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  #1241  
Old 19.01.2013, 13:32
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Re: New NRA Ad: Are the Presidents kids mor important than yours?

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While most of us will not live in fear or sleep with half an eye open, I have recently heard about a well-to-do familyman, who looks totally carefree and easy going, but he goes to bed with a .45 under his pillow. He lives in LA.
Why?
Because he is scared?

And why is the gentleman scared? I suspect because of the culture he finds himself in where owning and using these lethal weapons is a commonplace (compared with what I'm used to, anyway).

It is too simplistic to think of guns being a simple antidote to the disease. Guns are the disease. Or they have helped cause the disease.

Just to recall a point I made a long time ago in this combined thread, I'm not so stupid to think there is an easy answer to this. I'm not someone who calls for an overnight ban on all guns.

Resolving this problem will take at least a generation. It requires very cool heads. It requires cooperation with the NRA which might take years to establish. It requires an acknowledgment that the current trend is the road to hell. It requires a workable plan that, over a period of time, will result in the elimination of certain types of weapon in personal possession. It requires a plan that does not result in some groups losing face.

One thing I know is that buying more guns than the other guy, then having to buy more powerful guns than the other guy, and so on, deeper into gun hell, is not a long term answer.
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  #1242  
Old 19.01.2013, 13:46
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Re: What the hell is going on with guns in the US?

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Come on MF, That's a hopeless analogy. I expect better from you.

Of course the world is full of objects that are potentially lethal. But specialised weaponry -- objects designed with the express purpose of instant killing and terrorising -- need special treatment and regulation.

Let's suppose we all carried a pill that if taken, would instantly and painlessly cause death. How many of us would still be alive? How many of us have not experienced a period of intense misery or hopelessness when we wouldn;t have reached for that pill to end it all? Or possibly to use it to kill someone else?

The suicide rate is relatively low because it's actually not that easy to kill oneself quickly and painlessly.

Guns account for a disproportionate number of suicides and murders because they are easy to use, and highly likely to be lethal compared with a pencil or even a kitchen knife. It's because they are so potent that they need to be considered a special category of object.

I'm not trying to make an argument for banning guns (obviously there are legitimate uses for guns). But understand that you can't build a pro-gun argument by talking about your pencil injury. It doesn't work. I've no problem with you being in favour of gun ownership, but use a better line of reasoning. Respectfully, that one is built on sand.
Pachyderm, please read post number 1228. I'm not and never have been pro gun. I don't see any legitimate use for guns or any other weapons except for killing or maiming your fellow humans and discimating the wildlife for no good reason other than people seem to think it's "fun".

I would argue that it's very easy to kill yourself quickly and painlessly. A bottle of vodka or whiskey and a few handfuls of aspirins and you're gone. The suicide rate is low because of the religious taboo that's been ingrained in all of us since birth that taking your own life is a no no. Unfortunately we don't seem to feel the same about the "thou shalt not kill" idea.
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  #1243  
Old 19.01.2013, 13:46
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Re: THE US Gun Control & Second Amendment Thread

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And some links dont prove what the poster is implying
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  #1244  
Old 19.01.2013, 14:01
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And some links dont prove what the poster is implying
The article said that rules of lateralization don't really apply. That seemed clear to me. But ok. Whatever.
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Old 20.01.2013, 22:25
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Re: New NRA Ad: Are the Presidents kids mor important than yours?

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Because he is scared?

And why is the gentleman scared? I suspect because of the culture he finds himself in where owning and using these lethal weapons is a commonplace (compared with what I'm used to, anyway).

It is too simplistic to think of guns being a simple antidote to the disease. Guns are the disease. Or they have helped cause the disease.

Just to recall a point I made a long time ago in this combined thread, I'm not so stupid to think there is an easy answer to this. I'm not someone who calls for an overnight ban on all guns.

Resolving this problem will take at least a generation. It requires very cool heads. It requires cooperation with the NRA which might take years to establish. It requires an acknowledgment that the current trend is the road to hell. It requires a workable plan that, over a period of time, will result in the elimination of certain types of weapon in personal possession. It requires a plan that does not result in some groups losing face.

One thing I know is that buying more guns than the other guy, then having to buy more powerful guns than the other guy, and so on, deeper into gun hell, is not a long term answer.
I agree with many of these points here.

I would like to add the following in a respectful and cool headed manner.

Lets say 30 years ago, I am sure the number of guns and gun-owners in America and other parts of the world (where guns are permitted) are significantly less than today.
Why is this so?

My speculation is:
1. More mass production of guns (cheaper)
2. Easier access to guns and buying them legally with little background checks
3. Easier access to "marketing" in the form of online sales, online tv and most importantly video games featuring guns
4. Consumerism and higher stress in society, insecurity in people's mind
5. Distrust of authorities and people want to protect themselves, themselves (not trusting the police)
6. The list goes on....

Now 30 years ago, there were also less civilian gun massacres and reported incidents. Why?
I strongly believe, the pro-gun NRA and many of their members are already gun-owners 30 years back. They were enjoying their hobbies and "state of mental security wellbeing" before the onslaught of GTA, Zombies shooting games, badmouthing wrestlemania in-your-face streettalks, more gun movies, etc etc.
What is the main difference?
I believe it is the change of society and not the guns which changed.
I am talking about the NEW gun-owners. They can be very dangerous to themselves and others. Many do not keep their firearms locked up.

Modern guns have indeed become more powerful and lethal, but so have the number of untrained people who can own them.

My take on the situation is this: they really need to tighten up gun ownership, in terms of background checks and that these owners are really trained and qualified to use them as recreational hobby tools or they are ready to shoot an intruder or a gang of thugs raping a defenseless person in the carpark.
During this training and background checks, they need to assess the mental health of the person and the family members (who can have access to the guns).

Now, will banning certain guns or restricting high-cap magazines help?
Yes, it may help or it may make things worse.

Did we read about how the new proposed laws forgot to exclude policemen from having more than 10 rounds in their magazines?

I have seen youtubes of trained gun-people reloading magazines quicker than the policeman can draw his weapon.

10-rounds or 30 rounds, it is not going to stop a mad man on a rampage. He just buys more magazines and the government collects more VAT.

This tells me, the Obama's so-called Taskforce led by Biden, is ridden with lots of "holes" in it.
It is at most a knee-jerk politics-scoring exercise and perhaps an easy end to the witch hunt since the school tragedy happened.

Thank you for reading. I am not perfect in voicing my thoughts over text, but I just want to share them here.

Having a right to bear arms, and having it taken away is similar to having your driving license and car impounded because your neighbour crashed his car into school children because he was mad or drunk. A bad analogy?
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  #1246  
Old 21.01.2013, 05:42
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Re: New NRA Ad: Are the Presidents kids mor important than yours?

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Lets say 30 years ago, I am sure the number of guns and gun-owners in America and other parts of the world (where guns are permitted) are significantly less than today.Why is this so?
Now 30 years ago, there were also less civilian gun massacres and reported incidents. Why??
The 70's had the 2nd highest level of violence in US History in schools, just for example, and the 80's weren't as safe as you think, going back 30 years as you are quoting, here is a list...
1970s
The two most notable U.S. school shootings in the early 1970s were the Jackson State killings in May 1970, where police opened fire on the campus of Jackson State University and the Kent State shootings also in May 1970 where the National Guard opened fire on the campus of Kent State University.[citation needed]

The mid to late 1970s is considered the second most violent period in U.S. school history with a series of school shootings,
  • February 2, 1971: Philadelphia, Pennsylvania Teacher Samson L. Freedman, 56, was shot to death as he left Morris E. Leeds School, by Kevin Simmons, 14. Freedman had suspended Simmons earlier in the day for cursing in the hallway.[97]
  • November 8, 1971: Grove, Oklahoma School custodian, Jim "James" Underwood brought a .22-caliber revolver to school hidden in a brown paper bag. School principal, T.J. Melton, 49, was shot in the left shoulder, left ear and in the top of his head, according to published reports. He died around 9 a.m. and Underwood was charged the next day with first-degree murder.[98]
  • November 11, 1971: Spokane, Washington Former MIT student Larry J. Harmon, 21, entered St. Aloysius Roman Catholic Church on the Gonzaga University campus armed with a .22 caliber rifle. Harmon killed the caretaker, 68-year-old Hilary Kunz, and upon merging from the church, wounded four more people before police officers shot and killed him. Harmon was described by his father as a religious fanatic who believed that he had seen the devil and that Christ was an imposter.[99]
  • January 5, 1972: Washington, DC Fifth-grade teacher Margaret Brooks, 57, was shot to death in front of her students by her estranged husband James A. Brooks.[100]
  • January 17, 1974: Chicago, Illinois Elementary school principal Rudolph Jezek, Jr., 52, was shot to death in his office by Steven Guy, 14, a former student said to be angry at being transferred from the school to a social adjustment center.[101]
  • December 30, 1974: Olean, New York Regents scholar Anthony Barbaro, 17, armed with a rifle and shotgun, kills three adults and wounds 11 others at his high school, which was closed for the Christmas holiday. Barbaro was reportedly a loner who kept a diary describing several "battle plans" for his attack on the school.[102][103]
  • September 11, 1975: Oklahoma City, Oklahoma U.S. Grant High School student Randy Truitt was shot and killed by James Briggs at the school, leaving several others injured.[104]
  • February 12, 1976: Detroit, Michigan Intruders shot five Murray-Wright High School students after an apparent dispute over one of the intruders girlfriends.[105]
  • June 12, 1976: California State University, Fullerton massacre Custodian Edward Charles Allaway, 37, opened fire with a semi-automatic rifle in the library on the California State University, Fullerton campus killing 7, and wounding 2.[citation needed]
  • November 10, 1976: Detroit, Michigan Second grade teacher Bettye McCaster, 45, was shot to death in front of her 29 students at Burt Elementary School, by her estranged husband, Al Lewis.[106]
  • April 7, 1977: Whitharral, Texas High School principal M.O. Tripp was shot to death on the front steps of the school by Ricardo Lopez, 17.[107]
  • February 9, 1978: St. Albans, West Virginia A 15-year-old student was shot and killed by another student at Hayes Junior High School.[citation needed]
  • February 22, 1978: Lansing, Michigan After being taunted for his beliefs, a 15-year-old self-proclaimed Nazi, kills one student and wounds a second with a Luger pistol.[103]
  • May 18, 1978: Austin, Texas John Daniel Christian, 13, son of Lyndon B. Johnson's former press secretary George Christian, shot to death his English teacher, Wilbur Grayson, 29, with his father's .22 caliber rifle in front of approximately 30 classmates. John Christian was never prosecuted and is now a practicing attorney in Austin, Texas.[108]
  • January 29, 1979: San Diego, California Brenda Ann Spencer opens fire on Grover Cleveland Elementary School from the window of her home across the street, killing 2 adults and wounding 9 others, 8 of whom were children.[citation needed]
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  #1247  
Old 21.01.2013, 05:43
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Re: THE US Gun Control & Second Amendment Thread

continued...
[edit] 1980s


March 26, 1980: Big Rapids, Michigan Robert Brauer, Business Professor, was shot by student Thomas Kakonis, 20, at Ferris State College. Robert Brauer had failed Kakonis on an examination. Kakonis was the son of an associate dean at the college.[109]



April 7, 1982: Littleton, Colorado, Deer Creek Jr. High School student Jason Rocha, 14, shot and killed Scott Darwin Michael, 13.[110]According to the Center to Prevent Handgun Violence, in the United States, from September 1986 to September 1990:[111]
  • At least 71 people (65 students and 6 school employees) had been killed with guns at school.
  • 201 were severely wounded by gun fire.
  • 242 individuals were held hostage at gunpoint.
According to a 1987 survey conducted by the American School Health Association,[112] " 3% of the boys reported having carried a handgun to school at least once during the school year; 1% reported carrying a handgun on a daily basis."




The late 1980s began to see a major increase in school shootings, including:How much longer does this list need to go?

You want to analyze a drunk driver to someone that goes and shoots people.- Well the fact is, we have changed what the legal limits are on alcohol drinking an driving, enforced serving and cut off to people past their limits at bars, increased the fine and penalties for drunken drivers, made it a criminal offense to kill someone while drunk, encouraged programs like MADD, and the number of drunk driving related deaths and accidents has significantly dropped.

So what is to stop us to make the responsibility of owning a weapon more serious and regulated, like we did with cars and alcohol, to bring down accidental and intentional deaths?
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  #1248  
Old 21.01.2013, 10:07
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3 kids and parents killed in shooting: New Mexico

A 15 years old boy has been arrested in a shooting of 5 members of a family in New Mexico.

Youngest was 2 years old.

CBC News
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Old 21.01.2013, 10:20
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Re: THE US Gun Control & Second Amendment Thread

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You want to analyze a drunk driver to someone that goes and shoots people.-

Well the fact is, we have changed what the legal limits are on alcohol drinking an driving, enforced serving and cut off to people past their limits at bars, increased the fine and penalties for drunken drivers, made it a criminal offense to kill someone while drunk, encouraged programs like MADD, and the number of drunk driving related deaths and accidents has significantly dropped.

So what is to stop us to make the responsibility of owning a weapon more serious and regulated, like we did with cars and alcohol, to bring down accidental and intentional deaths?
Thanks for the history listing and I agree more can be done WISELY.

Allow me to expand on our discussion. I am focusing more on "Mad and Insane" people. Drivers with alcohol problems is a bad analogy. I meant insane people bent on carrying out mass murders. Usually alcohol can tip them over the zone.

In most of the shootings (I assume), are cases of mentally insane people taking a weapon and shooting people.
If there are no guns, what will these same people use next? Petrol bombs?
Dirty homemade devices?

A smaller capacity magazine will not stop a mad man.
There are already fully-automatic firearms restrictions to civilians. These rules make sense.

I believe the NRA believes any kind of restrictions is just the beginning of eventual blanket bans on any firearms, and therefore they fight it.
Please don't get me wrong, I am no NRA.
I just feel it is a little unfair to hundreds of thousands of law-abiding drivers and gun-owners, when they have to be restricted because of a handful of abusers of their tools. NRA is USA. USA is main champion of freedom of anything, remember?
I agree the shooting of any innocent people is horrific.
More can be done and should be done asap.

My only question and many people have the same question is: no guns, then what next? What is the average Joe going to do, when he is stripped of his personal firearm and he "needs" it in an emergency to save himself or his family? (just a question, not saying people feel safer with guns, but in some cases, policemen are simply too far away to be useful).
Some say it is not "no guns", it is less rounds per magazine.
Now lets see, will a criminal follow the law and carry only 1 magazine with 10 rounds? Hmm, I don't know. Just don't know.
Many say a .45 is better than a loadfull of 9mm. 1 powerful shot downs the intruder instead of multiple small ones.

Obama has his armed bodyguards, do you?
The world is not suddenly gonna be safer, just because some papers say people cannot own this or that weapon anymore.
It is almost naive to think that, and all people including Obama knows this.

Re-educating the masses, bringing back Godly living (respect life and love thy neighbours etc), better mental healthcare, stress less living, etc etc....is the real solution.
Taking away some dangerous guns is also a bridge, I totally agree.
Now, does the policy makers know a 1911 from a Glock?
Sadly, THAT is the main problem.


PS: Many people are overwhelmed by the innocent young lives taken by a mad man. I am too.
They should be aware of the bigger picture before jumping onto any wagen who imply guns is the problem.
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Old 21.01.2013, 10:23
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Re: 3 kids and parents killed in shooting: New Mexico

Somehow I have nothing new to say because I've become anesthetized to the groundless killings and senseless gun violence.

Still, you can rest assured that lots of vitriolic hate mail will be sent to President Obama for attempting start to turn the tide against the violence rather than people taking their own responsibility when it comes to gun control.
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Old 21.01.2013, 10:37
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Re: 3 kids and parents killed in shooting: New Mexico

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A 15 years old boy has been arrested in a shooting of 5 members of a family in New Mexico.

Youngest was 2 years old.

CBC News
Another sad day. I register my condolences for the people impacted by this madness.

A 15-yr old getting access to guns and being "violent" and killing 5 people.
I'd blame the gunowner for not securing his firearms from this young man or any young unauthorised person.

Yes, many gunowners are like this. They should be banned and perhaps even charged for their action.

Headlines = "Another GUN violence".
Or "Another mad deluded young man killer".

Which headline is selling more newspapers?


Now fast forward a little. Will the proposed new gun rules, be effective in stopping this young man?

I don't know the exact details, but he could have used a simple low powered gun with limited magazines, and still kill 5 people.
It is very easy to kill 5 people with that configuration if you know how.

The debate continues. Oh dear.
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Old 21.01.2013, 10:48
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Re: THE US Gun Control & Second Amendment Thread

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...You want to analyze a drunk driver to someone that goes and shoots people.- Well the fact is, we have changed what the legal limits are on alcohol drinking an driving, enforced serving and cut off to people past their limits at bars, increased the fine and penalties for drunken drivers, made it a criminal offense to kill someone while drunk, encouraged programs like MADD, and the number of drunk driving related deaths and accidents has significantly dropped.
One of the key points that you missed (on top of your great summary), is the attitude change in society. In short, it is now deemed "wrong" to drink and drive, whereas prior to the campaign it was no big deal.

This has taken years to get through to people.

One example of this - taken from the UK where drinking to excess is de rigueur - is that the only two excuses that are acceptable for not drinking are "I'm pregnant" and "I'm driving". Sad but true.

Anyway, until you get such an attitude shift, the debate about gun control will forever continue to rage.
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Old 21.01.2013, 11:04
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Re: THE US Gun Control & Second Amendment Thread

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A 5-year-old girl was suspended from school earlier this week after she made what the school called a "terrorist threat."
Her weapon of choice? A small, Hello Kitty automatic bubble blower.
Are we going mad?

http://gma.yahoo.com/blogs/abc-blogs...opstories.html

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Old 21.01.2013, 11:07
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Re: THE US Gun Control & Second Amendment Thread

Have you ever noticed that its very difficult to argue with a lot of Americans about any subject whatsoever before they start to question "and who the hell are you?". If you question their long stand beliefs in anything that they consider to be a part of their DNA, they become very conservative and lose any ability to discuss their actual beliefs in any coherent way. Even when I play the devil's advocate with them to try and bring them out of their shells, I often end up with either prolonged silences or bombastic counter arguments that try to nuke my thought process into smithereens.

I remember this one flight from New York to Atlanta many moons ago when I was just chatting with the guy next to me and taking on a less than western approach about the Gulf War to try and make the debate interesting. He eventually accused me of being a communist at the top of his voice and indignantly moved to another seat. I'm more of a capitalist than the next guy in line, but the point was that he was unable to grasp the concept of debate.

Looking back in history, many Americans also seem to have lost the ability to debate and therefore turn to their favored tool of conversation killing - the gun. Abe Lincoln, JFK, Martin Luther King, John Lennon, the list is potentially endless. Why not encourage debate at schools, the pro and con aspects of accepting and understanding other people's point of view would be a great basis for tolerance and a calmer demeanor?

(Footnote: That great uncelebrated event, Martin Luther King day, is today, Jan 21, 2013)
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Old 21.01.2013, 11:15
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(Footnote: That great uncelebrated event, Martin Luther King day, is today, Jan 21, 2013)
Excellent post! I wholeheartedly agree. The concept of freedom for all doesnt extend to even discussing something which flies against the norm
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Old 21.01.2013, 11:18
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Re: THE US Gun Control & Second Amendment Thread

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Have you ever noticed that its very difficult to argue with a lot of Americans about any subject whatsoever before they start to question "and who the hell are you?". If you question their long stand beliefs in anything that they consider to be a part of their DNA, they become very conservative and lose any ability to discuss their actual beliefs in any coherent way. Even when I play the devil's advocate with them to try and bring them out of their shells, I often end up with either prolonged silences or bombastic counter arguments that try to nuke my thought process into smithereens.

I remember this one flight from New York to Atlanta many moons ago when I was just chatting with the guy next to me and taking on a less than western approach about the Gulf War to try and make the debate interesting. He eventually accused me of being a communist at the top of his voice and indignantly moved to another seat. I'm more of a capitalist than the next guy in line, but the point was that he was unable to grasp the concept of debate.

Looking back in history, many Americans also seem to have lost the ability to debate and therefore turn to their favored tool of conversation killing - the gun. Abe Lincoln, JFK, Martin Luther King, John Lennon, the list is potentially endless. Why not encourage debate at schools, the pro and con aspects of accepting and understanding other people's point of view would be a great basis for tolerance and a calmer demeanor.

(Footnote: That great uncelebrated event, Martin Luther King day, is today, Jan 21, 2013)
I thought that with the women at least, they wouldn't discuss it was because of the time of the month and they were a bit irritable.

Otherwise, why would they say, "I, not willing to discuss gun control. Period"?
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Old 21.01.2013, 15:16
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Re: THE US Gun Control & Second Amendment Thread

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Have you ever noticed that its very difficult to argue with a lot of Americans about any subject whatsoever before they start to question "and who the hell are you?". If you question their long stand beliefs in anything that they consider to be a part of their DNA, they become very conservative and lose any ability to discuss their actual beliefs in any coherent way. Even when I play the devil's advocate with them to try and bring them out of their shells, I often end up with either prolonged silences or bombastic counter arguments that try to nuke my thought process into smithereens.

I remember this one flight from New York to Atlanta many moons ago when I was just chatting with the guy next to me and taking on a less than western approach about the Gulf War to try and make the debate interesting. He eventually accused me of being a communist at the top of his voice and indignantly moved to another seat. I'm more of a capitalist than the next guy in line, but the point was that he was unable to grasp the concept of debate.

Looking back in history, many Americans also seem to have lost the ability to debate and therefore turn to their favored tool of conversation killing - the gun. Abe Lincoln, JFK, Martin Luther King, John Lennon, the list is potentially endless. Why not encourage debate at schools, the pro and con aspects of accepting and understanding other people's point of view would be a great basis for tolerance and a calmer demeanor?

(Footnote: That great uncelebrated event, Martin Luther King day, is today, Jan 21, 2013)
During a visit to Sicily I got to know a judge from New Jersey and discussed things American until late in the nights. In his experience as a judge, he said many Americans are so insecure in their beliefs and social image, they would rather turn to violence than have them challenged by anyone, even family or themselves.

The other major element, he said, is all that surrounds proving oneself a "Real Man", usually through the readiness to violence, showing off their possessions and denigrating others in order to elevate themselves. He said that even in court, faced with long sentences, even execution, they won't come to their senses, preferring to face it being a "Real Man".
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Old 21.01.2013, 15:52
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Re: THE US Gun Control & Second Amendment Thread

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Have you ever noticed that its very difficult to argue with a lot of Americans about any subject whatsoever before they start to question "and who the hell are you?". If you question their long stand beliefs in anything that they consider to be a part of their DNA, they become very conservative and lose any ability to discuss their actual beliefs in any coherent way.

(Footnote: That great uncelebrated event, Martin Luther King day, is today, Jan 21, 2013)
A friend of mine, once known by nothing other then being a full fledged gangster, is now a Minister. And it seems all the reasons why he came over to teaching people in prison about discussing one's problems, showing understanding, and so on, has been altered be in effect preaching to the choir. Everyone around him has a limited understanding of the world, wether my lack of education or being blasted about the Bible since being a toddler and recycling the info back and forth amongst one another. He even home schools his kids, but is un able to tell me where Syria is located on the map. As he admits it is not information that he has pulled from his local community.

He is one of the most intelligent people I know, and was given a bad hand in life, and has turned himself around. He was an amazing debater. But now, because he is surrounded by "likeminded" "Christians".

He and a friend have a podcast where they discuss current issues and Christianity. And each broadcast is filled with untrue facts, that they both then go on to agree with each other in directions based on false info.

For example, the gun control debate. My friend brought up that I an American, was living in Switzerland, and I had thoughts about the issue. And the other countered that they didn't even need to discuss what I thought, because Switzerland should have no say in the US Constitution, and that anyways, Switzerland had no guns, and had no army, because the US military protected Switzerland. They then went on to discuss this point. One that doesn't exist. My friend not noting that I am in fact a tax paying US citizen. And I hear back slappers doing it all the time, especially on Facebook.

It's far easier to find a herd that you can get into, and just agree with each other, and when you run into a group of "liberal" or "commies", no matter if I either "herd" make any useful points, just vehemently oppose the other person's point of view, until the pointing of things getting nasty.
It's why it is mind blowingly hard to have a discussion with anyone about changing anything. People act so upset with Congress that they say insane things, and refuse to move from their positions, and get any real work done, but when there are a lot of people in the country that are exactly the same, how can anyone expect anything different?

My brother is the same. If I give a little in an argument, he won't. Ever. If I argue in favor of a point he normally makes, he still won't agree with me. Then instead of discussing real facts, and how to come to conclusion about getting a result to go forward, I will get bombarded with useless anecdotes. And this is really speaking about a lot of people I have been arguing with about gun control.

Using references about if someone is obese, is it the fault of the fork...seriously. All this belittling and when they don't get their way, throwing their hands up and literally walking away from the conversation. I totally agree with you Assassin.
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Old 21.01.2013, 16:07
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Re: THE US Gun Control & Second Amendment Thread

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During a visit to Sicily I got to know a judge from New Jersey and discussed things American until late in the nights. In his experience as a judge, he said many Americans are so insecure in their beliefs and social image, they would rather turn to violence than have them challenged by anyone, even family or themselves.

The other major element, he said, is all that surrounds proving oneself a "Real Man", usually through the readiness to violence, showing off their possessions and denigrating others in order to elevate themselves. He said that even in court, faced with long sentences, even execution, they won't come to their senses, preferring to face it being a "Real Man".
I think there's a lot to those comments. Americans have this vision of a picture perfect life and anything that doesn't fit that ideal must be something terrible so they'd rather not face it. Hence the increasing plastic surgeries, teeth fixing, etc, to achieve perfection. But if they weren't so insecure in the first place they wouldn't need to change themselves.

"Real Men" not only have a need to brandish a gun around, but often also bully their wives and children. Women should be good, obidient wives who stay at home, cooking, cleaning, looking after the kids and having a cold beer ready when the "Real Man" comes home from work. They feel threatened by women going out and doing "men's work". Unfortunately, it's still a very prevelent attitude in the US.
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Old 21.01.2013, 16:54
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Re: THE US Gun Control & Second Amendment Thread

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I think there's a lot to those comments. Americans have this vision of a picture perfect life and anything that doesn't fit that ideal must be something terrible so they'd rather not face it. Hence the increasing plastic surgeries, teeth fixing, etc, to achieve perfection. But if they weren't so insecure in the first place they wouldn't need to change themselves.

"Real Men" not only have a need to brandish a gun around, but often also bully their wives and children. Women should be good, obidient wives who stay at home, cooking, cleaning, looking after the kids and having a cold beer ready when the "Real Man" comes home from work. They feel threatened by women going out and doing "men's work". Unfortunately, it's still a very prevelent attitude in the US.
Hugh? Are you in the 50's? 1850's maybe? What kind of strange view is that?
And if we are basing a country's un ability to have discussions, then what does it say about these other countries and their citizens who use plastic surgery? http://abcnews.go.com/Health/niptuck...ry?id=16205231

The fact is ALOT of people in the US are obese...why am I even dignifying your post with a reply?
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