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View Poll Results: If faced with being both blind and deaf, would you opt for euthanasia?
No, I would want to live no matter what 27 42.86%
Yes, it's time to check out 36 57.14%
Voters: 63. You may not vote on this poll

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  #21  
Old 15.01.2013, 15:02
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Re: Would you choose euthanasia over deaf & blindness?

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Cases like this only weaken the argument for euthanasia IMHO. There are many deaf and blind people who lead fulfilling lives, and so its wrong to give the impression that life is no longer worth living after that stage.
So because some deaf and blind people are happy and lead fulfilling lives, you would force every blind and deaf person, even those who wish to die, to stay alive?

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It could be seen as gradually moving society towards an ethic of getting rid of people who can't be productive.
Do you think that's why they chose to end their own lives?
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  #22  
Old 15.01.2013, 15:04
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Re: Would you choose euthanasia over deaf & blindness?

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You've never heard of Helen Keller?
But she was born that way,
Not so. I suggest you read the article linked to.
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  #23  
Old 15.01.2013, 15:06
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Re: Would you choose euthanasia over deaf & blindness?

It seems like there are two parallel discussions
  • Would you want to end your life if you went deaf and blind?
  • Should society lower the bar on euthanasia?
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  #24  
Old 15.01.2013, 15:12
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Re: Would you choose euthanasia over deaf & blindness?

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It seems like there are two parallel discussions
  • Would you want to end your life if you went deaf and blind?
  • Should society lower the bar on euthanasia?
Part and parcel of the same principle. Being deaf and blind does block out several options that you may want to experience in life. Whilst life can indeed be wonderful when you can only touch, taste and smell in total darkness, most of us know that in the morning we can get up and regain the missing two senses.

Respecting euthanasia is respecting other people and their right to make their own choices however much difficulty that we might have in understanding or appreciating their wishes. Live and let die if that works for those who would rather depart.
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  #25  
Old 15.01.2013, 15:14
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Re: Would you choose euthanasia over deaf & blindness?

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Not so. I suggest you read the article linked to.
Close enough, she was an infant. Totally different than an educated adult.

Tom
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  #26  
Old 15.01.2013, 15:16
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Re: Would you choose euthanasia over deaf & blindness?

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It seems like there are two parallel discussions
  • Would you want to end your life if you went deaf and blind?
  • Should society lower the bar on euthanasia?
Two discussions indeed. Would I want to check out? No freaking way, first I would be far too cowered, imagine you killed yourself and a year or so later Apple comes out with the i-blind, beams information via microwave directly to the optical nerve, for i-phone 12 and i-pad 6. There is always the possibility for something to come along.
Lower the bar? Again Hell no! I can imagine a situation... "Damn Granny, just how inconsiderate can you be, you any idea what your old folks home costs?" How low should the bar be?
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  #27  
Old 15.01.2013, 16:09
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Re: Would you choose euthanasia over deaf & blindness?

being deaf and blind might improve my marriage situation somewhat.

and euthanasia? not while i'm still capable of receiving blow jobs!
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  #28  
Old 15.01.2013, 16:12
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Re: Would you choose euthanasia over deaf & blindness?

It's there decision....
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  #29  
Old 15.01.2013, 16:21
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Re: Would you choose euthanasia over deaf & blindness?

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Sorry, but unless you're in their position, you'll never be in a mental state that would give you the insight (no pun) into their emotional feelings that influences their actions.
this is also an argument against euthanasia. they themselves will not know until they are deaf and blind.

it has been shown that people exaggerate in their minds the impact of things (both good and bad e.g. how happy they will be when they win something, or when something bad happens) and so the decision may be based on misjudged feelings.

personally, i have no problems with people topping themselves (one less competitor for resources) but legalising killing people because they are deaf and blind (even with permission) - there's something a bit unsavory about it. where do you draw the line? allow killing anybody with disabilities? well, i guess there'd be better parking spaces for the rest of us...
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  #30  
Old 15.01.2013, 16:57
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Re: Would you choose euthanasia over deaf & blindness?

senses remaining are completely relied upon hence enhanced, to taste, feel or smell as someone whom is deaf and blind must be pure ecstasy. I did see once a blind skier with a guide at Crystal Mountain in Seattle once, now that is something to be admired, absolutely not giving in.
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  #31  
Old 15.01.2013, 17:02
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Re: Would you choose euthanasia over deaf & blindness?

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personally, i have no problems with people topping themselves (one less competitor for resources) but legalising killing people because they are deaf and blind (even with permission) - there's something a bit unsavory about it. where do you draw the line? allow killing anybody with disabilities? well, i guess there'd be better parking spaces for the rest of us...
Where do we draw the line WILL NEVER come into play when a human being is alone in their room, having to un dignify themselves, and cause the person who finds them terrible grief.

Your team loses, and you want to end it all? These two brothers, and all patients of end of life clinics have counseling first before they are allowed to proceed. Why people decide to stop living, and commit suicide is ultimately their own choice. Better to do it in a dignified way, going out on top like an athlete who realizes they are at the top of their game, then letting whatever it is widdle them down in agony, and ultimately taking their own lives, without first being able to give respectable good byes to the ones they love.

I can remember a girl from the town over from me when I was younger, who decided to kill her self. She loaded a 357 into her mouth and pulled the trigger. It exploded half of her face, and great deal of the back of her neck and did nothing to actually kill her. Now she is locked up in a mental health facility for the rest of her life, prison in effect, with dis figuring scars and a whole mess of tubes helping her to be fed and breath.

I don't care if she saw an episode of the Simpson's she didn't like and decided enough is enough. It's none of my business. Now she has to live a life of torture. People's decisions on what may or may not effect their conscience and after life, is far better then these gruesome outcomes, and mental torture on the ones they leave behind or have to still live with.
It amazes me why we aren't to a point of human understanding that we can't organize ourselves, feelings, faiths, for the good of the greater...each other's welfare.
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  #32  
Old 15.01.2013, 17:06
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Re: Would you choose euthanasia over deaf & blindness?

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But she was born that way...
Not quite.

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So because some deaf and blind people are happy and lead fulfilling lives, you would force every blind and deaf person, even those who wish to die, to stay alive?

Do you think that's why they chose to end their own lives?
It worries me that that is the case. It seems to me that being forced to remain alive is the lesser of two evils compared with being forced to die.
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  #33  
Old 16.01.2013, 12:08
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Re: Would you choose euthanasia over deaf & blindness?

Further details on this story

Twin brothers facing blindness choose to die by euthanasia



Belgian twins Marc and Eddy Verbessem could not bear the idea of never seeing each other again

IDENTICAL twin brothers who were going blind have been euthanised in a Brussels hospital because they could not bear the thought of never seeing each another again.

It emerged today that the euthanasia took place on 14 December when doctors gave lethal injections to 45-year-old siblings Marc and Eddy Verbessem, who were also deaf.

Euthanasia is legal in Belgium. However, the case was unique in that the twins were suffering neither a terminal illness nor unbearable physical pain, the Daily Telegraph reports.

The twin's older brother Dirk Verbessem said his brothers, from Putte, outside Brussels, were "worn out" from disease.

Their request to die in their local hospital was refused because doctors said they did not believe it would be legal. "I do not think this was what the legislation meant by 'unbearable suffering'," one doctor was quoted as saying.

However, David Dufour, a doctor at Brussels University Hospital, was prepared to help them die and said they were "very happy" when the time came.

"They had a cup of coffee in the hall, it went well... The separation from their parents and brother was very serene and beautiful. At the last there was a little wave of their hands and then they were gone."

Belgium became in 2002 the second country in the world to legalise euthanasia, after the Netherlands.

According to the BBC, Belgian law states that if a patient clearly asks for euthanasia and a doctor judges they are suffering unbearable pain they can be lethally injected. This is not the same as in Switzerland, where only "assisted suicide" is legal meaning patients must take a drug which kills them.

Latest statistics show that 1,133 people underwent euthanasia in Belgium in 2011, accounting for one per cent of deaths in the country. The Daily Mail reports that the majority of those choosing euthanasia were suffering from terminal cancer.

Source
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  #34  
Old 19.01.2013, 22:17
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Re: Would you choose euthanasia over deaf & blindness?

Right after reading this thread I came across this link (thank you big-brother-browser-tracing-bots): http://www.nyuskirball.org/calendar/notbybreadalone
Judging by the preview it looks like a show worth watching.
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  #35  
Old 19.01.2013, 22:33
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Re: Would you choose euthanasia over deaf & blindness?

Few months ago, A guy back in Canada got a nasty infection and while in coma, they made the decision to cut the affected part: both arms and legs. He thought he would come around with it but couldn't. He asked his mom to help him to die and she couldn't. She understood him and told him if he manage to die, she would understand but she just couldn't do it herself.

He found someone who did it through poison. Police is investigating but aren't really looking into finding the guy as I believe, it wasn't a murder.

I hope things change in Canada and euthanasia become acceptable in the face of the law. My grand-dad who wasn't able to live with Parkinson's and the complete loss of autonomy got help from the doctors.

Being in both of these situations, I would too ask for help to stop this nonsense.
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  #36  
Old 19.01.2013, 22:47
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It always has to be judged on a case by case basis. One person can live with a particular situation, while another cannot.

In this case, these brothers lived together, worked together and did work that relied on their sight. Take the sight away, and i could envision that each brother would live in a unique prison, no longer able to care for himself,no longer to do the work that ensured his independence. But none of us really knows how we'd feel in this particular situation, and not many of us know what it's like to have a particular bond with an identical twin.

It seems like this was discussed carefully within the family, and with physicians. If you're going to allow euthanasia at all, you're going to have to allow it to happen in situations that have been carefully thought through by the people involved, not outsiders imposing their judgment. It's very sad - these twins were only 45 - young - but it seems their decision was made carefully and rationally.
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  #37  
Old 19.01.2013, 23:45
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Re: Would you choose euthanasia over deaf & blindness?

i'm sitting with option 1, although this is will always be personal choice.
Saying that i have worked with deaf and blind child and they had a brilliant quality life. they saw the world in ways a seeing, hearing person never could.
it really depends if you have it in you to say 'ok i cant see or hear but i'm still going to have a life' - personal opinion

but situation differ for different people, what ok for one my not be ok for another.
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  #38  
Old 19.01.2013, 23:45
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Re: Would you choose euthanasia over deaf & blindness?

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then again, she was in her mid 90's, not 40's. I am not sure that any civilized society should be in the business of euthanizing relatively young people who are perfectly healthy other than a sensory handicap.
But how is it our place to sit and decide?

This really bothers me. I don't think I have a place to tell someone else whether they have a right to take their own lives.. this is based entirely on religious dogma that has no place in law.
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  #39  
Old 19.01.2013, 23:57
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Re: Would you choose euthanasia over deaf & blindness?

I've always found it strange that we consider it normal and kind to put sick animals "out of their misery" and yet we question how ethical it is to do it to humans.

It should be the individual sufferer's choice. No one else could possibly feel or truly understand what that person is thinking and feeling.
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Old 20.01.2013, 00:18
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Re: Would you choose euthanasia over deaf & blindness?

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Fair enough, however what the whole euthanasia discussion is about is social acceptance and assistance, because without being too blunt about it, its very easy to kill yourself.
Is it? Without resorting to Google, I can't immediately think of a very easy way to kill myself. I can think of fairly quick ways to do it, but they would be terrifying and therefore not easy.

I suppose there are drugs that could be administered easily, and do the job very quickly and without pain, but these don't seem to be readily available.

But this is getting off-topic. The question was about your willingness to continue living without sight or hearing. Personally, I doubt I would bother, unless there was a method of receiving information and expressing oneself that could be learnt fairly quickly. If I could somehow 'listen' to the radio and 'read' books and write stuff, then I'd be happy enough to entertain myself like that. If reasonable communication was impossible, I can't see much point in hanging around.
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