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  #801  
Old 03.01.2013, 10:58
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Re: Impression of U.S. gun owners

...think we were just talking about insanity before, land of the free, freedom of speech, but gotta watch what you say or get shouted at, beaten up, sued or shot.
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  #802  
Old 03.01.2013, 11:30
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Re: Impression of U.S. gun owners

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I don't think you can really compare this. Switzerland has a highly
homogeneous society, and they deal with immigration issues
swifty and effectively.
I'm really not sure what illegal immigration has to do with crime, it's been proven over and over again that in Canada and the US, the immigrant population is less likely to commit crimes than those born there.

From the immigration policy centre

And Time magazine

If anything, that would just imply that Americans are dangerous... but not their immigrants.
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  #803  
Old 03.01.2013, 11:42
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Re: Impression of U.S. gun owners

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I'm really not sure what illegal immigration has to do with crime, it's been proven over and over again that in Canada and the US, the immigrant population is less likely to commit crimes than those born there.

From the immigration policy centre

And Time magazine

If anything, that would just imply that Americans are dangerous... but not their immigrants.
Obviously, you haven't lived in a border state. I think the first article
is a bit flawed. Ask yourself this question "Where do most of the illegal
drugs in the US come from?" They come through Mexico for the most
into Arizona, Texas, California, New Mexico.

They also come through the Carribean to New Orleans, Florida, and
other ports of call.

The drug trade brings a lot of gun violence with it.
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  #804  
Old 03.01.2013, 12:04
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Re: Impression of U.S. gun owners

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Ask yourself this question "Where do most of the illegal guns in Mexico come from?" They come into Mexico for the most from Arizona, Texas, California, New Mexico.
...
The gun trade brings a lot of violence with it.
Fixed that for you.
You may be tempted to use the chicken/egg argument, but Mexican politicians are pleading to the US for years now to stop/limit gun sales into their country.
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  #805  
Old 03.01.2013, 12:21
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Re: Impression of U.S. gun owners

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Fixed that for you.
You may be tempted to use the chicken/egg argument, but Mexican politicians are pleading to the US for years now to stop/limit gun sales into their country.
If illegals want guns, they will get them. If they don't get them
from the US, they will get them from Canada or someplace else.

Your logic is a little off. It is just not possible to fully police
a 4000+ kilometer border, not including oceans. If it were
that easy, they would have stopped the illegals coming into
the US to begin with.
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  #806  
Old 03.01.2013, 12:37
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Re: Impression of U.S. gun owners

The whole subject of Mexican drug cartels is beyond the scope of this thread, but the fact that they exist at all is because of widespread drug use and constant demand in North America (I'll not differentiate the US from Canada).

To have a supply chain, you need customers, end users; people who are willing to financially support the various stages of the product from production through to distribution. If society understood that drug abuse creates the cartels who utilize violence, thereby furthering firearms use, they'd see that governments alone cannot turn the tide.

This have / have-not society that exemplifies American society brings out the very worst in certain individuals that want to live the glitzy dream that they feel can be achieved with more Dollars. Money is god. Paid on Thursday, broke by Monday. Live for your pay check. Try to balance your credit cards, max out your loans. Spend, spend. It's a house of cards that is crumbling.
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  #807  
Old 03.01.2013, 12:41
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Re: Impression of U.S. gun owners

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Fixed that for you.
You may be tempted to use the chicken/egg argument, but Mexican politicians are pleading to the US for years now to stop/limit gun sales into their country.
you're missing a rather critical distinction here, which is that most of the US-sourced weapons turning up in Mexico were either (a) purchased legally by persons in the US and then smuggled illegally into Mexico by Mexican citizens (usually relatives of the purchaser who enter the US illegally to begin with), or (b) purchased legally by Mexican police and military authorities and then turned over illegally to the cartels (often when the Mexican police or military personnel defect). in other words, the US-based transactions are completely legal under both US and Mexican laws, the only transactions involving gun sales into Mexico are sales directly to the Mexican government, and the only crimes being committed are being committed by Mexican citizens on Mexican soil (either by bringing the weapons into the country illegally or by defection from the relevant governmental authorities).

the drug trade, on the other hand, is illegal under the laws of both Mexico and the US.
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  #808  
Old 03.01.2013, 13:13
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Re: Impression of U.S. gun owners

...so in summary, SNAFU, right?
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  #809  
Old 03.01.2013, 13:26
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Re: Impression of U.S. gun owners

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you're missing a rather critical distinction here, which is that most of the US-sourced weapons turning up in Mexico were either (a) purchased legally by persons in the US and then smuggled illegally into Mexico by Mexican citizens (usually relatives of the purchaser who enter the US illegally to begin with), or (b) purchased legally by Mexican police and military authorities and then turned over illegally to the cartels (often when the Mexican police or military personnel defect). in other words, the US-based transactions are completely legal under both US and Mexican laws, the only transactions involving gun sales into Mexico are sales directly to the Mexican government, and the only crimes being committed are being committed by Mexican citizens on Mexican soil (either by bringing the weapons into the country illegally or by defection from the relevant governmental authorities).

the drug trade, on the other hand, is illegal under the laws of both Mexico and the US.
Thus, following your logic, it would be absolutely OK from a US perspective if Mexico would legalize the sale of hard drugs within Mexico? I somehow doubt that any US administration would accept that. And it is exactly that kind of double standard that irks me.
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  #810  
Old 03.01.2013, 13:35
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Re: Impression of U.S. gun owners

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The whole subject of Mexican drug cartels is beyond the scope of this thread, but the fact that they exist at all is because of widespread drug use and constant demand in North America (I'll not differentiate the US from Canada).
You're right - it is
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  #811  
Old 03.01.2013, 13:46
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Re: Impression of U.S. gun owners

I understand that my posts have been deleted because this is not the "Mexicanforum.com". OK, I get that.
Before I miss another important element in the forum etiquette: This is the Off-topic - International affairs section of the EF, in which abuse of guns in the US was (and still is, even after the Moderator's intervention) closely linked to drug trafficking and illegal immigrants from Mexico into the US, right ?
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  #812  
Old 03.01.2013, 13:50
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Re: Impression of U.S. gun owners

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I understand that my posts have been deleted because this is not the "Mexicanforum.com". OK, I get that.
Before I miss another important element in the forum etiquette: This is the Off-topic - International affairs section of the EF, in which abuse of guns in the US was (and still is, even after the Moderator's intervention) closely linked to drug trafficking and illegal immigrants from Mexico into the US, right ?
Oops - noob error

This thread started life in "Daily Life" and there was a discussion about moving it to OT, which I thought it hadn't been. But it has been. Sorry all


(Note to self - check forums in future)
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  #813  
Old 03.01.2013, 13:59
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Re: Impression of U.S. gun owners

The original question was "My question to all of you is how do you feel about Switzerland being used as an arguement for U.S. gun ownership? Also, what is your impression of gun advocates in the U.S.?"

South of the border here is Italy.
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  #814  
Old 03.01.2013, 14:13
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Re: Impression of U.S. gun owners

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abuse of guns in the US was (and still is, even after the Moderator's intervention) closely linked to drug trafficking and illegal immigrants from Mexico into the US, right ?
I guess we have to logon to the Mexican forum next time.

99.9% of gun owners are respectable and law abiding people.
Unfortunately, it only takes one nut job to ruin it for others.

I think the law should be tightened so people like the guy
in Colorado( Who visited mental health professionals ) and
Adam Lanza( who had mental issues ) cannot get guns.

It will never be perfect though.
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  #815  
Old 03.01.2013, 14:39
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Re: Impression of U.S. gun owners

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you're missing a rather critical distinction here, which is that most of the US-sourced weapons turning up in Mexico were either (a) purchased legally by persons in the US and then smuggled illegally into Mexico by Mexican citizens (usually relatives of the purchaser who enter the US illegally to begin with), or (b) purchased legally by Mexican police and military authorities and then turned over illegally to the cartels (often when the Mexican police or military personnel defect). in other words, the US-based transactions are completely legal under both US and Mexican laws, the only transactions involving gun sales into Mexico are sales directly to the Mexican government, and the only crimes being committed are being committed by Mexican citizens on Mexican soil (either by bringing the weapons into the country illegally or by defection from the relevant governmental authorities).

the drug trade, on the other hand, is illegal under the laws of both Mexico and the US.
The transaction is often legal, but the origin of the money is indeed highly questionable, often coming from a bigger player: the drugs business, which is also the cause of the bulk of the crimes.

As for illegal alliens crossing from the south border, they would probably not enter the country if they had no chance to find an equally illegal job there.
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  #816  
Old 03.01.2013, 15:35
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Re: Anti gun newspaper hires armed guards

It would only be propaganda if it weren't true. I thought that it was interesting (and still think that it's ironic).
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  #817  
Old 03.01.2013, 16:56
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Re: Anti gun newspaper hires armed guards

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The newspaper that published the addresses of all handgun permit holders in it's city has now decided to hire armed guards to deal with the backlash.
... you were expecting that they would hire Ninja's?
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Old 03.01.2013, 18:13
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Re: Impression of U.S. gun owners

[QUOTE=HollidayG;1757352]If illegals want guns, they will get them. If they don't get them
from the US, they will get them from Canada or someplace else.

Your logic is a little off. It is just not possible to fully police
a 4000+ kilometer border, not including oceans. If it were
that easy, they would have stopped the illegals coming into
the US to begin with.[/QUOTE]

CanadaI didn't know that
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  #819  
Old 03.01.2013, 18:23
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Re: Impression of U.S. gun owners

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Thus, following your logic, it would be absolutely OK from a US perspective if Mexico would legalize the sale of hard drugs within Mexico? I somehow doubt that any US administration would accept that. And it is exactly that kind of double standard that irks me.
and of course the US administration would have no recourse whatsoever except to refuse aid and other forms of assistance to the Mexican government, meaning that the US would have no recourse at all unless the Mexican government relies upon that aid and other assistance.
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  #820  
Old 03.01.2013, 19:02
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Re: Impression of U.S. gun owners

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If illegals want guns, they will get them. If they don't get them
from the US, they will get them from Canada or someplace else.
Do people seriously think part of the problem is illegal immigrants with guns from Canada? In this economy? Why would anyone from Canada want to illegally immigrate to the US? It would be like an American illegally immigrating to Mexico.

I remember flying to Chicago from Toronto a few years ago, and being held at customs for extra questions. I had a great sense of humour about it since I knew Chicago (about the same size as Toronto) had over 500 murders that year and Toronto had about 60. And they were scrutinizing the female immigrant Canadian (For those who don't know, this is basically the demographic least likely to commit crimes in both Canada and the USA)

I say the problem with gun killings in the US has to do with irrational fear.
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