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  #1521  
Old 27.08.2014, 12:22
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Re: THE US Gun Control & Second Amendment Thread

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Its also hard to have a sensible debate when the no lobby are just as mental as the yes lobby
I agree that both sides are adamant in accepting the other's views. But how many bystanders and innocent people need to die, before the two factions accept a compromise!
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  #1522  
Old 27.08.2014, 12:42
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Re: THE US Gun Control & Second Amendment Thread

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......
Time for the US to really have a sensible debate on guns.

A sensible debate on serious issues is always a good idea.

That being said, what do we think could come out of a sensible debate regarding this topic?

Banning Uzi type machine guns? Limiting age-use on fire arms? Better certification and regulations on trainers?

These points, for example, could maybe have prevented this specific tradegy, however would play almost no role in the many other instances of gun violence.

The end question is whether to instil a novel full of new federal regulations on a populations who prides their freedom (including freedom to make dumb mistakes and take the consequences).

Unfortunately this is s really a single outlier case. The gun debate is still a pandora's box of opinions, none of which this single event plays a large role in, IMO.
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  #1523  
Old 27.08.2014, 12:44
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Re: THE US Gun Control & Second Amendment Thread

agreed, you can't legislate against stupid
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  #1524  
Old 27.08.2014, 12:56
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Re: THE US Gun Control & Second Amendment Thread

I think that this debate needs to have a baseline to understand the concept of firearms:

1) Most of the world's concept: A device that fires projectiles that is inherently an offensive weapon. It spits out pieces of metal that will kill.

2) Too many American's viewpoint: Glamor decoration, like a piece of jewelry. Defends some rights that I think George Washington died for on the cross right next to Charlton Heston.
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  #1525  
Old 27.08.2014, 13:00
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Re: THE US Gun Control & Second Amendment Thread

Charlton Heston's dead??????

you can't just spring that on people
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  #1526  
Old 27.08.2014, 13:07
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Re: THE US Gun Control & Second Amendment Thread

One less in the "stupid gene" pool,

https://uk.news.yahoo.com/girl-accidentally-kills-gun-instructor-uzi-051336902.html?vp=1#k63J2HW

why are parents teaching a 9 year old to shoot with a Uzi ???
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  #1527  
Old 27.08.2014, 13:10
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Re: 9yo girl accidentally shoots and kills Arizona gun

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Educating people while young to respect and handle guns safely
is the proper Thing to do. These are not the people that you have
to be scared of.

You mean like the instructor who just got shot?

Or perhaps the instructors don't have a clue about how to respect and handle guns safely?
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  #1528  
Old 27.08.2014, 13:16
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Re: THE US Gun Control & Second Amendment Thread

I don't buy it, but I can see the argument for teaching older children to safely use a gun. But a 9 year old being taught to use a sub-machine gun- where on earth can the justification be.

Another boy recently shot himself with one, and the parents had been told several times that he was unable to cope with the recoil

The teenager who worked at a gun show where 8-year-old Christopher Bizilj accidentally killed himself while shooting an Uzi testified today he twice suggested the boy's father pick a less powerful weapon for the boy to shoot. But Christopher's father, Dr. Charles Bizilj, insisted that his son be allowed to fire the automatic weapon, Michael Spano told the court. Spano was 15 at the time of the 2008 Massachusetts gun expo and was put in charge of allowing people to fire the 9 mm Micro Uzi, a submachine gun that fires 20 rounds a second.
Former Pelham, Mass., police chief Edward Fleury is on trial for the boy's death because he organized the gun expo. He is charged with involuntary manslaughter. He has pleaded not guilty.
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  #1529  
Old 27.08.2014, 13:16
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Re: 9yo girl accidentally shoots and kills Arizona gun

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You mean like the instructor who just got shot?

Or perhaps the instructors don't have a clue about how to respect and handle guns safely?

as he was standing in front of the girl, I'd say he didn't have much of a clue about gun safety
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  #1530  
Old 27.08.2014, 13:19
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Re: THE US Gun Control & Second Amendment Thread

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I don't buy it, but I can see the argument for teaching older children to safely use a gun. But a 9 year old being taught to use a sub-machine gun- where on earth can the justification be.

Another buy recently shot himself with one, and the parents had been told several times that he was unable to cope with the recoil

As I understand it she wasn't being taught to shoot, it was just for laughs, a thrill, its more a come and shoot a machine gun here type place rather then a serious range.
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  #1531  
Old 27.08.2014, 13:24
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Re: THE US Gun Control & Second Amendment Thread

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As I understand it she wasn't being taught to shoot, it was just for laughs, a thrill, its more a come and shoot a machine gun here type place rather then a serious range.
And let's face it - that's what it's really all about, isn't it? Shooting guns is for laughs.
Let's face it, they're not practicing for an imminent Russian invasion are they?*

*Yes, I do appreciate that some think they are.
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  #1532  
Old 27.08.2014, 13:26
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Re: THE US Gun Control & Second Amendment Thread

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And let's face it - that's what it's really all about, isn't it? Shooting guns is for laughs.
Let's face it, they're not practicing for an imminent Russian invasion are they?*

*Yes, I do appreciate that some think they are.

given the accuracy of Uzi's in full auto mode, they aint much use for anything other then a laugh
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  #1533  
Old 27.08.2014, 13:26
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Re: 9yo girl accidentally shoots and kills Arizona gun

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as he was standing in front of the girl, I'd say he didn't have much of a clue about gun safety
from a Time (the magazine) article on the story:

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He said Vacca, a longtime military veteran, had been working at the range for roughly two years
I would think a military veteran would have more than a clue about gun safety.

To say that the parents aren't culpable in this to me is crazy - they bear just as much responsibility to me as the range, perhaps more. We are, after all, the guardians of our children and need to determine what is appropriate for them to do...
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  #1534  
Old 27.08.2014, 13:30
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Re: THE US Gun Control & Second Amendment Thread

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One less in the "stupid gene" pool,

https://uk.news.yahoo.com/girl-accidentally-kills-gun-instructor-uzi-051336902.html?vp=1#k63J2HW

why are parents teaching a 9 year old to shoot with a Uzi ???
so that accidents like the above don't happen?
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  #1535  
Old 27.08.2014, 13:32
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Re: 9yo girl accidentally shoots and kills Arizona gun

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from a Time (the magazine) article on the story:



I would think a military veteran would have more than a clue about gun safety.

To say that the parents aren't culpable in this to me is crazy - they bear just as much responsibility to me as the range, perhaps more. We are, after all, the guardians of our children and need to determine what is appropriate for them to do...

very first 'rule' that's drummed into you to at any half decent range is NEVER stand infront of the shooter, he was trained to shoot guns, not it seems trained to train.

as a parent you have to trust the professional you have hired, can my kid fire that gun? someone said sure, the rest is history.

no point in getting into the rights and wrongs of letting your 9 year old fire an automatic weapon, the point is its legal, they hired someone who was supposed to know what they where doing, so it should have been perfectly safe for all involved, it seems he didn't really know what he was doing.
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  #1536  
Old 27.08.2014, 13:56
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Re: 9yo girl accidentally shoots and kills Arizona gun

Well, I wouldn't let my 9 year old shoot or handle an automatic weapon. But then again, I wouldn't do it myself so I guess it is a moot point.

I heard he was standing to the (left) side of the girl. I have not watched the video, however...
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  #1537  
Old 27.08.2014, 14:14
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Re: 9yo girl accidentally shoots and kills Arizona gun

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Well, I wouldn't let my 9 year old shoot or handle an automatic weapon. But then again, I wouldn't do it myself so I guess it is a moot point.

I heard he was standing to the (left) side of the girl. I have not watched the video, however...
Correct, he is standing to the left and just about level, or slightly in front of her.
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  #1538  
Old 27.08.2014, 14:42
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Re: THE US Gun Control & Second Amendment Thread

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Another boy recently shot himself with one
2008 is not 'recently'.

Tom
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  #1539  
Old 27.08.2014, 15:29
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Re: THE US Gun Control & Second Amendment Thread

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...Why does any child need to know how to use a gun?
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Educating people while young to respect and handle guns safely is the proper Thing to do. These are not the people that you have to be scared of.

The People to be scared of are drug using/alcohol abusing parents that don't teach children about the seriousness and responsibility of having a weapon...
I'm agree, and...

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.. a kid can learn everything they need to learn about firearms - the most important of which is respect - with a simple, single-shot 22 caliber rifle.
This is a totally valid point. One doesn't need to fire an automatic weapon to learn about and respect firearms.

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From what I've read, the family were on vacation and visited the range as part of that vacation...According to the range’s website, visitors can take part in a “Burgers and Bullets” day, including lunch and a choice of more than 20 automatic weapons to shoot with. "
Wow. Just wow.

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...
Let's face it, they're not practicing for an imminent Russian invasion are they?*

*Yes, I do appreciate that some think they are.
Even more think they are preparing to make a stand against their own government. They are less concerned about the Russians than they are about the police.

I think I mentioned a while back in this thread that I learned to shoot a gun from a very young age. I was working on a shooting range starting when I was about 7 years old. I knew how to handle and fire guns, helped load shotgun shells, etc. Most of my peers did too, and back in those days we had guys that did gun cleaning for their "how to" speeches at school. We all knew the risks and it while it was for sport, it was not about giggles.

In this most recent case, the parents and the instructor are all to blame. Really sad, and preventable incident.
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  #1540  
Old 27.08.2014, 15:58
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Re: THE US Gun Control & Second Amendment Thread

Imagine the sensationalism in America if this had occured in the Middle East. "Middle East parents teaching their kids to fire submachine guns"

However, being it happened in America, it takes on a whole new spin. Suddenly, it's the instructor's fault and guns are a symbol of freedom.

I don't get it.
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