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  #1821  
Old 09.05.2015, 19:12
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Re: THE US Gun Control & Second Amendment Thread

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Yes. Frequently.
Care to provide link?
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  #1822  
Old 09.05.2015, 19:28
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Re: THE US Gun Control & Second Amendment Thread

Well, let's see. New York Times has done 5 between April 10th and 4th May this year alone and you can search a staggering 10,049 articles on gun control - both for an against I presume as I'm not wading through that many.

http://topics.nytimes.com/top/refere...rol/index.html

http://www.latimes.com/la-oe-wilson20apr20-story.html

http://www.theatlantic.com/magazine/...ontrol/309161/
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  #1823  
Old 09.05.2015, 20:14
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Well, let's see. New York Times has done 5 between April 10th and 4th May this year alone and you can search a staggering 10,049 articles on gun control - both for an against I presume as I'm not wading through that many.

http://topics.nytimes.com/top/refere...rol/index.html

http://www.latimes.com/la-oe-wilson20apr20-story.html

http://www.theatlantic.com/magazine/...ontrol/309161/
Not seeing the pro-gun articles????

You all do realize that gun crime/murder is actually down in the US and gun ownership is up. There is also a reduce number of "mass" shootings according to the FBI's own data. Looking at states that are known for free cancelled carry laws crime is actually lower.

What has happened every time a government bans all weapons..... mass genocide.

What would you do if an armed intruder came into your house while you were there. They could be armed with an axe or knife. What you you do to defend yourself or your family when the police are 15 min away (2 hours away in LA).

Last edited by 3Wishes; 08.06.2015 at 18:39. Reason: merging consecutive replies
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  #1824  
Old 09.05.2015, 20:29
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Re: THE US Gun Control & Second Amendment Thread

NY is not the place to find them

Why don't you find them for us- you obviously know where they are (the South probably).

But again, I repeat, Switzerland may have a lot of guns, but are much better controlled than in the USA- both in gun clubs and hunting- so why come to Switzerland if you have a love of guns. Does not make sense, it seems.
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  #1825  
Old 09.05.2015, 20:34
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I guess you don't see everything that is happening in the US over here. Police shooting unarmed people in the back as they run away then claim their lives felt threatened but luckily someone recorded it because his dashcam wasn't working. Or the LAPD shooting an unarmed homeless man in front of witness and still attempted to lie to cover it up. These events are happening weekly in the US.

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NY is not the place to find them

Why don't you find them for us- you obviously know where they are (the South probably).

But again, I repeat, Switzerland may have a lot of guns, but are much better controlled than in the USA- both in gun clubs and hunting- so why come to Switzerland if you have a love of guns. Does not make sense, it seems.
Find what? I said you wound't find pro-gun articles in mainstream media. You want me to post something that does not exists? What do you want me to find? What is the South?

Love for guns? What on earth are you talking about? Stating facts puts you on one side or the other?

Last edited by 3Wishes; 08.06.2015 at 18:40. Reason: merging consecutive replies
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  #1826  
Old 09.05.2015, 21:08
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Re: THE US Gun Control & Second Amendment Thread

Previous posts when you introduced yourself seems to indicate you enjoy your guns. As far as articles are concerned, I said that NY is not the place to find pro-guns articles. I am sure you know where the South States of the USA are, no need for a list surely.

Whether pro-guns articles do exists in parts of the USA, I haven't got a clue- Which is why I was asking you to link to any that you might be aware of.
Glad they do not exist though
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  #1827  
Old 09.05.2015, 23:32
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Previous posts when you introduced yourself seems to indicate you enjoy your guns. As far as articles are concerned, I said that NY is not the place to find pro-guns articles. I am sure you know where the South States of the USA are, no need for a list surely.

Whether pro-guns articles do exists in parts of the USA, I haven't got a clue- Which is why I was asking you to link to any that you might be aware of.
Glad they do not exist though
I think you may have misunderstood my post where I was saying that there were no pro-gun articles hence the "mainstream" media is not pro-gun but very one sided based on factors beyond this forum.

However if you separate the facts from the media propaganda things paint a totally different story. This was the point of my initial post that everyone was posting opinions but not the facts (referencing an article is only posting the authors or editors opinion).

Why do you think the Southern States would have pro-gun articles over other states?

You might want to look at recent history and what happened at Katrina - if they even reported on it outside the US. The military and police went around wealthy areas and illegally confiscated peoples guns so they could not defend themselves. As a result some with murdered and other processions stolen. They state government has since apologized for that but does not mean they won't do it again.

I'll ask again - what you you do to defend yourself against a home invasion?

You need to remember the media in the US is controlled by the establishment and follow their agenda.

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  #1828  
Old 09.05.2015, 23:35
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Re: THE US Gun Control & Second Amendment Thread

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I'll ask again - what you you do to defend yourself against a home invasion?
Move to a civilised country, perhaps?

Or, and I know this might be a long shot, try and make the place you live more civilised so you don't need to worry about such things?
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  #1829  
Old 09.05.2015, 23:44
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Re: THE US Gun Control & Second Amendment Thread

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Move to a civilised country, perhaps?

Or, and I know this might be a long shot, try and make the place you live more civilised so you don't need to worry about such things?
Good luck with that. Let me know when you find such a place. In between time I hope you don't have to face such an event but personally I would rather be prepared and never need it rather than have my family raped and killed buy some criminal.
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  #1830  
Old 10.05.2015, 00:27
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Re: THE US Gun Control & Second Amendment Thread

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Good luck with that. Let me know when you find such a place.
God, that's so far back I don't remember any more.
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  #1831  
Old 10.05.2015, 11:02
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Re: THE US Gun Control & Second Amendment Thread

Really? I quote from the FBI report on mass shootings between 2000 and 2013:

"The findings establish an increasing frequency of incidents annually. During the first 7 years included in the study, an average of 6.4 incidents occurred annually. In the last 7 years of the study, that average increased to 16.4 incidents annually."

http://www.fbi.gov/news/stories/2014/september/fbi-releases-study-on-active-shooter-incidents/pdfs/a-study-of-active-shooter-incidents-in-the-u.s.-between-2000-and-2013

BIG reduction there - I don't think. Perhaps you should read the report again. Of course it doesn't cover either mass shootings or mass killings, only active shooter incidents which it made clear in it's introduction.

And I'm still waiting for you to produce your data to say otherwise.

And you have to ask why Americans worry so much about "home invasion". No one else around the world does - which is probably why we don't see the need to arm ourselves against it. Name a country where a) all weapons have been banned and b) mass geocide resulted from it.

Reading both the LATimes and The Atlantic articles gave me the impression that they were more pro than anti. However, you rather blotted your own arguments with the usual "the media in the US is controlled by the establishment" get out phrase.

I'll finish with a couple of quotes fro the Atlantic article because they are relevant and explain why all this is a waste of time anyway.

"But even some moderate gun-control activists, such as Dan Gross, have trouble accepting that guns in private hands can work effectively to counteract violence. When I asked him the question I posed to Stephen Barton and Tom Mauser—would you, at a moment when a stranger is shooting at you, prefer to have a gun, or not?—he answered by saying, “This is the conversation the gun lobby wants you to be having.” He pointed out some of the obvious flaws in concealed-carry laws, such as too-lax training standards and too much discretionary power on the part of local law-enforcement officials. He did say that if concealed-carry laws required background checks and training similar to what police recruits undergo, he would be slower to raise objections. But then he added: “In a fundamental way, isn’t this a question about the kind of society we want to live in?” Do we want to live in one “in which the answer to violence is more violence, where the answer to guns is more guns?”

What Gross won’t acknowledge is that in a nation of nearly 300 million guns, his question is irrelevant."

"But these gun-control efforts, while noble, would only have a modest impact on the rate of gun violence in America.

Why?

Because it’s too late."
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  #1832  
Old 10.05.2015, 13:53
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Re: THE US Gun Control & Second Amendment Thread

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You need to remember the media in the US is controlled by the establishment and follow their agenda.
And it has obviously had a big impact on you - they've got you so filled with fear, you feel the need to go out and buy a bunch of weapons that you don't need. The establishment is profiting from your fear as you follow their agenda.

You're scared of everybody - home invasion rapists, the police, and the genocidal government itself... Is there anyone you're not scared of? If there were a gun for each adult american*, would that really help to lessen your anxiety?



oh sorry, there already is, and then some..
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  #1833  
Old 10.05.2015, 14:05
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Re: THE US Gun Control & Second Amendment Thread

No one is scared here. We are all chilled. No one voted for supersonic fighter jets buried in James Bond silos, or nuclear bunker facilities for every household, or for tank traps left right and centre, explosives hidden under bridges, in tunnels, and in picturesque market towns or even a militia that steals every young boy with only the insane safe from forced conscription. Democracy could never survive in an environment like that.

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You're scared of everybody - home invasion rapists, the police, and the genocidal government itself... Is there anyone you're not scared of? If there were a gun for each adult american*, would that really help to lessen your anxiety?
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  #1834  
Old 10.05.2015, 14:14
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Re: THE US Gun Control & Second Amendment Thread

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No one is scared here. We are all chilled. No one voted for supersonic fighter jets buried in James Bond silos, or nuclear bunker facilities for every household, or for tank traps left right and centre, explosives hidden under bridges, in tunnels, and in picturesque market towns or even a militia that steals every young boy with only the insane safe from forced conscription. Democracy could never survive in an environment like that.
I think you've missed the point. Way off... apples and oranges.

There are obvious differences between CH and the US, in terms of mentality, crime rates, gun accidents, etc. This thread is about US gun control.

The poster I quoted had mentioned his fear of each of these 'threats' - home invaders, police, and the US gov't.

Forced conscription isn't as bad as you may think - instead of military service, the Swiss can opt to do social service. There are quite a few of these guys who come to take the elderly folks on walks/ provide company/ push wheelchairs, etc. for the retirement home next to where I live.

It's not like the US Vietnam draft...


note: personally, I'm not anti-guns or pro gun control. However, seeing my female cousins, caught up in the hysteria of fear, buying handguns - when i'm sure that most any attacker could quickly disarm them and turn a mugging into a murder - that scares me. The wild west mentality is the problem.

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  #1835  
Old 10.05.2015, 14:16
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Re: THE US Gun Control & Second Amendment Thread

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In between time I hope you don't have to face such an event but personally I would rather be prepared and never need it rather than have my family raped and killed buy some criminal.
With the level of fear you are exhibiting you are far more likely to shoot an innocent person or one of your family than anything else!
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  #1836  
Old 10.05.2015, 15:33
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Re: THE US Gun Control & Second Amendment Thread

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Good luck with that. Let me know when you find such a place.
It's not about finding it, but about making it. In other words, the difference between being a consumer and being a citizen. I know the latter is so hard, it's easy to give up.
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  #1837  
Old 10.05.2015, 19:28
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Re: THE US Gun Control & Second Amendment Thread

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And it has obviously had a big impact on you - they've got you so filled with fear, you feel the need to go out and buy a bunch of weapons that you don't need. The establishment is profiting from your fear as you follow their agenda.
I think there is a difference between compulsively going out any buying a weapon, and accepting that the monopoly of force should not be in the hands of the government and thus accepting that people have a right to arm themselves.

Sometimes armed citizens shoot one another in error. Sometimes the police also shoots citizens in error. Sometimes NATO bombs the Chinese embassy in Belgrade in error. You don't have to be a simple citizen to get it wrong.

People who want to be armed often feel that way because they feel the government is not on their side. A lot of people feel that way, and not just in the USA. Maybe, rather than asking whether people have a right to arms, we should be asking, what has the government done to lose people's trust to that extent and what can it do to regain that trust and create the transparency and accountability that obviously it doesn't have.

One-sidedly bumbling on about guns is to confuse the symptom for the problem.
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  #1838  
Old 10.05.2015, 19:41
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Re: THE US Gun Control & Second Amendment Thread

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accepting that the monopoly of force should not be in the hands of the government
ouch! That hurt.
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  #1839  
Old 10.05.2015, 19:58
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Re: THE US Gun Control & Second Amendment Thread

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I think there is a difference between compulsively going out any buying a weapon, and accepting that the monopoly of force should not be in the hands of the government and thus accepting that people have a right to arm themselves.
Not really, its only a question of degree. Lack of armed citizenry in most of Europe seems to work OK.
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  #1840  
Old 10.05.2015, 20:52
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Re: THE US Gun Control & Second Amendment Thread

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I think there is a difference between compulsively going out any buying a weapon, and accepting that the monopoly of force should not be in the hands of the government and thus accepting that people have a right to arm themselves.
You weren't serious when you wrote this, were you?

It's sarcastic, right?
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