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  #141  
Old 07.06.2013, 23:34
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Re: Turkish Spring?

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People in Gezi Parkı are broadcasting from their own TV. They don't need media which is known to be serving the government.

Please check: http://capul.tv/
I am not astonished that the day arrived when people in Turkey would become fed up with Mr Erdogan, but I AM INDEED astonished about how swiftly and suddenly it happened
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  #142  
Old 08.06.2013, 14:24
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Re: Turkish Spring?

Erdogan is continuing to make harsh comments & the protestors are also not backing down. It is claimed that protests have now spread to more than 70 cities. As Wolly wrote "I AM INDEED astonished about how swiftly and suddenly it happened"
This is likely to end very badly leaving a heritage of deep wounds & continued unrest

EU are dropping hints that this will not help Turkey's bid to join but so far Erdogan is responding aggressively to this.......
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  #143  
Old 08.06.2013, 19:56
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Re: Turkish Spring?

Do they look like terrorists to you?

These are my friends who have to write their name and blood group on their arms in case something happens to them. How is this democracy?
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  #144  
Old 08.06.2013, 20:08
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Re: Turkish Spring?

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Do they look like terrorists to you?

These are my friends who have to write their name and blood group on their arms in case something happens to them. How is this democracy?
No!

http://www.demotix.com/news/2112628/...park/all-media
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  #145  
Old 09.06.2013, 04:24
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Re: Turkish Spring?

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Erdogan is continuing to make harsh comments & the protestors are also not backing down. It is claimed that protests have now spread to more than 70 cities. As Wolly wrote "I AM INDEED astonished about how swiftly and suddenly it happened"
This is likely to end very badly leaving a heritage of deep wounds & continued unrest

EU are dropping hints that this will not help Turkey's bid to join but so far Erdogan is responding aggressively to this.......
the E.U. entry is a longterm goal, but Erdogan knows that much of the industry is against it, not least due to the minium wages system of the EU. The Turkish induestry competes with the industries of Egypt and India and China where wages are much lower than in Turkey. Turkish industrialists also fear an increased braindrain as result of an EU-entry.

Add to this that in Germany, the Bavarian CSU, small but influential, forces Germany into opting against the Turkish EU-entry for the time being. And that France, in order to support Israel and the Arab World, has its total emphasis on the Mediterranean Partnership (EU/EFTA on one side and Morocco, Algeria, Tunisia, Libya, Egypt, Israel, Lebanon, Syria, Jordan on the other). This aspect is a main reason why Turkey puts so much urgency to see the crisis in Syria overcome, as it seriously blocks Turkey, indiractly via France

And the EU "dropping hints" ? They might as well drop whatever. They rather should make their mind up. They gave negative comments when Erddogan with some 30% of the votes got a clear majority in parliament. The reason for this is that the Turkish parliament has a minimum-quota of 20%, so that all small parties are blocked out. And now, when Mr Erdogan might be forced to resign, they again give negative comments

Both, the old Bavarian Prime Minister Franz Josef Strauss and the old but still alive senior journalist Peter Scholl-Latour in-person and in-writing told the Turks NOT to join the EU, but pursue an independent position between Europe, the Arab World and semi-Turkish ex-SovietUnion Central Asia . Both were/are very clear about the point that Turkey has enough substance to get through with such a position. The advice of the two big men was get closely associated with EU/EFTA and with the Arab League and with NAFTA but stay OUT

True, Mustafa Kemal looked to Europe for inspiration how to lead Turkey into the future, but I doubt that he would really have favoured an EU membership
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  #146  
Old 09.06.2013, 07:45
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Re: Turkish Spring?

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the E.U. entry is a longterm goal, but Erdogan knows that much of the industry is against it, not least due to the minium wages system of the EU. The Turkish induestry competes with the industries of Egypt and India and China where wages are much lower than in Turkey. Turkish industrialists also fear an increased braindrain as result of an EU-entry.
There is no minimum wage system in the EU. At all. Germany as the strongest industrial nation has no minimum wage (and in my opinion is the current "success" heavily based on too low wages - so the large companies benefit from it but the average worker does not).
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  #147  
Old 09.06.2013, 14:07
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Re: Turkish Spring?

The brutality of the police has been showed all over the place and there is no excuse for it.

But I also feel for the 6 police officers who commit suicide since the beginning of the protest.

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Policemen who have been drafted in from other cities have been sleeping on benches, shields or cardboard due to a lack of accommodation provided to them by state authorities, Sezer added.
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“We burn inside when we see those pictures [of police sleeping in difficult conditions]. As a union, the first thing we will do once the Gezi protests end is to take those photos and the rest of the evidence to file a criminal complaint with the prosecutor. I tell you, to put the policemen in those conditions is the same as treason to the country,” Sezer said.
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  #148  
Old 09.06.2013, 14:23
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Re: Turkish Spring?

Police officers have been force to work long hours without proper meals, rest and place to sleep. Not only the government doesn't listen the people but also mistreat those they put in the "bad guys" position.

"
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I am not doing this for my own enjoyment. I am here for my bread and butter and I am obligated to fulfill the orders I have been given."

* "I have seen my own relatives and friends amongst the protesters. I am uncomfortable with being placed in this position. They swear to my face. Those that are cursing us, please remove yourself from my friends' list."

* "In the apartment I live in, no one greets me anymore. My sister's colleagues, who work in a private firm, have distanced themselves from her because her brother is a police officer."

* "Don't throw stones, or curse, don't harm the environment, stores or vehicles! Just march, just defend your rights."

* "Right now I am with the Bayrampaşa Riot Police. There are a number of police officers around me that have been working for 50 hours and are in a position of not knowing what they are going to do. We have been working for four days now. We are sleeping on the streets or in vehicles. No one is honestly asking how we are doing."
More here
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  #149  
Old 09.06.2013, 16:10
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Re: Turkish Spring?

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There is no minimum wage system in the EU. At all. Germany as the strongest industrial nation has no minimum wage (and in my opinion is the current "success" heavily based on too low wages - so the large companies benefit from it but the average worker does not).
the wages in Turkey may be low if compared with Western Europe, but are roughly twice or three times as high as in Egypt. While the costs are only slightly higher.
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  #150  
Old 09.06.2013, 16:14
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Re: Turkish Spring?

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The brutality of the police has been showed all over the place and there is no excuse for it.

But I also feel for the 6 police officers who commit suicide since the beginning of the protest.

Amazing that Mr Erdogan is doing the same mistakes as General Mubarak ! He later on also can declare that police brutality was not ordered by him
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  #151  
Old 09.06.2013, 19:13
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Re: Turkish Spring?

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I'm not an expert at all, but from what I understand Turkey has been used as an entrance point for rebel fighters going to Syria. People who want to join the rebels take a plane to Turkey and get escorted by the police to the Syrian border where they get trained in camps.

Firstly, I doubt the Turkish public approves of this. Secondly, some of these same people may have been behind the bombings that were mentioned in previous posts, therefore making them even less popular with the Turkish people.
About "Turkey has been used as an entrance point for rebel fighters going to Syria".

I suppose this means there are now a lot of weapons floating around under loose control?
If Erdogan keeps up the aggressive approach & weapons start to appear in the hands of the protestors then it will all step up the action.
Then we will see if Erdogan did really tame his military?
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  #152  
Old 10.06.2013, 09:53
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Re: Turkish Spring?

Erdogan is learning how to use photoshop...

Here is a pucture of the "crowd" who welcomed him in Ankara.
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turkish-spring-image.jpg  
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  #153  
Old 10.06.2013, 10:11
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Re: Turkish Spring?

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Erdogan is learning how to use photoshop...

Here is a pucture of the "crowd" who welcomed him in Ankara.
These people are so enthusiastic that they have welcomed him multiple times. Only great leaders can achieve that!
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  #154  
Old 10.06.2013, 10:30
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Re: Turkish Spring?

This website gives a very good résumé of what has been going on for days.

Be aware, grafic contents.

Turkey has awakened
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  #155  
Old 10.06.2013, 11:06
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Re: Turkish Spring?

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Erdogan is learning how to use photoshop...

Here is a pucture of the "crowd" who welcomed him in Ankara.
If you look closely at that "photo" you'll see that there's a lot more duplication going on than just what's been circled.
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  #156  
Old 10.06.2013, 11:40
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Re: Turkish Spring?

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If you look closely at that "photo" you'll see that there's a lot more duplication going on than just what's been circled.
Yes, I saw it but that's what the photo was showing only. You can clearly see more.

One of the headline on a Turkish newspaper was saying that thousands of people was following Erdogan's bus when, clearly, you could see around 20-30 people only.
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  #157  
Old 11.06.2013, 15:14
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Re: Turkish Spring?

Around hundred of lawyers have been arrested by the police in Istanbul. Erdogan didn't follow his promises to not enter into Taksim square and friends told me police provocator entered the protestors side to throw Molotov bombs at the police. Manifestants are NOT attacking the police.


Gezi Park protester Bilal Oguz, a 31-year-old engineer, insisted that all those who threw petrol bombs today were plain clothes policemen.

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Speaking to the Guardian after witnessing the incident, he said:

About 10 people threw fire bombs at the police vehicles. But they were bearing police guns. They were not protesters they were civilian police – just to provoke people to attack police - but people didn’t do that. Actually they want to show protesters as violent people, but all the protesters left the square and went to Gezi Park.
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  #158  
Old 11.06.2013, 15:23
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Re: Turkish Spring?

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The Guardian's Luke Harding, who is on his way back from Istanbul, has more on fears that police provocateurs were involved.

There is widespread suspicion that many of the clashes between police and "protesters" have been faked, with social media suggesting that some of those throwing molotov cocktails are agent provocateurs.

Video footage on the website of the daily Hurriyet shows a small group of four of five "demonstrators" lobbing cocktails at police. But their attempts are suspiciously theatrical and inept – with the "demonstrators" at one point advancing in a hopeless Roman-style assault.

Turkish state media have broadcast footage of these encounters live, in stark contrast to the early days of the protests, marked by police brutality, which it failed entirely to report.

One of the activists in Taksim Square, Sevin Turan, has posted photos on her Twitter account showing one of the throwers. He is visibly balding, wears military-style khaki clothing, and bears no resemblance to the thousands of demonstrators who have peacefully occupied the square for the past 12 days.


Luke adds:

The throwers don't even remotely resemble the protesters I've spoken to and interviewed over past week, plus state TV had been tipped off and was there at 6am to cover the encounter.
The Guardian
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  #159  
Old 11.06.2013, 16:09
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Re: Turkish Spring?

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Around hundred of lawyers have been arrested by the police in Istanbul. Erdogan didn't follow his promises to not enter into Taksim square and friends told me police provocator entered the protestors side to throw Molotov bombs at the police. Manifestants are NOT attacking the police.


Gezi Park protester Bilal Oguz, a 31-year-old engineer, insisted that all those who threw petrol bombs today were plain clothes policemen.
Last week Erdogan said he was simply using the same procedures against protestors as used in UK & US.
I do not remember when UK & US started arresting defense lawyers; can somebody remind me?
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Old 11.06.2013, 23:15
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Re: Turkish Spring?

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There is no minimum wage system in the EU. At all. Germany as the strongest industrial nation has no minimum wage (and in my opinion is the current "success" heavily based on too low wages - so the large companies benefit from it but the average worker does not).


http://www.eu-mindestloehne.info/
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