Go Back   English Forum Switzerland > Off-Topic > Off-Topic > International affairs/politics
Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
  #1361  
Old 02.02.2013, 15:58
marton's Avatar
Forum Legend
 
Join Date: May 2008
Location: Kt. Zürich
Posts: 8,564
Groaned at 246 Times in 212 Posts
Thanked 11,553 Times in 6,309 Posts
marton has a reputation beyond reputemarton has a reputation beyond reputemarton has a reputation beyond reputemarton has a reputation beyond reputemarton has a reputation beyond reputemarton has a reputation beyond repute
Re: THE US Gun Control & Second Amendment Thread

Quote:
View Post
Look at the facts;

The article indicates that there was bad blood between the participants already, but in this instance, the facts seem pretty clear

1. 5 against one.
2. They broke into his house with the intent to kill him or do him serious bodily harm.
3. He had already locked himself in and called the police for help.

What else could he have done at that point? would it have been better if he had said; "Okay, I don't want to hurt you guys, so I'm going to lay down my best means of defense and say pretty please don't kill me?"

It seems to me that once they put themselves in the role of attacker they chose to expose themselves to the possibility that heir victim was going to be able to fight back, with possible lethal consequences.

When the door was kicked down, he had every right to protect himself, and to fight back to the maximum extent that he was capable, including shooting at them as they were running away. Remember, unlike Switzerland, the US and Canada are BIG. The response time for police can be over an hour in some rural areas. and he was still outnumbered and on his own at that point.

In my opinion, they had no reasonable expectation of mercy once they had made their intent clear.

I know that it sounds cold, but I believe that if I were in his situation barricaded, cops already called, out numbered by 500%, guys kicking in locked doors to get to me, no idea when the police would show up, I would do the same thing.
According to the newspaper report I read they not only kicked in his house door but also his bedroom door.

I support what he did.
Whether he will have a long life or become a revenge victim I have no clue.
Reply With Quote
The following 3 users would like to thank marton for this useful post:
  #1362  
Old 02.02.2013, 17:00
Chemmie's Avatar
Forum Legend
 
Join Date: Sep 2009
Location: Zurich
Posts: 3,882
Groaned at 29 Times in 25 Posts
Thanked 4,574 Times in 2,079 Posts
Chemmie has a reputation beyond reputeChemmie has a reputation beyond reputeChemmie has a reputation beyond reputeChemmie has a reputation beyond reputeChemmie has a reputation beyond reputeChemmie has a reputation beyond repute
Re: THE US Gun Control & Second Amendment Thread

Quote:
View Post
Look at the facts;

The article indicates that there was bad blood between the participants already, but in this instance, the facts seem pretty clear

1. 5 against one.
2. They broke into his house with the intent to kill him or do him serious bodily harm.
3. He had already locked himself in and called the police for help.

What else could he have done at that point? would it have been better if he had said; "Okay, I don't want to hurt you guys, so I'm going to lay down my best means of defense and say pretty please don't kill me?"

It seems to me that once they put themselves in the role of attacker they chose to expose themselves to the possibility that heir victim was going to be able to fight back, with possible lethal consequences.

When the door was kicked down, he had every right to protect himself, and to fight back to the maximum extent that he was capable, including shooting at them as they were running away. Remember, unlike Switzerland, the US and Canada are BIG. The response time for police can be over an hour in some rural areas. and he was still outnumbered and on his own at that point.

In my opinion, they had no reasonable expectation of mercy once they had made their intent clear.

I know that it sounds cold, but I believe that if I were in his situation barricaded, cops already called, out numbered by 500%, guys kicking in locked doors to get to me, no idea when the police would show up, I would do the same thing.
I agree---the self defense was required and was used correctly as the last resort choice.

The next question is If he should receives any punishment. Whether a man-slaughter charge or an illegal firearms charge.
Would the situation have played out differently had he been forced to reload and not made use of the illegal modification? Would it have played out differently if the gun he used was not semi automatic---a single shot/reload rifle for hunting purposes? (as many suggest the law should limit guns to). Obviously the number of rounds released is important here.

He apparently had bragged about shooting someone before and vowed revenge on one of the dead beforehand---how did this affect the outcome, or even more importantly, what precedent does this set for future cases, where the one protecting is not in a cut and dry self defense/last resort situation.
__________________
"You have reached the end of you free trial membership at BenjaminFranklinQuotes.com" -Benjamin Franklin
Reply With Quote
This user would like to thank Chemmie for this useful post:
  #1363  
Old 02.02.2013, 20:45
Desert Rat's Avatar
Forum Veteran
 
Join Date: Jun 2012
Location: Scottsdale, USA/Geneva CH
Posts: 713
Groaned at 15 Times in 9 Posts
Thanked 1,733 Times in 510 Posts
Desert Rat has a reputation beyond reputeDesert Rat has a reputation beyond reputeDesert Rat has a reputation beyond reputeDesert Rat has a reputation beyond reputeDesert Rat has a reputation beyond reputeDesert Rat has a reputation beyond repute
Re: THE US Gun Control & Second Amendment Thread

Quote:
View Post
I agree---the self defense was required and was used correctly as the last resort choice.

The next question is If he should receives any punishment. Whether a man-slaughter charge or an illegal firearms charge.
Would the situation have played out differently had he been forced to reload and not made use of the illegal modification? Would it have played out differently if the gun he used was not semi automatic---a single shot/reload rifle for hunting purposes? (as many suggest the law should limit guns to). Obviously the number of rounds released is important here.

He apparently had bragged about shooting someone before and vowed revenge on one of the dead beforehand---how did this affect the outcome, or even more importantly, what precedent does this set for future cases, where the one protecting is not in a cut and dry self defense/last resort situation.
I guess I would say that if he had an illegal magazine, then he should get whatever punishment one would typically receive for that particular transgression. The circumstances of it's discovery (i.e. after a shootout) shouldn't change it's legality or illegality. That should be a separate issue from whether he was justified in shooting these guys, which I believe he was.

As far as bragging/revenge. That certainly doesn't make him a great guy, but the fact remains that it appears he was all talk, and they were the aggressors. If this had happened in a bar parking lot, then it's a lot more questionable, but they came to his house etc. He was clearly protecting himself and in that context his actions should be justified.

When it happens next time, and the circumstances aren't as clearcut, it should go through the court system.
Reply With Quote
  #1364  
Old 02.02.2013, 22:00
Chemmie's Avatar
Forum Legend
 
Join Date: Sep 2009
Location: Zurich
Posts: 3,882
Groaned at 29 Times in 25 Posts
Thanked 4,574 Times in 2,079 Posts
Chemmie has a reputation beyond reputeChemmie has a reputation beyond reputeChemmie has a reputation beyond reputeChemmie has a reputation beyond reputeChemmie has a reputation beyond reputeChemmie has a reputation beyond repute
Re: THE US Gun Control & Second Amendment Thread

Quote:
View Post
I guess I would say that if he had an illegal magazine, then he should get whatever punishment one would typically receive for that particular transgression. The circumstances of it's discovery (i.e. after a shootout) shouldn't change it's legality or illegality. That should be a separate issue from whether he was justified in shooting these guys, which I believe he was.

As far as bragging/revenge. That certainly doesn't make him a great guy, but the fact remains that it appears he was all talk, and they were the aggressors. If this had happened in a bar parking lot, then it's a lot more questionable, but they came to his house etc. He was clearly protecting himself and in that context his actions should be justified.

When it happens next time, and the circumstances aren't as clearcut, it should go through the court system.
I totally agree with your points.

For argument sake, say that having the extended magazine was key in his protection--ie. if he didn't have the ammo and was forced to reload, his aggressors would have had the chance to injure him. Does the crime of having an illegally modified weapon also get stricken under self protection? (as manslaughter/murder is stricken under self-protection)
Reply With Quote
The following 2 users would like to thank Chemmie for this useful post:
  #1365  
Old 02.02.2013, 22:47
Desert Rat's Avatar
Forum Veteran
 
Join Date: Jun 2012
Location: Scottsdale, USA/Geneva CH
Posts: 713
Groaned at 15 Times in 9 Posts
Thanked 1,733 Times in 510 Posts
Desert Rat has a reputation beyond reputeDesert Rat has a reputation beyond reputeDesert Rat has a reputation beyond reputeDesert Rat has a reputation beyond reputeDesert Rat has a reputation beyond reputeDesert Rat has a reputation beyond repute
Re: THE US Gun Control & Second Amendment Thread

Quote:
View Post
I totally agree with your points.

For argument sake, say that having the extended magazine was key in his protection--ie. if he didn't have the ammo and was forced to reload, his aggressors would have had the chance to injure him. Does the crime of having an illegally modified weapon also get stricken under self protection? (as manslaughter/murder is stricken under self-protection)
I think I understand the debate point here, and I guess that I would say (my opinion only), the crime of having an illegally large magazine shouldn't get stricken. I think that this holds up logically. If you could use the argument of "Isn't it great that I had illegal "whatever" because otherwise I'd probably be dead." in order to escape prosecution, where would it stop?

Imagine this scenario;

"Some guys broke into my house, I know I was illegal, but isn't it lucky that I had a grenade launcher, otherwise I would have had to reload and they would have got me for sure!"

A silly example for sure, but it makes the point.

Now, having said all that, I have to wonder, exactly what is the penalty for having a large rifle magazine? I'm betting it's pretty insignificant, even in Canada.
Reply With Quote
  #1366  
Old 03.02.2013, 00:55
Caviarchips's Avatar
Forum Legend
 
Join Date: May 2010
Location: Basel Stadt
Posts: 4,004
Groaned at 110 Times in 83 Posts
Thanked 6,677 Times in 2,388 Posts
Caviarchips has a reputation beyond reputeCaviarchips has a reputation beyond reputeCaviarchips has a reputation beyond reputeCaviarchips has a reputation beyond reputeCaviarchips has a reputation beyond reputeCaviarchips has a reputation beyond repute
Re: THE US Gun Control & Second Amendment Thread

The Price of Freedom

1475 fatal shooting incidents in the US since the Sandy Hook school shooting.

That number, all the numbers, convince me more than any philosophical debate, no matter how deftly or eloquently argued
Reply With Quote
This user would like to thank Caviarchips for this useful post:
  #1367  
Old 03.02.2013, 10:53
marton's Avatar
Forum Legend
 
Join Date: May 2008
Location: Kt. Zürich
Posts: 8,564
Groaned at 246 Times in 212 Posts
Thanked 11,553 Times in 6,309 Posts
marton has a reputation beyond reputemarton has a reputation beyond reputemarton has a reputation beyond reputemarton has a reputation beyond reputemarton has a reputation beyond reputemarton has a reputation beyond repute
Re: THE US Gun Control & Second Amendment Thread

Quote:
View Post
The Price of Freedom

1475 fatal shooting incidents in the US since the Sandy Hook school shooting.

That number, all the numbers, convince me more than any philosophical debate, no matter how deftly or eloquently argued
That number includes police-involved shooting deaths.
Reply With Quote
  #1368  
Old 03.02.2013, 10:56
Caviarchips's Avatar
Forum Legend
 
Join Date: May 2010
Location: Basel Stadt
Posts: 4,004
Groaned at 110 Times in 83 Posts
Thanked 6,677 Times in 2,388 Posts
Caviarchips has a reputation beyond reputeCaviarchips has a reputation beyond reputeCaviarchips has a reputation beyond reputeCaviarchips has a reputation beyond reputeCaviarchips has a reputation beyond reputeCaviarchips has a reputation beyond repute
Re: THE US Gun Control & Second Amendment Thread

Quote:
View Post
That number includes police-involved shooting deaths.
Your point being what?

Police shooting deaths are almost exclusive caused when the bad guy is armed
Reply With Quote
  #1369  
Old 03.02.2013, 12:35
marton's Avatar
Forum Legend
 
Join Date: May 2008
Location: Kt. Zürich
Posts: 8,564
Groaned at 246 Times in 212 Posts
Thanked 11,553 Times in 6,309 Posts
marton has a reputation beyond reputemarton has a reputation beyond reputemarton has a reputation beyond reputemarton has a reputation beyond reputemarton has a reputation beyond reputemarton has a reputation beyond repute
Re: THE US Gun Control & Second Amendment Thread

Quote:
View Post
Your point being what?

Police shooting deaths are almost exclusive caused when the bad guy is armed
My point is that statistics are like a bikini - look good but hide the essentials.

Guns have been banned in UK for donkey's years but the bad guys still have them.

Many of the shooting deaths were suicides & if guns are not available then suicides will anyway always find a way.

You have to look behind the numbers; not just quote them.

Accidents will be prevented,of course.
Reply With Quote
The following 3 users would like to thank marton for this useful post:
  #1370  
Old 03.02.2013, 12:48
Caviarchips's Avatar
Forum Legend
 
Join Date: May 2010
Location: Basel Stadt
Posts: 4,004
Groaned at 110 Times in 83 Posts
Thanked 6,677 Times in 2,388 Posts
Caviarchips has a reputation beyond reputeCaviarchips has a reputation beyond reputeCaviarchips has a reputation beyond reputeCaviarchips has a reputation beyond reputeCaviarchips has a reputation beyond reputeCaviarchips has a reputation beyond repute
Re: THE US Gun Control & Second Amendment Thread

Quote:
View Post
My point is that statistics are like a bikini - look good but hide the essentials.

Guns have been banned in UK for donkey's years but the bad guys still have them.

Many of the shooting deaths were suicides & if guns are not available then suicides will anyway always find a way.

You have to look behind the numbers; not just quote them.

Accidents will be prevented,of course.
Agreed, but its not like quoting mean gdp bs bullet sales or something obtuse.

Its real lives lost. There is no real way of spinning that
Reply With Quote
  #1371  
Old 03.02.2013, 14:47
Desert Rat's Avatar
Forum Veteran
 
Join Date: Jun 2012
Location: Scottsdale, USA/Geneva CH
Posts: 713
Groaned at 15 Times in 9 Posts
Thanked 1,733 Times in 510 Posts
Desert Rat has a reputation beyond reputeDesert Rat has a reputation beyond reputeDesert Rat has a reputation beyond reputeDesert Rat has a reputation beyond reputeDesert Rat has a reputation beyond reputeDesert Rat has a reputation beyond repute
Re: THE US Gun Control & Second Amendment Thread

I certainly understand the tragedy behind the number, but I guess that I'm not really convinced that you can make any meaningful impact on violent or accidental death in the US by just getting rid of all the guns, or some of the guns, or pieces of guns.

I realize that the numbers represent real people and real tragedy, but in any complicated endeavor, we typically look at the data in order to determine how to effect maximum change. I'm not trying to muddy the water here, but consider the following.

If the number is 1475 in about a month, and we round up and extrapolate that into 24,000 per year, divided by 275,000,000 guns in the US (estimate) you get a 0.00009 chance that any given gun will shoot someone in a given year. This tells me that while gun death is horrible, it's a MUCH smaller problem from a causal standpoint than smoking, drug use, child abuse, alcohol abuse, teen prostitution, or any one of a thousand other problems that should be getting more attention, but don't because they aren't as graphic and sensational.

Example; according to CDC data, more people die each year from liver disease than gunshots, and if you add all alcohol related deaths, the estimate is approximately 100,000 per year. Why don't people push for more laws restricting alcohol use? Clearly its' killing 3-4 times as many people as firearm violence.

As far as accidental death, the example of the two year old boy that was used in the article is horrible. As a dad, it makes me want to cry, but it's also super manipulative because that's specifically the reaction that was wanted.

Who leaves a revolver on the coffee table with a toddler in the room? I'm sorry, but tragic accident or not, the parent has to bear some responsibility here.

If it had been a nail gun, or a circular saw, or even an unstable T.V that he was able to pull over onto himself, we would have all said "what a horrible accident." Maybe thought that the dad showed poor judgement, and that would have been the end of it. because it was a firearm, it's international news.
Reply With Quote
This user would like to thank Desert Rat for this useful post:
  #1372  
Old 03.02.2013, 15:17
OSueco's Avatar
Forum Veteran
 
Join Date: Jun 2008
Location: Aargau
Posts: 1,465
Groaned at 317 Times in 193 Posts
Thanked 1,261 Times in 622 Posts
OSueco has a reputation beyond reputeOSueco has a reputation beyond reputeOSueco has a reputation beyond reputeOSueco has a reputation beyond repute
Re: THE US Gun Control & Second Amendment Thread

Quote:
View Post
I certainly understand the tragedy behind the number, but I guess that I'm not really convinced that you can make any meaningful impact on violent or accidental death in the US by just getting rid of all the guns, or some of the guns, or pieces of guns.

I realize that the numbers represent real people and real tragedy, but in any complicated endeavor, we typically look at the data in order to determine how to effect maximum change. I'm not trying to muddy the water here, but consider the following.

If the number is 1475 in about a month, and we round up and extrapolate that into 24,000 per year, divided by 275,000,000 guns in the US (estimate) you get a 0.00009 chance that any given gun will shoot someone in a given year. This tells me that while gun death is horrible, it's a MUCH smaller problem from a causal standpoint than smoking, drug use, child abuse, alcohol abuse, teen prostitution, or any one of a thousand other problems that should be getting more attention, but don't because they aren't as graphic and sensational.

Example; according to CDC data, more people die each year from liver disease than gunshots, and if you add all alcohol related deaths, the estimate is approximately 100,000 per year. Why don't people push for more laws restricting alcohol use? Clearly its' killing 3-4 times as many people as firearm violence.

As far as accidental death, the example of the two year old boy that was used in the article is horrible. As a dad, it makes me want to cry, but it's also super manipulative because that's specifically the reaction that was wanted.

Who leaves a revolver on the coffee table with a toddler in the room? I'm sorry, but tragic accident or not, the parent has to bear some responsibility here.

If it had been a nail gun, or a circular saw, or even an unstable T.V that he was able to pull over onto himself, we would have all said "what a horrible accident." Maybe thought that the dad showed poor judgement, and that would have been the end of it. because it was a firearm, it's international news.
Because alcohol, nail guns, cars, smoking, fat food are all "self-inflicted deaths" or due to accidents...being shot down is neither self-inflicted nor an accident, you see the difference...?

You see, e.g. school shootings happens because some nut-cases are allowed to have guns...

So arming the whole population with a gun will not stop these kind of deeds..

I agree that making guns illegal will not solve the whole problem because there are very disturbed social factors involved and somehow guns are seen as the "problem solver".

But having gun control would help...I never understood why people are against gun control...
Reply With Quote
  #1373  
Old 03.02.2013, 15:57
Desert Rat's Avatar
Forum Veteran
 
Join Date: Jun 2012
Location: Scottsdale, USA/Geneva CH
Posts: 713
Groaned at 15 Times in 9 Posts
Thanked 1,733 Times in 510 Posts
Desert Rat has a reputation beyond reputeDesert Rat has a reputation beyond reputeDesert Rat has a reputation beyond reputeDesert Rat has a reputation beyond reputeDesert Rat has a reputation beyond reputeDesert Rat has a reputation beyond repute
Re: THE US Gun Control & Second Amendment Thread

Quote:
View Post
Because alcohol, nail guns, cars, smoking, fat food are all "self-inflicted deaths" or due to accidents...being shot down is neither self-inflicted nor an accident, you see the difference...?
I must respectfully disagree. Many people on this forum and within this thread have brought up accidental shooting statistics as a cornerstone of their argument, and the article that was posted, which I specifically referenced, devoted the majority of it's content to the accidental shooting of a child. There are a great many accidental gun deaths, and you can't use that fact to argue against guns, and at the same time argue that it doesn't really count in reference to any other type of death by other means.

Also, anyone who has lost a child to a drunk driver, or been a victim of a drunken abusive parent or spouse will not likely agree with the completely unrealistic argument that alcohol abuse is okay because "they are only hurting themselves."

I have never said that I'm against gun control. But I also understand that there are worse things in the world, and if you are trying to eliminate needless, senseless death, guns are well down on the list.
Reply With Quote
The following 3 users would like to thank Desert Rat for this useful post:
  #1374  
Old 03.02.2013, 22:17
Chemmie's Avatar
Forum Legend
 
Join Date: Sep 2009
Location: Zurich
Posts: 3,882
Groaned at 29 Times in 25 Posts
Thanked 4,574 Times in 2,079 Posts
Chemmie has a reputation beyond reputeChemmie has a reputation beyond reputeChemmie has a reputation beyond reputeChemmie has a reputation beyond reputeChemmie has a reputation beyond reputeChemmie has a reputation beyond repute
Re: THE US Gun Control & Second Amendment Thread

My problem with gun control--is that too many people are screaming for gun control or banning guns so they can sleep well at night thinking they have done the right thing and have a superior opinion and morals.
It is fairly naive to think that stronger gun control laws will make a big impact on lives saved.

Even if stringent gun controls reduce that 1475 death number down, it's will always be a shocking number. It's not like gun related deaths are only horrific once they break the 1000 number--it is just a trivial number with great shock value.

My worry is if millions of dollars is blindly spent on knee-jerk gun control laws that make little difference.

That being said, I don't have much of a better solution other than social and ideological reform (which would take generations to see benefit), so a middle ground should be found intelligently looking at actions and results.
__________________
"You have reached the end of you free trial membership at BenjaminFranklinQuotes.com" -Benjamin Franklin
Reply With Quote
The following 4 users would like to thank Chemmie for this useful post:
  #1375  
Old 04.02.2013, 00:19
Ace1's Avatar
A singular modality
 
Join Date: Sep 2011
Location: Morgins
Posts: 6,500
Groaned at 191 Times in 140 Posts
Thanked 10,163 Times in 4,512 Posts
Ace1 has a reputation beyond reputeAce1 has a reputation beyond reputeAce1 has a reputation beyond reputeAce1 has a reputation beyond reputeAce1 has a reputation beyond reputeAce1 has a reputation beyond repute
Re: THE US Gun Control & Second Amendment Thread

Quote:
View Post
But having gun control would help...I never understood why people are against gun control...
Nor I. I guess it's one of those American things I'll never understand.

I mean, when I was a child I played with guns, including air rifles. A childhood friend still has a pellet in his leg from when we found out that they were really pretty dangerous things to be used as toys[1], and there ended my fascination with them. Seems that some people grow up in different ways to others.

[1] To be fair, we were out shooting crows, he only had a little Gatt gun, which could be fired into bare flesh from point blank without breaking the skin, but was taking great pleasure in shooting my dog with it. I said if he did it again I'd shoot him, he did, I did. Surprising that the gun that could kill a crow on the wing at >100yds would penetrate into the bone from 10 ft? No, not really, as I realised later
Reply With Quote
The following 2 users would like to thank Ace1 for this useful post:
  #1376  
Old 04.02.2013, 12:30
California Dreamer's Avatar
Forum Veteran
 
Join Date: Mar 2007
Location: Zurich
Posts: 978
Groaned at 58 Times in 32 Posts
Thanked 951 Times in 474 Posts
California Dreamer has an excellent reputationCalifornia Dreamer has an excellent reputationCalifornia Dreamer has an excellent reputationCalifornia Dreamer has an excellent reputation
Re: THE US Gun Control & Second Amendment Thread

one of the best arguments out there.



And seriously, I am thinking of signing that petition to deport this duchebag. I use to have some level of respect for CNN, it clear however, that they have sunken to the depths of Fox News.

Reply With Quote
The following 2 users would like to thank California Dreamer for this useful post:
  #1377  
Old 04.02.2013, 18:54
Ace1's Avatar
A singular modality
 
Join Date: Sep 2011
Location: Morgins
Posts: 6,500
Groaned at 191 Times in 140 Posts
Thanked 10,163 Times in 4,512 Posts
Ace1 has a reputation beyond reputeAce1 has a reputation beyond reputeAce1 has a reputation beyond reputeAce1 has a reputation beyond reputeAce1 has a reputation beyond reputeAce1 has a reputation beyond repute
Re: THE US Gun Control & Second Amendment Thread

Quote:
View Post

And seriously, I am thinking of signing that petition to deport this duchebag. I use to have some level of respect for CNN, it clear however, that they have sunken to the depths of Fox News.
Doesn't that just trample all over one of the other amendments, the absolute right to free speech? Piers Morgan may be a self-promoting tabloid hack, but at least he's apparently not going to be shut up by the NRA and their cronies, so I now have to accord him _some_ respect.
Reply With Quote
The following 2 users would like to thank Ace1 for this useful post:
  #1378  
Old 04.02.2013, 19:43
Jobsrobertsharpii's Avatar
Forum Veteran
 
Join Date: Aug 2011
Location: Z-U-R-I-C-H
Posts: 2,338
Groaned at 176 Times in 126 Posts
Thanked 3,384 Times in 1,536 Posts
Jobsrobertsharpii has a reputation beyond reputeJobsrobertsharpii has a reputation beyond reputeJobsrobertsharpii has a reputation beyond reputeJobsrobertsharpii has a reputation beyond reputeJobsrobertsharpii has a reputation beyond reputeJobsrobertsharpii has a reputation beyond repute
Re: THE US Gun Control & Second Amendment Thread

Reply With Quote
The following 5 users would like to thank Jobsrobertsharpii for this useful post:
  #1379  
Old 04.02.2013, 20:52
HAT's Avatar
HAT HAT is offline
Forum Veteran
 
Join Date: Sep 2006
Location: Zurich near Zug
Posts: 1,251
Groaned at 90 Times in 56 Posts
Thanked 703 Times in 373 Posts
HAT is considered knowledgeableHAT is considered knowledgeableHAT is considered knowledgeable
Re: THE US Gun Control & Second Amendment Thread

I had a small revelation this morning as I watched drivers on the autobahn.

Cars can be deadly but not as deadly as firearms in the wrong hands.

If it takes a few months and a certain high number of driving hours training, and then a stringent test to pass a driver's licence test, WHY is there NO equivalent firearms training and certification tests for owning and shooting a firearm?
This is the same in US and CH.

There is background checks but there is no mandatory "flight hours" to clock in order to own and fire a weapon.

Am I the only Einstein here?
__________________
祸从口出 病从口入 大家自制 小心小人.
Be kind, you are not always right, are you?
Reply With Quote
The following 2 users would like to thank HAT for this useful post:
  #1380  
Old 04.02.2013, 21:23
Rodica's children's Avatar
Member
 
Join Date: Feb 2011
Location: Lausanne
Posts: 118
Groaned at 16 Times in 11 Posts
Thanked 78 Times in 60 Posts
Rodica's children has earned some respectRodica's children has earned some respect
Re: THE US Gun Control & Second Amendment Thread

Quote:
View Post
I had a small revelation this morning as I watched drivers on the autobahn.

Cars can be deadly but not as deadly as firearms in the wrong hands.

If it takes a few months and a certain high number of driving hours training, and then a stringent test to pass a driver's licence test, WHY is there NO equivalent firearms training and certification tests for owning and shooting a firearm?
This is the same in US and CH.

There is background checks but there is no mandatory "flight hours" to clock in order to own and fire a weapon.

Am I the only Einstein here?
I know that you have to show competency in Belgium.
Reply With Quote
Reply

Tags
brown, darren wilson, ferguson, gun control, guns, kids, police, shooting range, usa




Currently Active Users Viewing This Thread: 1 (0 members and 1 guests)
 
Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off


Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
The 2nd Amendment as explained by a Brit Sean Connery Other/general 126 07.12.2012 15:41
Gun import from the US DantesDame Other/general 4 04.12.2012 18:02
US Gun Control Laws Caviarchips International affairs/politics 179 20.08.2012 23:48
The US taking control of the Interwebz? Nelly_Da_Hefferlump International affairs/politics 4 14.10.2010 01:30
Washington Post story about gun control in Switzerland Bartholemew Swiss politics/news 39 23.05.2007 14:24


All times are GMT +2. The time now is 23:25.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.4
Copyright ©2000 - 2018, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
LinkBacks Enabled by vBSEO 3.1.0