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  #1621  
Old 12.09.2014, 12:02
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Re: THE US Gun Control & Second Amendment Thread

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It's only a deterrent because people know that the primary designed function of a gun is to kill.

I would hope so, because it would be useless otherwise. And one should make sure it works properly, and one knows how to control it, by target practising.

By the way, I don't think it is useful here in Switzerland yet. But there plenty of other realities in other parts of the world where it would be good to have one.

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  #1622  
Old 12.09.2014, 12:29
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Re: THE US Gun Control & Second Amendment Thread

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By the way, I don't think it is useful here in Switzerland yet. But there plenty of other realities in other parts of the world where it would be good to have one.
Syria, Afghanistan, Iraq, Columbia, parts of central Africa, The U.S....

Do you see a pattern emerging here?
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  #1623  
Old 12.09.2014, 12:58
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Re: THE US Gun Control & Second Amendment Thread

Meanwhile back home in Zürich; next week is Knabenschiessen.
Shooting competition for children aged 13 - 17; and they get a day off school to attend.
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  #1624  
Old 12.09.2014, 13:02
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Re: What the hell is going on with guns in the US?

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It's not people that kill people, it's guns that kill people.

I'm waiting for the first American on here to say that she should have had her own gun so she could have defended herself.
Ever heard of the "Wild West"? In reality it was not so wild. Why? Because the bad guys were reluctant to screw people as anyone could be packing a gun. So in areas of America where crime rates are high I would advice people to buy a gun and get training at a gun club.

How long does it take Police to respond in areas of America with high crime rates? I dont know but I would say long enough that by the time they arrive whatever happened is over.

Armies should be kept within the borders and likewise guns should be kept inside the house. Defence only. Therefore when outside the home stick to safe routes and places and perhaps consider using pepper spray and keep the guns at home.

Perhaps I am biased as I went to a military school but it seems logical to me.
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Old 12.09.2014, 13:17
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Re: THE US Gun Control & Second Amendment Thread

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Syria, Afghanistan, Iraq, Columbia, parts of central Africa, The U.S....

Do you see a pattern emerging here?
I do wonder how many terrorists there would be if the US military never was. Seems to me the that certain groups of Americans just want to stir up trouble to justify huge military spending and provide an excuse to pilage resources.

To any Americans... Peoples are not evil people are. I have some very fond memories of holidays in the US when I was a kid. But I am very sorry to say that the US is almost the last place that I would visit the way things stand now. Except maybe New York (those galleries wow).
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  #1626  
Old 12.09.2014, 13:30
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Re: THE US Gun Control & Second Amendment Thread

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I would hope so, because it would be useless otherwise. And one should make sure it works properly, and one knows how to control it, by target practising.
Great idea, can't wait till humanity further applies this logic to nuclear weapons. For deterrence purposes, of course.

Here's a nice video from a few weeks ago demonstrating that a gun does it's intended job, while target practicing...(notice the intended target is a human silhouette as well)

excited last words at the Last Stop shooting range...."Alright! FULL AUTO!"


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By the way, I don't think it is useful here in Switzerland yet. But there plenty of other realities in other parts of the world where it would be good to have one.

Of course, John Lennon was singing about sex and/or shooting heroin, not about killing people.

Last edited by pilatus1; 12.09.2014 at 14:06.
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  #1627  
Old 12.09.2014, 13:50
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Re: THE US Gun Control & Second Amendment Thread

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So everybody knows that the Police have guns. That deters violence.
Yes, of course it does. That's why we never hear about police officers being injured or killed on duty.

Oh, hang on a mo...
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  #1628  
Old 12.09.2014, 14:35
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Re: THE US Gun Control & Second Amendment Thread

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Meanwhile back home in Zürich; next week is Knabenschiessen.
Shooting competition for children aged 13 - 17; and they get a day off school to attend.
Better for the kids than in the U.S. where the shooting's done in the school.
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  #1629  
Old 12.09.2014, 14:39
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Re: THE US Gun Control & Second Amendment Thread

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You lot don't seem to agree.

Texaner thinks they are used for target practice as a sport but you're saying they're used as a deterrent...
That just goes to show that there's more than one motive for owning a gun. In the vast majority of US cases, the primary motive is not to harm or kill others, although at least one motive for many folks is to have that option as an alternative to becoming a crime victim. Other folks also gain that option through ownership whether they intend to ever exercise it or not, but their main motive is participation in one or more sport shooting activities, which — again — is by far the focus of most firearm usage both in the US and here in Switzerland.
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  #1630  
Old 12.09.2014, 14:40
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Re: THE US Gun Control & Second Amendment Thread

I think it takes an incredible amount of faith in human nature, or willful ignorance, to claim that guns are no longer necessary in the world. Or perhaps you would just want a single authority to enforce all law and order, and we'll just graze like sheep or something. Unfortunately, I have seen the necessity of arms in some situations.
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  #1631  
Old 12.09.2014, 15:02
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Re: THE US Gun Control & Second Amendment Thread

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I think it takes an incredible amount of faith in human nature, or willful ignorance, to claim that guns are no longer necessary in the world.
Yes, it would. Has anyone here made that claim?
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  #1632  
Old 12.09.2014, 15:13
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Re: THE US Gun Control & Second Amendment Thread

In the eighth grade I was at a birthday party where the kid pulled out his older brother's handgun, just playing around.Showing off. Put it against his head. Pulled the trigger. RIP.

His brother had taken out the clip but not emptied the chamber...Did his brother need to have that gun? Were the Cubans invading or something? No. These types of accidents happen everyday because americans can't get over the wild west mentality, the spirit of rugged individualism and the culture of violence they create.

Fortunately, I haven't ever been in a war zone. I have, however, had guns pulled on me several times in the US - once for honking the car horn to avoid a car accident on a busy city street in Philadelphia - we were chased by the 2 crackheads who pulled the gun and yelled something like 'what's up now, bitch!' as we all dove to the car floor. Another time was in the middle of the arctic tundra in Alaska, a loony bin gun freak pulled his handgun on us because he said we (three guys on bicycles - me, my father, and my brother) were camping too close to his camper van. (on public land)

A few days later we met an admittedly mentally deranged and paranoid veteran who had been recently released from the army mental hospital. He had packed up everything he could into a trailer and driven to Alaska to buy some useless land in the middle of nowhere. As there was no access to the land by road through the thick forest, he was spending his days on the side of the highway, drinking beer and firing off shots from his fully automatic customized in every way completely illegal AK47.

The gun situation in the US is a sickness - can it reasonably be argued that they make the US a safer place?
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  #1633  
Old 12.09.2014, 15:17
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Re: THE US Gun Control & Second Amendment Thread

I can agree there are people who should not have them.
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  #1634  
Old 12.09.2014, 15:45
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Re: THE US Gun Control & Second Amendment Thread

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The gun situation in the US is a sickness - can it reasonably be argued that they make the US a safer place?
No, I think it can only be selfishly argued that they could make the US a safer place.
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  #1635  
Old 12.09.2014, 15:46
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Re: THE US Gun Control & Second Amendment Thread

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I can agree there are people who should not have them.
And what exactly is the process of "weeding them out" -- or knowing, in advance, that someone could never become one of those that shouldn't have them?
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  #1636  
Old 12.09.2014, 15:52
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Re: THE US Gun Control & Second Amendment Thread

the cruel irony that far too many gun rights advocates fail to appreciate is that, if you find it necessary to carry a firearm to feel safe and secure in the presence of others, you are no longer "free". the current American concept of gun ownership is completely inapposite to the concepts of "freedom" and "liberty" upon which the country was purportedly founded.
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  #1637  
Old 12.09.2014, 15:57
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Re: THE US Gun Control & Second Amendment Thread

Yet another accident with a gun.

http://www.bbc.com/news/world-us-canada-29168777

The fact that a teacher has to carry a gun at school is a very sad statement of the US in general these days.
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  #1638  
Old 12.09.2014, 16:03
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Re: THE US Gun Control & Second Amendment Thread

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the cruel irony that far too many gun rights advocates fail to appreciate is that, if you find it necessary to carry a firearm to feel safe and secure in the presence of others, you are no longer "free". the current American concept of gun ownership is completely inapposite to the concepts of "freedom" and "liberty" upon which the country was purportedly founded.
How would you judge that? From the comforts of your home in Switzerland, or from an inner city neighborhood infested by gangs and drugs?

As for the Bill of Rights, it is quite clearly there. But I think its arguable that the intent there was for the purpose of countering government tyranny, not for mass proliferation of firearms for killing each other.
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  #1639  
Old 12.09.2014, 16:12
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Re: THE US Gun Control & Second Amendment Thread

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How would you judge that? From the comforts of your home in Switzerland, or from an inner city neighborhood infested by gangs and drugs?

As for the Bill of Rights, it is quite clearly there. But I think its arguable that the intent there was for the purpose of countering government tyranny, not for mass proliferation of firearms for killing each other.
somebody who lives in an inner city neighborhood infested by gangs and drugs is not "free" in any sense of the word, and no firearm is going to change that fact. but that is a much different and, unfortunately, much deeper and heavier problem.

as for the Bill of Rights, I strongly disagree. the Second Amendment in no way provides for a right to bear arms independent of service in a militia, the concept of an "individual" rather than "collective" right to bear arms is a fiction of Supreme Court judicial legislation. ironically, btw, judicial legislation for which Justice Scalia is principally responsible despite his several decades of whining about "originalism", a fact that Scalia will burn in judicial hell for when his time is up.

and one last irony, which is perhaps the cruelest to me - in the US, the strongest advocates for gun rights are almost always the strongest supporters of the US military. considering that they feel it necessary to own firearms in order to protect themselves from their own government, this strikes me as horribly perverted logic.

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  #1640  
Old 12.09.2014, 16:12
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Re: THE US Gun Control & Second Amendment Thread

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Yes, it would. Has anyone here made that claim?
Yes, the underlying sentiment of the anti-gun faction is that the police can protect us better than we can protect ourselves, and that we therefore shouldn't have private guns for any purpose.
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