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View Poll Results: How do you like North Korea to be in the Nuclear Club?
Don't care - they are too far away 0 0%
Acceptable: any country should be able to protect themselves w/ Nuclear bombs 1 11.11%
Not good, they should disarm immediately 6 66.67%
Oh My God! Someone shoot them please! Help!! 2 22.22%
Voters: 9. You may not vote on this poll

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  #1  
Old 16.10.2006, 15:29
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North Korea Nuclear Club Membership

How do you perceive the newest member of the Nuclear Club- North Korea?
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  #2  
Old 16.10.2006, 23:54
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Re: North Korea Nuclear Club Membership

Hat - a little tip. If you want to start a "juicy" thread it's best to put more meat on the bone in the initial post. Ask questions from different points of view and try to stimulate the initial debate. Provide quotes and links to news sources with interesting or unique points of view. See some of our other threads for examples of what I mean. A poll with a life of just five days won't be much fun either...
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  #3  
Old 17.10.2006, 01:58
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Re: North Korea Nuclear Club Membership

Especially since you yourself voted that it is acceptable to arm one's country with nuclear bombs! That requires some effort to justify, I mean you should state why you think that. Are you too young to have even experienced the cold war?
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  #4  
Old 17.10.2006, 02:09
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Re: North Korea Nuclear Club Membership

Quote:
Especially since you yourself voted that it is acceptable to arm one's country with nuclear bombs
Ummm, I think you meant Hat, not me. Since your post follows directly after mine and there is no quote, it looks like you were saying that I voted for the nuke option, but I didn't vote...

Anyway, haven't researched this issue enough, so I can't comment. Maybe I should just go out and read the Sun, then I'd know everything

Last edited by mark; 17.10.2006 at 12:28. Reason: spelling correction
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  #5  
Old 17.10.2006, 12:01
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Re: North Korea Nuclear Club Membership

Quote:
Especially since you yourself voted that it is acceptable to arm one's country with nuclear bombs! That requires some effort to justify, I mean you should state why you think that. Are you too young to have even experienced the cold war?
Yes, I am brinking a little on being insane.

However, I do still stand by my vote.
My reasons are simple: just look at Afghanistan and Iraq.
Any valid reasons to attack and overthrow their governments?

North Korea is doing 1 simple thing: self-preservation. Do you recall what Bush called them? Axis of Evil.

Will they deploy their tested Nuclear bombs, like what is termed in the west "preemptive strike" when their people are facing famine and starvation (as reported by Western media, like CNN. Foxnews, BBC), I think not.

They are simply saying, " leave us alone, treat us with dignity (remove sanctions and so on) and allow us to trade". Or do we go into Communism versus Democracy debate?
To each his own.

If there is another way to deter an attack on NK, then I believe they will do so too. Going Nuclear is one way to deter the trigger-happy Bush and Tony team.

I will not win many friends with this explanation, but I do not intend to, either. That is the beauty of freedom of thought and opinion.

HAT
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Old 17.10.2006, 12:05
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Re: North Korea Nuclear Club Membership

Quote:
Going Nuclear is one way to deter the trigger-happy Bush and Tony team.
I'm not a great fan of these two bozos but I have even less faith in the North Korean administration.
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  #7  
Old 17.10.2006, 12:19
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Re: North Korea Nuclear Club Membership

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I'm not a great fan of these two bozos but I have even less faith in the North Korean administration.
The fundamental question from me is this:
Based on WHAT, did you get this impression?

News? CNN? You visited NK?

After the Iraq war and 9/11, I suddenly lost faith in most newspapers and public media.

HAT
PS: Example: If I want people to hate my neighbours (for whatever personal reasons), I focus and publicise their weaknesses and add propaganda to it. Simple as 1-2-3. (does not link to my previous posts, please)
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  #8  
Old 17.10.2006, 12:26
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Re: North Korea Nuclear Club Membership

alright, you asked.

North Korea history books contain pictures of key things in history. You know the accord signed by Winston Churchill and other leaders after WW2? Well, North Korean history books feature pictures showing their leader in the picture too. He wasn't there. In fact, WW2 delivered Korea from the Japanese - albeit into the hands of the Russians and Americans.

Human rights. The record isn't so swell. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Human_r...in_North_Korea

Do pop into the 9/11 thread where you'll see I certainly am not pro-US/UK.

And congratulations to North Korea on their alleged WMDs - exactly what Bush and Blair were looking for in Iraq....
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  #9  
Old 17.10.2006, 12:33
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Re: North Korea Nuclear Club Membership

Quote:
News? CNN? You visited NK?
I did visit SK. I actually went very close to the DMZ (border). The military bases were on a high state of alert, which is aparrently the way things always are there. There is certainly a lot of tension. I was told some stories by some of the Americans about people in NK being so hungry that they dig up dead bodies after they die to eat them. To be honest, I dismissed these accounts as unfounded. We all know that soldiers are fed huge amounts of propoganda anyway...

Quote:
After the Iraq war and 9/11, I suddenly lost faith in most newspapers and public media.
While I don't specifically disbelieve that the situation inside NK is a grave one - I'll give you that point. I'm much less inclined to believe the official story after the multiple events in the last 5-6 years.
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  #10  
Old 17.10.2006, 12:36
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Re: North Korea Nuclear Club Membership

Of course most people get their news from the same Western sources. For myself my morning reading is the BBC, Guardian, Telegraph, Sydney Morning Herald, The Australian.

I don't think it's worth posting links to exact stories - there a many and they're easily located on those websites. The general gist is that our mate Kim is a bit of a nutter. There are (apparently) no real controls on the extremes he can go to when dealing with his own people.

In terms of nukes for self defense, i agree that it can be justified. However in this case i would half expect a North Korean cargo container to cruise into Sydney harbour and go off.

Yes, you have to take the Western media view with a pinch of salt. I'm sure the vast majority of North Korean's are no different than the South Koreans. But even with that pinch of salt, Kim is a serious threat.
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  #11  
Old 17.10.2006, 15:20
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Re: North Korea Nuclear Club Membership

Thanks for all the opinions.
I'd like to add some more.

I am not in favour of an additional nuclear country in Asia (My extended family lives in Singapore).

However I am in favour of "in your face" to the Bush Administration and Sir Tony.

Too many smaller countries are bullied and pushed to "prescribed democracy" by Big Brother Bush. How much truth is reported for Afghanistan (and her puppet President) and Iraq and their daily blood spilling? How much is further covered up?
B
y the same token, we can guess how much truth there is, in book, news media and wikipedia about NK.

You mean you really believe the Americans landed on the moon first?

In today's world, I think the bigger guns you have, the bigger voice you have. In case of NK, it is like so.

I will believe that NK and the
DPRK's leaders are likely to torture and kill dissidents, but what about US and UK who, even under heavy propaganda news agencies, still cock up with their secret prisons and dog-treatments of prisoners of war? Human rights? Only those with the guns can talk human rights.

All animals are equal, yeah right.

To each their own, spanking a child in Asia is called discipline, but in US and CH, the parents go to jail and the state takes care of the "poor parentless child". (PS: I don't spank my children, although I was taught to do so)

To each his own.

HAT

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  #12  
Old 17.10.2006, 16:04
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Re: North Korea Nuclear Club Membership

Hat, I think so far you've made a couple of points that I would accept. I wouldn't necessarily agree with them, but I'm only saying that some parts of your argument may have some merit.

However, in order for your arguments to be taken seriously by others it would really be a good idea to try to keep your argument a little more focused. Talking about moon-landing conspiracy theories and parents in the UK being locked up for spanking their children just makes you look a little crazy, and people may not be willing to listen to what you say, even if you make some good points.

In addition, by making such outrageous statements some people may not be able to help themselves and tell you that they think you are talking BS. Then the thread goes off topic - you are effectively inviting hijack of your own thread. Don't believe that Americans landed first on the moon? Then start a thread about it if you like, but the link to the North Korean situation on this thread is tenuous at best.

I think this thread does have the potential to become interesting, and since you started it you might like help it along. It would be a shame to see it crash and burn wouldn't it?
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Old 17.10.2006, 22:15
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Re: North Korea Nuclear Club Membership

I thought North Korea landed on the moon first?
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Old 17.10.2006, 22:54
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Re: North Korea Nuclear Club Membership

According to http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kim_(Korean_name)) 20% of North Koreans are called KIM - but only one is fat...
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Old 18.10.2006, 10:26
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Re: North Korea Nuclear Club Membership

Quote:
Hat, I think so far you've made a couple of points that I would accept. I wouldn't necessarily agree with them, but I'm only saying that some parts of your argument may have some merit.

However, in order for your arguments to be taken seriously by others it would really be a good idea to try to keep your argument a little more focused. Talking about moon-landing conspiracy theories and parents in the UK being locked up for spanking their children just makes you look a little crazy, and people may not be willing to listen to what you say, even if you make some good points.

In addition, by making such outrageous statements some people may not be able to help themselves and tell you that they think you are talking BS. Then the thread goes off topic - you are effectively inviting hijack of your own thread. Don't believe that Americans landed first on the moon? Then start a thread about it if you like, but the link to the North Korean situation on this thread is tenuous at best.

I think this thread does have the potential to become interesting, and since you started it you might like help it along. It would be a shame to see it crash and burn wouldn't it?
Dear Mark

How much of your post above, is related to NK, or Moon landing?
Would you like to focus on the topic or topics discussed?

This is the exact example, you are exercising your "right" to tick me off and steer me "back on track". Yes you are the founder and admin of this forum, so you do have that right, by right.

FYI, I like to talk BS online and offline (really no sarcasm), this is just my style.
I also does not dislike the thread to spin off (sometimes not in the way I like, but it gets interesting).

I also do not insist that I am taken seriously at some topics. Really I don't.

Again, if you so dislike my posts or my style, you can

1. Ignore me on buddy-list

2. Kick me out of forum for breaking rules (pick and choose the one you like)

3. Accept my way of writing, no matter how insane I sound sometimes.

4. Continue to write reply posts, on my style of writing, my going offthread, and therefore convincing others of the Mental Model YOU have of me, and suggesting to them sublimally that I am an idiot and I should be ignored and not taken seriously. (which I don't mind, but not every single post I make, you reply in same tone pls)

Thank you for reading.
There you go, we "wasted" 2 posts on totally offtopic ranting.

HAT
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  #16  
Old 18.10.2006, 10:38
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Re: North Korea Nuclear Club Membership

For the rest of the people out there,

Dear Mark has taken HIS liberty to remove my rights to EDIT or DELETE posts, (he said I cannot be trusted)
because he feels insulted by a PM I sent him, to explain how uncomfortable I am, for him to police my insane messages, and pointing out every single "Swiss" word I mentioned in my post.

From the culture and country I come from, we call this mixing up authority and user rights. Some call is ABSOLUTE POWER.

DEMOCRACY!
FREEDOM OF SPEECH!
POSTING RULES!
WOW!

I think my head is on the chopping block, and I may be banned from this forum soon. Thanks for the last 10 days. I am afraid I made too many people uncomfortable by my own style of writing.

This is not disimilar to the swiss-bashing posts here, and signs of xenophobia by the very people inside the forum.

HAT
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  #17  
Old 18.10.2006, 11:02
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Re: North Korea Nuclear Club Membership

WOW - talk about airing dirty laundry in public. I wasn't going to respond, and instead asked the moderator of this section to deal with you so that you couldn't accuse me of being "god", but she's presently in the real world right now, so I'll respond the in the meantime. Since you choose to bring in details from behaviour in other threads, as well as private correspondance then I feel compelled to inform other users that you have caused other forum members and the staff considerable irritation.

I removed your edit rights because you deleted posts in clear violation of a publically posted policy (and what most people would consider common sense). The posts you deleted were on a completely unrelated thread, and I never mentioned the matter in public since people just aren't interested in the soap opera that is the daily life of the mods on this forum. As I already pointed out to you - most forums do not allow edits or deletions of posts by users - it's not a right it's a privilidge. I trust our members to behave like adults.

It seems to me that you are trying to turn this incident into a self fulfiling prophecy - you'll continue until you do get banned, then you'll say "see, I told you so". If you go to a party and start behaving like an idiot and upsetting the guests and the host asks you to leave do you start complaining about abuse of power and "democracy"?

I apologise to all other readers of this now rather lame thread for having to listen to details which should normally dealt with in private, but such is the way things go sometimes on forums.

Hat - as I've said to you countless times before - I've cut you a lot of slack around here. Please stop derailing your own thread. If you continue with this kind of thing then you will be banned. Don't air your dirty laundry in public, people just aren't interested.
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Old 18.10.2006, 11:03
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Re: North Korea Nuclear Club Membership

HAT
You can still post, how's that not freedom of speech?
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Old 18.10.2006, 15:04
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Re: North Korea Nuclear Club Membership

Bummer - now i'll never know if NK landed on the moon first
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Old 18.10.2006, 16:26
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Re: North Korea Nuclear Club Membership

What a twit. Could have been an interesting discussion too.

I have issues with anyone having nuclear bombs. The fact of the matter is though, that the UK and US (and rest of the world) cannot seriously people not to go against NPT (Nuclear Proliferation Treaty) when they themselves are not following it.

In short the NPT is designed to stop any more nations having nuclear arms and to encourage those that do to disarm. One of the most important tenets is "no testing" (in theory stops new development). The UK and US are both considering renewing their arsenal which simply cannot be done [reliably] without some kind of testing, and clearly goes against the disarming principle.

One of the outcomes of the NPT was a global detection system for nuclear testing - ironically you might say the NK test has proved that at least some part of the NPT actually works
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