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  #701  
Old 22.12.2012, 15:37
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Re: What the hell is going on with guns in the US?

America, you are a democracy & whether you are one of the majority who would like more intelligent gun control or not, the simple fact is that until you get a grip on the minority of stupid white men that are the NRA, then my sympathies are lost on you. For god's sake, just grow a pair and stand up to these lunatics.
Armed guards or teachers in schools? I mean FFS - do you have even the tiniest idea of just how utterly mental that sounds to the rest of the world?

If Newtown had happened in Yemen or Indonesia or some such place, your state department would be advising you to leave, declaring it an unsafe country for US citizens.
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  #702  
Old 22.12.2012, 15:41
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Re: What the hell is going on with guns in the US?

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America, you are a democracy & whether you are one of the majority who would like more intelligent gun control or not, the simple fact is that until you get a grip on the minority of stupid white men that are the NRA, then my sympathies are lost on you. For god's sake, just grow a pair and stand up to these lunatics.
Armed guards or teachers in schools? I mean FFS - do you have even the tiniest idea of just how utterly mental that sounds to the rest of the world?

If Newtown had happened in Yemen or Indonesia or some such place, your state department would be advising you to leave, declaring it an unsafe country for US citizens.
nearly every school in Seattle seemed to have armed guards and metal detectors and gangs... we made the decision to bring our kid here to see if her education could be attained with out all that crap.
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  #703  
Old 22.12.2012, 15:48
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Re: What the hell is going on with guns in the US?

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Not too sure if it seems to "work" here as well.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of...ted_death_rate

IMO, Switzerland doesn't fare too well considering its low population and socio-economic and cultural diversity.
Switzerland and Finland are quite high

US Rate 10.2: 43% of the household owned a firearm
Finland Rate 3.6: 32% of the household owned a firearm
Switzerland Rate 3.5: 29% of the household owned a firearm
Italy Rate 1.28: 12%of the household owned a firearm

i.e. more firearms = firearm related death rate...(surprise!)
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  #704  
Old 22.12.2012, 18:24
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Re: What the hell is going on with guns in the US?

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A pro-gun argument.
But not a very good one.

For example, Switzerland appears nowhere on the list of the top ten countries with the lowest murder rates: http://www.mapsofworld.com/world-top...der-rates.html

Nor do one in two Swiss citizens have guns. As taken from http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gun_pol...n_Switzerland:

"Number of guns in circulation [in Switzerland] In some 2001 statistics, it is noted that there are about 420,000 assault rifles (fully automatic, or "selective fire") stored at private homes, mostly SIG SG 550 models. Additionally, there are some 320,000 semi-auto rifles and military pistols exempted from military service in private possession, all selective-fire weapons having been converted to semi-automatic operation only. In addition, there are several hundred thousand other semi-automatic small arms classified as carbines. The total number of firearms in private homes is estimated minimally at 1.2 million to 3 million.[7]
In 2005 over 10% of households contained handguns, compared to 18% of U.S. households that contained handguns. In 2005 almost 29% of households in Switzerland contained firearms of some kind, compared to almost 43% in the USA.[8]"

So there are far more civilian-owned guns (per capita) in the U.S. than there are here in Switzerland.

In fact, "With less than 5% of the world's population, the United States is home to roughly 35–50 per cent of the world's civilian-owned guns, heavily skewing the global geography of firearms and any relative comparison." (Source: http://www.guardian.co.uk/news/datab...hip-world-list)

The image above itself acknowledges a relationship between gun-ownership and crime rates. But if you look at the statistics, the fact that the U.S. has both more guns per capita and more crime suggests something quite the opposite of what the message in that image is trying to convey.

Last edited by Pancakes; 22.12.2012 at 21:25.
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  #705  
Old 22.12.2012, 19:02
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Re: Pennsylvania Shooting: Two killed at church, one on roadway

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.

Look at it like this, he could have used a knife, an axe, an airplane, a car.
JC
But guns are less "messy" and more detached than other ways. Strangulation and stabbing seem alot of physical work and not as good for knocking off multiple victims. Guns, on the other hand, give one a better chance at killing as many victims as possible while not taking nearly as much time, work and planning as making and planting a bomb. All that is needed is to go pick up a few guns at a local gun show or, better yet, raid Dad's personal gun collection...
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  #706  
Old 22.12.2012, 21:20
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Re: What the hell is going on with guns in the US?

http://opinionator.blogs.nytimes.com...armed-society/

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That incident brought home to me what I have always suspected, but found difficult to articulate: an armed society — especially as we prosecute it at the moment in this country — is the opposite of a civil society.
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After all, a population of privately armed citizens is one that is increasingly fragmented, and vulnerable as a result. Private gun ownership invites retreat into extreme individualism — I heard numerous calls for homeschooling in the wake of the Newtown shootings — and nourishes the illusion that I can be my own police, or military, as the case may be. The N.R.A. would have each of us steeled for impending government aggression, but it goes without saying that individually armed citizens are no match for government force. The N.R.A. argues against that interpretation of the Second Amendment that privileges armed militias over individuals, and yet it seems clear that armed militias, at least in theory, would provide a superior check on autocratic government.

As Michel Foucault pointed out in his detailed study of the mechanisms of power, nothing suits power so well as extreme individualism. In fact, he explains, political and corporate interests aim at nothing less than “individualization,” since it is far easier to manipulate a collection of discrete and increasingly independent individuals than a community. Guns undermine just that — community. Their pervasive, open presence would sow apprehension, suspicion, mistrust and fear, all emotions that are corrosive of community and civic cooperation. To that extent, then, guns give license to autocratic government.

Our gun culture promotes a fatal slide into extreme individualism. It fosters a society of atomistic individuals, isolated before power — and one another — and in the aftermath of shootings such as at Newtown, paralyzed with fear. That is not freedom, but quite its opposite. And as the Occupy movement makes clear, also the demonstrators that precipitated regime change in Egypt and Myanmar last year, assembled masses don’t require guns to exercise and secure their freedom, and wield world-changing political force. Arendt and Foucault reveal that power does not lie in armed individuals, but in assembly — and everything conducive to that.
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  #707  
Old 23.12.2012, 00:30
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Re: What the hell is going on with guns in the US?

Aftermath of the incident in Sandy Hook brought more paranoia amongst some citizens who think that a world is safer place with more guns around them: http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/arti...eady-kill.html

Irony of life!!!


Home protection: Avery, Miles, Gregg and Theresa, pictured, from Arizona have four rifles to protect themselves against a burglar


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  #708  
Old 23.12.2012, 02:41
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Re: What the hell is going on with guns in the US?

and then there's this
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  #709  
Old 23.12.2012, 03:35
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Re: What the hell is going on with guns in the US?

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Not too sure if it seems to "work" here as well.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of...ted_death_rate

IMO, Switzerland doesn't fare too well considering its low population and socio-economic and cultural diversity.
Your conclusion seems like a good example of confirmation bias to me.

Based on those gun-related figures, the US homicide rate is more than 7 times that of Switzerland. Yet you manage to conclude this is a black mark against Switzerland?

Not sure that the 'low population' should be significant. Also not sure about socio-economic and cultural diversity? There is famously plenty of cultural diversity in the US. If we want to be analytical, I'd have thought the higher levels of education and the general culture of safety and respect for rules in Switzerland might count more. I'd say these things create stronger social cohesion likely to explain the much lower figures.
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  #710  
Old 23.12.2012, 08:52
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Re: What the hell is going on with guns in the US?

This post just shows how much the USA has not progressed wjen there are examples of countries that have reduced ownership and gun possession making big steps forward in reducing crime related to this area. The USA continues to sprout teh its a right excuse which is utter bullocks as while guns dont kill allowing them into the hands of unskilled users does only increase the chance of their use on people.

The NRA is clearly in the pockets of the government and more interested in income then overall safety of the population
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  #711  
Old 23.12.2012, 10:11
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Re: What the hell is going on with guns in the US?

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Home protection: Avery, Miles, Gregg and Theresa, pictured, from Arizona have four rifles to protect themselves against a burglar

what, no frickin' laser beam mounted on the dog's head? That's an awfully wimpy dog for a bunch of gun totin' hicks....
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  #712  
Old 23.12.2012, 10:20
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Re: What the hell is going on with guns in the US?

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Aftermath of the incident in Sandy Hook brought more paranoia amongst some citizens who think that a world is safer place with more guns around them: http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/arti...eady-kill.html

Irony of life!!!


Home protection: Avery, Miles, Gregg and Theresa, pictured, from Arizona have four rifles to protect themselves against a burglar

It is precisely this backwards, hillbilly mentality that I moved here to get away from...

I'm starting to think that obsessive, delusional behavior is a by-product of generations of in-breeding.
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Old 23.12.2012, 10:21
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Re: What the hell is going on with guns in the US?

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what, no frickin' laser beam mounted on the dog's head? That's an awfully wimpy dog for a bunch of gun totin' hicks....
LOL. I actually thought the dog looks like he's thinking:

"Someone please come rescue me from these crazy fu*ks!"
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Old 23.12.2012, 14:23
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Re: What the hell is going on with guns in the US?

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It is precisely this backwards, hillbilly mentality that I moved here to get away from...

I'm starting to think that obsessive, delusional behavior is a by-product of generations of in-breeding.
If inbreeding was what you were trying to escape, Europe may not have been the best choice, Iceland in particular. when push comes to shove, the veneer of "civilization" is as thin in the EU as it is in America, but the problem with Americans is that they tend to live their lives as though they might be reality tv stars instead of keeping this sort of wacky shit to themselves.

And judging by the crazy shit going by on the parents mailing list for the town I live in, I have a deep sense of dread that I'm going to have to go to battle to keep armed guards or police off the campus of our schools....so it's not just the hicks that kinda have the crazies at the moment. It's easy to sit back and think you've managed to find a safe spot on the globe, but there is no place where this couldn't happen. My parents generation had it so easy....let the kids outside and only come home when the street lights come on. Nowadays everything is a mortal hazard if you believe the news. I worry less about the crazy hicks with guns than I do the pedophile pediatricians who get outed after 40 years of abusing young children.
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Old 23.12.2012, 14:26
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Re: What the hell is going on with guns in the US?

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Aftermath of the incident in Sandy Hook brought more paranoia amongst some citizens who think that a world is safer place with more guns around them: http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/arti...eady-kill.html

Irony of life!!!


Home protection: Avery, Miles, Gregg and Theresa, pictured, from Arizona have four rifles to protect themselves against a burglar

I, actually, see five rifles.
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  #716  
Old 23.12.2012, 18:26
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Re: What the hell is going on with guns in the US?

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It is precisely this backwards, hillbilly mentality that I moved here to get away from...

I'm starting to think that obsessive, delusional behavior is a by-product of generations of in-breeding.
Gregg's got a Garand M1 gotta admit that's pretty cool
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  #717  
Old 23.12.2012, 18:30
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Re: What the hell is going on with guns in the US?

In many parts of CH, Poptart, parents still let the kids play out until the lights come on- certainly it is the case here I am so happy to say.
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  #718  
Old 23.12.2012, 19:45
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Re: What the hell is going on with guns in the US?

And a cutlass!
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Old 23.12.2012, 21:41
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Re: What the hell is going on with guns in the US?

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I find the city of New York to be interesting. In 1990, over twenty two hundred murders were commited there. In 2011 they had 513. I do not doubt that more strict gun laws were a contributing factor that left New York city with a per capita murder rate of 6.4 per 100,000 inhabitants (2010). Not great but down considerably from 20 years prior. Other cities with high homicide rates have also instituted very strict gun control laws but did not see positive results. Chicago; 15.2, Washington D.C.; 20.9, Detroit; 34.5, and of course New Orleans with a per capita murder rate of 72.8 inhabitants being killed per 100,000! If it were it's own country it would be second on the list.

Obviously gun control has not been the cure all that it was hoped to be. What made New York so different from the other cities? I don't have that answer, but it shows me that a difference can be made. I don't believe that taking away the guns is the answer. We have so many already, and I don't feel that our society here is one that would allow it.
A decent licencing and registration system usually DOES help. If it does not, it simply means that some other things are a mess in a particular place. Simply realize that the gun-ownership-section in the Swiss Federal Constitution is a direct copy out of the USA Constitution. It however of course was supplemented by numerous Federal and Cantonal laws and regulations. The whole structure does NOT mean that all problems are solved and that gun-related crime in Switzerland is not possible. It obviously is not. But the general picture is acceptable.
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Old 23.12.2012, 21:45
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Re: What the hell is going on with guns in the US?

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A pro-gun argument.

NO argument as the figure is based on the military rifles, which you are NOT allowed to use and do not have the ammunition. And which is owned by the federal army and with you just "on loan"

If you deduct those tools, the rate gets down
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