preference: Guns or basements?
Switzerland isn't Austria you know.
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  #654  
Old 20.12.2012, 18:10
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Re: What the hell is going on with guns in the US?

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Switzerland isn't Austria you know.
Pah - they all sound the same to me
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  #655  
Old 20.12.2012, 18:29
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Re: What the hell is going on with guns in the US?

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Sits at home, rocking in the corner, sharpening knives.

Just like any other normal person
At least I'm allowed metal knives at home unlike the plastic ones in your institiution.
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  #656  
Old 20.12.2012, 18:46
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Re: What the hell is going on with guns in the US?

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There's a big difference with European nutters, they prefer abusing innocent children in their basements rather than shooting them.

What's your preference: Guns or basements?
I don't care for the tone of that. Care to spell it out to me?
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  #657  
Old 20.12.2012, 19:00
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Re: What the hell is going on with guns in the US?

There are far too many dumb, crazy, gun-obsessed assholes in the US. Having met my fair share of those people, no one in this thread comes even remotely close to being one of those people, and I don't think there needs to be this much animosity towards anyone who suggests guns may actually serve a purpose in Anerican society other than murdering people, just as they do in the UK and anywhere else. It's clearly ease of access that's the issue, and I don't think anyone was suggesting that obtaining guns should remain easy. (I may be wrong, admittedly)
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  #658  
Old 20.12.2012, 21:14
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Re: What the hell is going on with guns in the US?

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A gun is able to kill at range - quickly and efficiently. Very little else can do so - and be readily available to so many.
did you think we didn't know that already? and your point is?

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In the US there are approximately 2,500,000,000,000 driven miles per year - with 30,000 road deaths - about 1 every 100,000,000 miles

In the US there are appox. 300,000,000 guns - and 15,000 people killed each year. Let say each gun is fired 10 times? 100 times? That would mean a death rate of 1 person per 200,000 or 2,000,000 bullets fired.
now you're just making up random numbers and throwing out ratios. unfortunately, this doesn't really form itself into any kind of coherent argument and so doesn't really advance your position.
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  #659  
Old 20.12.2012, 21:48
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Re: What the hell is going on with guns in the US?

Been following this conversation closely, as well as whatever links I am sent by friends or come across on Facebook, and admittedly I haven't yet come across any argument that is pro guns and remotely convincing.
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  #660  
Old 20.12.2012, 23:01
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Re: What the hell is going on with guns in the US?

I'm not from the US actually, I'm from Wales :-)
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