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  #141  
Old 04.03.2015, 10:44
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Re: Israel & US- What to do about Iran Nuke program?

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If we would have farted, they might have applauded. Hahaha.
And it doesn't bother you to see your democratically elected representatives show such cringe-worthy sycophancy towards a foreign leader?
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  #142  
Old 04.03.2015, 10:58
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Re: Israel & US- What to do about Iran Nuke program?

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And it doesn't bother you to see your democratically elected representatives show such cringe-worthy sycophancy towards a foreign leader?
No, these are just politics, and not cults of personalities. And despite what I might think and feel about the roughness of Netanyahu as a person, and the damage he's caused in the region, I actually agreed with the merits of many of the things he said. I think he shows more spine and leadership than Obama. Both these characters will be gone, yet we'll still have reality to deal with. It really isn't about them.
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  #143  
Old 04.03.2015, 11:18
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Re: Israel & US- What to do about Iran Nuke program?

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And it doesn't bother you to see your democratically elected representatives show such cringe-worthy sycophancy towards a foreign leader?
In the same way that democratically elected UK politicians would clamber over dead puppies for a photo opportunity with Nelson Mandela?
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  #144  
Old 04.03.2015, 11:32
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Re: Israel & US- What to do about Iran Nuke program?

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In the same way that democratically elected UK politicians would clamber over dead puppies for a photo opportunity with Nelson Mandela?
Mandela was a great leader, humanitarian and an inspiration to many.
Netanyahu??... well he's a legend in his own bedroom at least

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The prime minister’s wife accuses Ben Melekh and her husband of being jealous of Netanyahu as she brags about his talents and how he is admired and loved.

“Does anyone in the country want anyone else other than Bibi? Huh?! Someone in this entire country?! They admire Binyamin Netanyahu the entire world over!

“[He is] a man [who] took all of the State of Israel upon his shoulders; he sends soldiers to war, he behaves with rare political wisdom, speaks with leaders all the time! Binyamin Netanyahu’s experience, his wisdom, his education!

“[He has] extensive education, university degrees. He also reads books, understands the economy, security, policy, he knows how to speak with leaders of the world! Where is your man? He doesn’t even reach the ankles of my husband, what, did Eli Moyal ever speak once with leaders of the world?! Did he ever do something in his life?

“… He [Binyamin Netanyahu] is one of the most veteran leaders in the world. In the United States they say that if he had been born in the US, he’d have been elected president there.”
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  #145  
Old 04.03.2015, 11:32
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Re: Israel & US- What to do about Iran Nuke program?

I imagine Arab Sunnis agree with Netanyahu on the topic of Iran Nukes.
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  #146  
Old 04.03.2015, 11:38
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Re: Israel & US- What to do about Iran Nuke program?

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Mind you, these are not solely Israeli interests. Our Arab... ahem... allies <ouch> would like just as hard if not harder approach to Iran. If Iran were to go nuclear, that region is fUK'd.
the entire region is already FUBAR, and just about anybody who knows anything about the situation believes that Netanyahu's assessment of Iran's potential for nukes is grossly overblown and overdone.

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26 standing ovations in total.... really???
the extent of the standing ovations is often inversely proportional to what actually happens once the chamber doors are closed.
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  #147  
Old 04.03.2015, 11:48
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Re: Israel & US- What to do about Iran Nuke program?

So what if Iran gets a nuke? The same mechanisms will apply between Iran and Israel as between the US and the CCCP during the cold war, a stalemate until everybody wizens up.
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  #148  
Old 04.03.2015, 11:53
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Re: Israel & US- What to do about Iran Nuke program?

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Mandela was a great leader, humanitarian and an inspiration to many.
Netanyahu??... well he's a legend in his own bedroom at least
Still killed innocents though. Which is anyway beside the point. Politicians will do anything if they think it'll enhance their own reputation. I still remember Gordon Brown chasing Obama around like an autograph hunter at the UN when he first go into power. I doubt anyone would chase Barry now.

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So what if Iran gets a nuke? The same mechanisms will apply between Iran and Israel as between the US and the CCCP during the cold war, a stalemate until everybody wizens up.
Either that or they'd just drop it on Riyadh.
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Old 04.03.2015, 12:07
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Re: Israel & US- What to do about Iran Nuke program?

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the entire region is already FUBAR, and just about anybody who knows anything about the situation believes that Netanyahu's assessment of Iran's potential for nukes is grossly overblown and overdone.
I agree it is overblown and shrill. The fearmongering is part of the persuasion. Yet it is true that it opens a pathway for Iran. The only problem is he hasn't put forth a better alternative. Only that we should try to get a better deal, which is, of course, desirable. I don't think we should be making deals with those engaged in bad intent and behavior. But, yes, we already do.


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So what if Iran gets a nuke? The same mechanisms will apply between Iran and Israel as between the US and the CCCP during the cold war, a stalemate until everybody wizens up.
I doubt that. CCCP was motivated by economics. Iran is motivated by the afterlife, or so they say.
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  #150  
Old 04.03.2015, 13:43
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Re: Israel & US- What to do about Iran Nuke program?

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I doubt that. CCCP was motivated by economics. Iran is motivated by the afterlife, or so they say.
the extremist Islam in Iran is driven by the same thing that the "revolution" that was run by the US and UK in the early 1950's was driven by - control of oil. given that a significant percentage of the population in Iran is under the age of 30, it should also not be surprising that the extremism has been slowly ratcheting down over the last couple of years. in other words, Iran is facing much of the same "modernization" pressure as is Saudi, with the exception that the 2 countries find themselves on opposite ends of the love / hate spectrum in the west.

I am actually reasonably optimistic about Iran - the country has at least tentative roots in democracy (which were rather ironically killed by the US and even more so the UK), and its culture and history aligns much more closely with the west than does Saudi culture and history (other, of course, than with respect to who owns its oil). and, unlike in Saudi where the extremism is a negative reaction to all of the US financial and military aid that has quite literally flooded the country with wealth over the last 50+ years, the extremism in Iran is at least on some levels a justifiable reaction to the horrific actions of the US and the UK over the last 70+ years.

this is no way means that I don't find the statements and policies of Iran inexcusable when it comes to Israel and state-sponsored terrorism, but rather that I think the right diplomacy has the potential over time to compel a change in those statements and policies.
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  #151  
Old 04.03.2015, 16:47
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Re: Israel & US- What to do about Iran Nuke program?

Oh, I have a LOT of faith on and admiration for Persians, and their civilization. The problem with their current regime is their constant diatribes about the destruction of Israel. I don't think it would be very intelligent to say they don't really mean it, or act like we didn't hear any of it. I think that ought to be reversed before making any deals that empower them to do real damage to Israel. I would love to see Iran bloom and transform to the level where they should be. But their government is sadly not there.

Wishful thinking is great, but needs to be cross checked with reality.
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  #152  
Old 04.03.2015, 17:31
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Re: Israel & US- What to do about Iran Nuke program?

[QUOTE=crazygringo;2352217]the entire region is already FUBAR, and just about anybody who knows anything about the situation believes that Netanyahu's assessment of Iran's potential for nukes is grossly overblown and overdone.


Seems Saudi Arabia and other Arab countries will not rely on a nuclear deal between USA and Iran.
http://www.clarionproject.org/






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  #153  
Old 04.03.2015, 18:06
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Re: Israel & US- What to do about Iran Nuke program?

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So what if Iran gets a nuke? The same mechanisms will apply between Iran and Israel as between the US and the CCCP during the cold war, a stalemate until everybody wizens up.
Problem is that nobody in Israel, the US and the CCCP believes that when they kill a lot of people they will go to heaven and be serviced by virgins whereas ......
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  #154  
Old 04.03.2015, 18:36
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Re: Israel & US- What to do about Iran Nuke program?

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Problem is that nobody in Israel, the US and the CCCP believes that when they kill a lot of people they will go to heaven and be serviced by virgins whereas ......
The leaders or Iran arent uneducated teenage boys. When they look at the world around them, they only need to remember what happened to Saddam Hussein, AFTER he gave up his nuclear programs.

They would also look at North Korea, which is arguably even more dangerous to US allies, but of course not to Israel, and recognize the value of nukes as a deterrent.

And as for a terrorist nation that threatens the world with nukes, I don't recall Netanyahu saying anything about Pakistan.

So his performance comes down to the Republicans resorting to slimy measures to shore up their bankrupt foreign policy objectives, rather than any real nuclear threat from Iran.
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  #155  
Old 04.03.2015, 18:48
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Re: Israel & US- What to do about Iran Nuke program?

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Problem is that nobody in Israel, the US and the CCCP believes that when they kill a lot of people they will go to heaven and be serviced by virgins whereas ......
..nether do the Iranians, at least not those in charge, methinks you are falling into the "them evil musses" trap of the western media GrrrRRRR Woofwoofery.
(disclaimer: Spent almost three months in Iran on assignment) your average Iranian is just like you or me, and in the streets of Tehran there is not a hijab in sight, but there are street cafes, vendors, shops, malls even, public transport worked and girls blushed gigglingly when I wolf whistled, I tried the most awesome ice cream made from rice and topped with rose syrup at a (verbatim) Gelateria Italia, women drive (badly, like the men) I felt safe and unthreatened, the entire city had a good vibe to it as did the people, at the customer site we drank Beer, Tuborg, warm and out of a battered red can, watered down with red label whiskey and listened to bootleg western music, the blood fountain at the cemetery of martyrs was a tad over the top and the EYES, or ernest young english speakers, aka students wanting to practice their english were a bit annoying after the 100th time, anybody who has been in the area will tell you about the EYES.
So don't worry about Iran, the garden variety Iranian is cool.
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  #156  
Old 04.03.2015, 20:17
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Re: Israel & US- What to do about Iran Nuke program?

Looks like Obama is trying to push through a deal just to claim he actually accomplished something. Just like he said he defeated Al Qaeda and terrorism, but by simply not calling it that anymore. This is how democrats drag the US into war. They've done it time and time again.
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Old 04.03.2015, 20:27
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Re: Israel & US- What to do about Iran Nuke program?

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The leaders or Iran arent uneducated teenage boys. When they look at the world around them, they only need to remember what happened to Saddam Hussein, AFTER he gave up his nuclear programs.

They would also look at North Korea, which is arguably even more dangerous to US allies, but of course not to Israel, and recognize the value of nukes as a deterrent.

And as for a terrorist nation that threatens the world with nukes, I don't recall Netanyahu saying anything about Pakistan.

So his performance comes down to the Republicans resorting to slimy measures to shore up their bankrupt foreign policy objectives, rather than any real nuclear threat from Iran.
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..nether do the Iranians, at least not those in charge, methinks you are falling into the "them evil musses" trap of the western media GrrrRRRR Woofwoofery.
(disclaimer: Spent almost three months in Iran on assignment) your average Iranian is just like you or me, and in the streets of Tehran there is not a hijab in sight, but there are street cafes, vendors, shops, malls even, public transport worked and girls blushed gigglingly when I wolf whistled, I tried the most awesome ice cream made from rice and topped with rose syrup at a (verbatim) Gelateria Italia, women drive (badly, like the men) I felt safe and unthreatened, the entire city had a good vibe to it as did the people, at the customer site we drank Beer, Tuborg, warm and out of a battered red can, watered down with red label whiskey and listened to bootleg western music, the blood fountain at the cemetery of martyrs was a tad over the top and the EYES, or ernest young english speakers, aka students wanting to practice their english were a bit annoying after the 100th time, anybody who has been in the area will tell you about the EYES.
So don't worry about Iran, the garden variety Iranian is cool.
I agree the leaders are not uneducated teenage boys and I also know the average Iranian is just like you or me.

The risk is that the supreme leader Ayatollah Khamenei is 75 years old, believes he is Gods representative on earth, probably has not so long to live (10 - 15 years max?) and could believe "what has he to lose by rolling the dice?".
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Old 04.03.2015, 20:59
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Re: Israel & US- What to do about Iran Nuke program?

Genocide Watch is an organization that studies patterns of genocide, and describes 8 stages the lead up to genocide:
http://www.genocidewatch.org/genocid...fgenocide.html

Iran has fulfilled 6, according to them:
http://www.genocidewatch.org/iran.html

I don't see this deal passing the senate. Obama may have to try to pass it by expanding executive powers, or through the other countries involved in the deal. They need to include provisions to de-escalate the tensions with Israel, or wait until Iran is willing to.

Last edited by Phos; 04.03.2015 at 21:28.
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Old 04.03.2015, 22:59
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Re: Israel & US- What to do about Iran Nuke program?

"Oh, and by the way, do you think you can spare a biseleh gelt, you know, just in case?"
http://edition.cnn.com/2015/03/04/po...gon/index.html

wow. Thick. haha
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Old 05.03.2015, 08:38
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Re: Israel & US- What to do about Iran Nuke program?

An old joke:
On the sixth day, G-d turned to the Angels and said: "Today I am going to create a land called Israel, it will be a land of mountains full of snow, sparkling lakes, forests full of all kinds of trees, high cliffs overlooking sandy beaches with an abundance of sea life."
G-d continued: "I shall make the land rich so as to make the inhabitants prosper, and I shall call these inhabitants Israelis, and they shall be known to all the people on earth."
"But Lord," asked the Angels, "don't you think You are being too generous to these Israelis ?"
"Not really." G-d replied, "Just wait and see the neighbours I am going to give them."


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