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  #1501  
Old 27.08.2014, 09:06
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Re: 9yo girl accidentally shoots and kills Arizona gun

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I just cannot understand why any parent would want/allow their 9 year old daughter to fire any gun, let alone an Uzi...
Gun, I can understand, as a sporting activity. Just. But an Uzi?

At the same time alcohol is banned for the under 21s. Though given the easy access to guns, maybe that's a good idea.
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Old 27.08.2014, 09:16
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Re: 9yo girl accidentally shoots and kills Arizona gun

I really don't get it for kids that young, though. I have friends who I went to high school with that will post their kids' hunting treasures.... I just didn't grow up in that lifestyle.
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Old 27.08.2014, 10:01
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Re: THE US Gun Control & Second Amendment Thread

I can't stand the NRA mantra "Guns don't kill people, people kill people". Then why not control the numbers and types of PEOPLE who can have sodding access to guns? Yet if you suggest that, they all go frigging nuts about "the constitution". Twats.
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Old 27.08.2014, 10:26
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Re: THE US Gun Control & Second Amendment Thread

I'm not sure what all the moral panic is about. The girl was at a firing range, being supervised by an instructor. The instructor made a mistake and consequently died. It's very unfortunate for everybody involved, but not really cause for any great alarm.


Meanwhile, people are getting shot in Johannesburg, Ciudad Juarez and Caracas all the time and we barely hear a murmur about it.


I wonder why?
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Old 27.08.2014, 10:28
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Re: THE US Gun Control & Second Amendment Thread

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Old 27.08.2014, 10:44
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Re: 9yo girl accidentally shoots and kills Arizona gun

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I really don't get it for kids that young, though. I have friends who I went to high school with that will post their kids' hunting treasures.... I just didn't grow up in that lifestyle.


Educating people while young to respect and handle guns safely
is the proper Thing to do. These are not the people that you have
to be scared of.


The People to be scared of are drug using/alcohol abusing parents that don't teach children about the seriousness and responsibility of having a weapon.


I am for changing the Second Amendment for gun control, but educating
Young People is an asset not a liability in this case.
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Old 27.08.2014, 10:54
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Re: THE US Gun Control & Second Amendment Thread

Proper education is key. I still agree with the sentiment: Guns don't kill people......

In this case, the Instructor (RIP) put himself and everyone around him in risk of death by giving a SMG to a 9 year old. Even for the experienced user, that gun has little control on the kickback.

Whereas you have Knabenschiessen, where children are also given assualt rifles they can handle---we see little issues there.
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Old 27.08.2014, 11:03
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Re: 9yo girl accidentally shoots and kills Arizona gun

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I really don't get it for kids that young, though. I have friends who I went to high school with that will post their kids' hunting treasures.... I just didn't grow up in that lifestyle.
One argument I suppose is that for kids growing up in that lifestyle and in a country where guns are readily available then I guess the parents want their offspring to be able to safely handle and have respect for the weapon from as early an age as is possible.

The biggest mistake that I can see here is that the girl was firing it in fully automatic mode. The UZI (together with the the MAC10) aren't known as spray and prays for nothing. Even somebody who's experienced in handling the weapon will tell you that the first two or three bullets will probably hit the target, but it's anybody's guess as to where the rest will go.
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Old 27.08.2014, 11:07
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Re: THE US Gun Control & Second Amendment Thread

the gun that girl was firing serves absolutely no purpose for "gun education" except in circumstances where a person is being trained to kill in connection with military service. a kid can learn everything they need to learn about firearms - the most important of which is respect - with a simple, single-shot 22 caliber rifle.
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Old 27.08.2014, 11:11
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Re: 9yo girl accidentally shoots and kills Arizona gun

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Educating people while young to respect and handle guns safely
is the proper Thing to do. These are not the people that you have
to be scared of.


The People to be scared of are drug using/alcohol abusing parents that don't teach children about the seriousness and responsibility of having a weapon.


I am for changing the Second Amendment for gun control, but educating
Young People is an asset not a liability in this case.
You think teaching a 9 year old to shoot an Uzi is an asset? And how many of the students who've opened fire at school have been trained by parents, etc, in the use of guns. Most I suspect. Given that's there's a shooting involving a school once a week on average in the States something more than sweeping it under the carpet with remarks like "they're mentally unstable" needs to be done.

http://everytown.org/article/schoolshootings/

As Everytown says at the end of their report: This list includes incidents meeting the above criteria that were brought to our attention after our School Shootings Analysis was issued on February 10, 2014. Incidents were identified through media reports, so this is likely an undercount of the true total.
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Old 27.08.2014, 11:13
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Re: THE US Gun Control & Second Amendment Thread

From what I've read, the family were on vacation and visited the range as part of that vacation. So all this nonsense about "education" is a load of bollocks; they went there for shits and giggles and the instructor paid with his life.

From the Torygraph:

"A popular tourist spot as the last place travellers can get food and fuel on their way to or from Las Vegas and the Grand Canyon, the Last Stop's website invites visitors to “Shoot a machine gun at Arizona’s last stop”.
According to the range’s website, visitors can take part in a “Burgers and Bullets” day, including lunch and a choice of more than 20 automatic weapons to shoot with. "
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Old 27.08.2014, 11:14
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Re: 9yo girl accidentally shoots and kills Arizona gun

It's a weak kid firing a fully-automatic weapon which will recoil. I would say, from my experience, that the chap was stood on the wrong side of the girl. He needs to be close to the gun and to be able to limit it's movement.

Nothing more than a tragic accident.

By the way, my experience is from having no training at all - like this kid - and being VERY closely monitored with the guy's hand being close to the gun at all times to control recoil and to ensure I don't go mental.

And I've fired things that would easily make holes for Uzi rounds to go through....
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Old 27.08.2014, 11:29
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Re: THE US Gun Control & Second Amendment Thread

not so sure its the parents fault, the range / instructor should have had more sense and said sorry, kids to young and weak to handle a machine gun. it should have been safe, a bit of fun (rightly or wrongly) would you blame the parents if she had been in a go-kart, lost control, and killed someone (for instance)
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Old 27.08.2014, 11:32
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Re: THE US Gun Control & Second Amendment Thread

I'm historically very pro-gun, but this was beyond stupid on the instructor's behalf and the parent's behalf. If you really want to teach a child proper gun control - start with a BB gun and treat it as if it were a high-caliber rifle. If and when they show due care and get older (As in 12/13) maybe move up to something like a .22 with careful supervision. Larger calibers come later depending on age, maturity and strength. I would absolutely hold off on anything automatic until late teens (if ever) as the recoil from those increases very quickly and sh*t can go wrong REALLY fast.

All this did was throw fuel on the anti-gun fire.. Tragic that someone had to lose their life.
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Old 27.08.2014, 11:35
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Re: THE US Gun Control & Second Amendment Thread

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not so sure its the parents fault, the range / instructor should have had more sense and said sorry, kids to young and weak to handle a machine gun. it should have been safe, a bit of fun (rightly or wrongly) would you blame the parents if she had been in a go-kart, lost control, and killed someone (for instance)
I agree. The parents trusted the experience of the instructor and why wouldn't they? The instructor was at fault.
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Old 27.08.2014, 11:56
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Re: THE US Gun Control & Second Amendment Thread

Such a sad story with two lives ruined. The instructor has lost his life, through his negligence (the consensus seems to be that such a heavy-duty gun should not have been handed over to a child, without the proper restraints, at least), and a little girl is scarred for life, knowing that she was "responsible" for the loss of a life.

Time for the US to really have a sensible debate on guns.
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Old 27.08.2014, 12:01
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Re: THE US Gun Control & Second Amendment Thread

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I'm not sure what all the moral panic is about. The girl was at a firing range, being supervised by an instructor. The instructor made a mistake and consequently died. It's very unfortunate for everybody involved, but not really cause for any great alarm.


Meanwhile, people are getting shot in Johannesburg, Ciudad Juarez and Caracas all the time and we barely hear a murmur about it.


I wonder why?
hasn't been uploaded on youtube?
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Old 27.08.2014, 12:05
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Re: THE US Gun Control & Second Amendment Thread

so when's the Hello Kitty range of Uzi's coming out?

ETA

That was a joke, but it seems the jokes on me, there are hello kitty guns

https://www.google.com/search?q=hell...w=1600&bih=728
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Old 27.08.2014, 12:06
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Re: THE US Gun Control & Second Amendment Thread

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Time for the US to really have a sensible debate on guns.
They have lobbists to prevent that
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Old 27.08.2014, 12:10
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Re: THE US Gun Control & Second Amendment Thread

Its also hard to have a sensible debate when the no lobby are just as mental as the yes lobby
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