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  #101  
Old 24.07.2013, 14:05
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Re: Norweigan Woman Freed on her Conviction for reporting Rape

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and what if a man has sex with a married woman who is married to someone else? And, by the way, didn't I read somewhere that Dubai is full of Russian hookers?
I assume you mean if a married man has sex with another married woman?

If there was consent, they would both be treated as adulterers. The onus is on the accuser (whoever it may be) to provide proof that adultery took palce. Without the 4 pieces of evidence the neither can be punished (Misr knows more then me, however).

If there was no consent, it is treated as rape, and the fact that the woman is married is not relevant. In such a case, the offender would be charged as Misr describes above.

I would say the presence of prostitutes is no greater in Dubai then in most other cities of Dubai's magnitude.
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  #102  
Old 24.07.2013, 14:57
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Re: Norweigan Woman Freed on her Conviction for reporting Rape

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A judgement it may be, but it would be an ill-informed and flawed judgement - plenty of people would say the opposite, especially the expats who earn 4 times as much, doing half as much work, and who pay no tax..

See my additions.
You are obviously a person who enjoys flogging a dead horse?

And totally ignorant of history/geography?

SA is South Africa - it is a country - at the southern end of the African continent. Oh sorry, possibly you thought I meant South America? Or Southern Australia? Except South America has many countries in it. I`m not too sure about Southern Australia, except that southern would denote a region of the greater Australia, yes?

Entirely off topic here, but your ignorance of the extinction of the North American Buffalo needs clarrification, should you be wallowing in your great knowledge of world affairs - I shall enlighten you
The Buffalo were extinguished en-masse by WHITE hunters - not the American Indians. The Indians killed for survival and utilised every piece of the animal. The white hunters killed for the skins only.
(And look at how "advanced and civilized" America is today - they are also poisoning their water aquifers, altering their climate, and have "justice" mainly for the rich). The indigenous tribes are virtually wiped out.

Yes, some people did earn well in the Emirates. Why? Because their skills were needed. The locals are not skilled in agriculture. Their university degrees are not directed towards land/water sustainability - which is what the Emirates were requiring.
With the sinking man-made islands, drained water aquifers, loss of humidity from Mumbai (due to erection of the enormous concrete jungle) and poisoning of the Gulf sea by de-salination plants, tourism is not a priority high on travellers lists now. Followed by this latest tragedy, it`s a self-made fiasco.

Back on topic: I wrote what I know. If you choose to not believe what I have said, I have no time/inclination to seek out written confirmation to satisfy your pedantications. May you rest in ignorant peace.

Just admit that the Muslim extremist Sharia laws are archaic, draconian, and sexist. If women were not needed to bare children and do drudgework, I guess a land of men only could live happily there?
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  #103  
Old 24.07.2013, 15:01
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Re: Norweigan Woman Freed on her Conviction for reporting Rape

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SA is South Africa
No, SA is Saudi Arabia.

ZA is South Africa.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/.za

Tom
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  #104  
Old 24.07.2013, 15:05
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Re: Norweigan Woman Freed on her Conviction for reporting Rape

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I would say the presence of prostitutes is no greater in Dubai then in most other cities of Dubai's magnitude.
The prostitutes hang out in Bahrain, wherešall the luxury cars from Saudi and the Emirates head for at nights and on weekends - alcohol is more freely available there too, no only in tourist hotels, but in the strip joints and local bars. You should see the queus at the customs control! Almost as bad as Germany into Switzerland on Saturdays.
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  #105  
Old 24.07.2013, 15:12
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Re: Norweigan Woman Freed on her Conviction for reporting Rape

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No, SA is Saudi Arabia.

ZA is South Africa.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/.za

Tom
Oh a link!

Thank you. Now I know the correct abreviation of my country.
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  #106  
Old 24.07.2013, 15:16
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Re: Norweigan Woman Freed on her Conviction for reporting Rape

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The prostitutes hang out in Bahrain, wherešall the luxury cars from Saudi and the Emirates head for at nights and on weekends - alcohol is more freely available there too, no only in tourist hotels, but in the strip joints and local bars. You should see the queus at the customs control! Almost as bad as Germany into Switzerland on Saturdays.
so there is no Sharia law in Bahrain?
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  #107  
Old 24.07.2013, 15:21
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Re: Norweigan Woman Freed on her Conviction for reporting Rape

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Please allow me to clarify

Religion (Islam) doesn't prevent or help a rappist from not getting the punishment if proven to do this.

In Quraan it talked about the rappist without mentioning that this religion works and the other doesn't work.

Hereunder it did not mention any religion when it was talking about the punishment.

الزَّانِيَةُ وَالزَّانِي فَاجْلِدُوا كُلَّ وَاحِدٍ مِنْهُمَا مِائَةَ جَلْدَةٍ ۖ وَلَا تَأْخُذْكُمْ بِهِمَا رَأْفَةٌ فِي دِينِ اللَّهِ إِنْ كُنْتُمْ تُؤْمِنُونَ بِاللَّهِ وَالْيَوْمِ الْآخِرِ ۖ وَلْيَشْهَدْ عَذَابَهُمَا طَائِفَةٌ مِنَ الْمُؤْمِنِينَ
Hip Hop...so Old Skool it is even mentioned in the Quraan.
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  #108  
Old 24.07.2013, 15:45
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Re: Norweigan Woman Freed on her Conviction for reporting Rape

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Hip Hop...so Old Skool it is even mentioned in the Quraan.
is rap legal under Sharia law?
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  #109  
Old 24.07.2013, 15:55
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Re: Norweigan Woman Freed on her Conviction for reporting Rape

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You are obviously a person who enjoys flogging a dead horse?

And totally ignorant of history/geography?

SA is South Africa - it is a country - at the southern end of the African continent. Oh sorry, possibly you thought I meant South America? Or Southern Australia? Except South America has many countries in it. I`m not too sure about Southern Australia, except that southern would denote a region of the greater Australia, yes?

Entirely off topic here, but your ignorance of the extinction of the North American Buffalo needs clarrification, should you be wallowing in your great knowledge of world affairs - I shall enlighten you
The Buffalo were extinguished en-masse by WHITE hunters - not the American Indians. The Indians killed for survival and utilised every piece of the animal. The white hunters killed for the skins only.
(And look at how "advanced and civilized" America is today - they are also poisoning their water aquifers, altering their climate, and have "justice" mainly for the rich). The indigenous tribes are virtually wiped out.

Yes, some people did earn well in the Emirates. Why? Because their skills were needed. The locals are not skilled in agriculture. Their university degrees are not directed towards land/water sustainability - which is what the Emirates were requiring.
With the sinking man-made islands, drained water aquifers, loss of humidity from Mumbai (due to erection of the enormous concrete jungle) and poisoning of the Gulf sea by de-salination plants, tourism is not a priority high on travellers lists now. Followed by this latest tragedy, it`s a self-made fiasco.

Back on topic: I wrote what I know. If you choose to not believe what I have said, I have no time/inclination to seek out written confirmation to satisfy your pedantications. May you rest in ignorant peace.

Just admit that the Muslim extremist Sharia laws are archaic, draconian, and sexist. If women were not needed to bare children and do drudgework, I guess a land of men only could live happily there?

SA (especially when we're discussing the middle east), could very well mean Saudi Arabia, as somebody else has pointed out. Your attempt to come across as patronising has made you look the fool. I asked a valid question. You responded with attempted sarcasm with little knowledge of the subject matter.

In any case, South Africa does not follow sharia law, or have a legal system based on it. Why is it relevant here?

Your point about the buffalo is exactly what i said, just rehashed and represented. Thank you for supporting my argument, but you are supposed to be on the other side. The point about the buffalo came from the comment about the Indian Chief. Your comment, i believe. You cant deny that the american legal system has developed and evolved beyond recognition since the days of white men hunting buffalo. Similarly, in 500 years, the legal system in places like Dubai will also be unrecognisable, by todays standards. That was my point, which you still havent countered.

The big chunk in the middle is unrelated too...no one is denying it made them look bad, no one is denying they have bad environmental policies...whats your point?

Smoky, if you are going to come and make claims as serious as the one you made, such as claiming that mothers are prosecuted for murdering their own unborn children in an accident, on a public forum, you must have evidence. Otherwise they are no different to the ramblings of a sad man with a vendetta.

And once again, i never denied the laws are archaic, draconian and extreme. I never claimed to believe that those laws are virtuous. I simply said (with evidence) that this young norweigan girl did admit to breaking laws, and was punished accordingly, And that none of us here understand either their laws, or the facts behind this story well enough to assume anyone or anything is guilty.

Your arguments appear confused, mixed up, and contradictory. Your points backtrack, and it is clear you have a private vendetta against the whole of, or aspects of the Middle East, which you are projecting onto this story. As a result you are misreading the facts, and twisting the story to match said vendetta.
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  #110  
Old 24.07.2013, 16:02
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Re: Norweigan Woman Freed on her Conviction for reporting Rape

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so there is no Sharia law in Bahrain?

I believe they have some relation, but it is much more relaxed then places like Dubai and Abu Dhabi. Plus, their laws are based on their own constitution, which i believe, was written in 1973 but was amended significantly in 2002.
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  #111  
Old 24.07.2013, 16:04
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Re: Norweigan Woman Freed on her Conviction for reporting Rape

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The prostitutes hang out in Bahrain, wherešall the luxury cars from Saudi and the Emirates head for at nights and on weekends - alcohol is more freely available there too, no only in tourist hotels, but in the strip joints and local bars. You should see the queus at the customs control! Almost as bad as Germany into Switzerland on Saturdays.
strip joints in bahrain? are you sure? please can you name one?

most Saudis cross the border to drink which they can do legally and safely. the sex tourism aspect is over exaggerated as it is too dangerous for the average Saudi punter as they are well aware of the sex laws
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  #112  
Old 24.07.2013, 16:48
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Re: Norweigan Woman Freed on her Conviction for reporting Rape

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I believe that this is true, but I think this is not applied in muslim countries laws nowadays.

I think Islam deals with non-muslims like how EU countries deal with non EU citizens, they are respected, well treated, integrated if they accept to get integrated but mostly not trusted, this is my personal opinion not based on any studies.

I had read the link you mentioned and saw a lot of things that could be seen as positive other than this selected post and this gave me the impression that you may have something against islam - where you have all the freedom and respect for that.

I hope it is fine for you that I will not reply to coming posts that give the same impressions especially that this info you posted is not related to the discussion or my previous post.

If a muslim did a rape crime, he is considered a criminal not a witness and will be punished regardless of his religion.
Just to make it very clear: I absolutely am not against Islam. I do not have any more issues with it than I have with most other religions. I do have however some believes of my own which do not go well with Islamic law (not the religion!): I believe that every human should in front of the law be treated the same, regardless of gender, skin color, religion or whatever else. I am not saying that all humans are the same, but they should be treated fairly in front of the law. This means in essence that I am against any form of religious state as it will always be biased towards the people with the "right" religion, no matter which one it is. Of all legal systems does it happen to be the Islamic one which seems extremely unfair towards people of the wrong religion as well as women. This is very relevant to this case as it explains why the judge would believe the Muslim man more than the Norwegian woman.

I frankly find your comparison with EU law an insult to the European values - yes, a non-European might not enjoy the same treatment at a border crossing, but his word will not count a bit less than the one of an European in front of a judge. If you go to the cops and report a rape will you be treated the same, no matter if you are Muslim, Christian or a communist. Yes, that's something I value rather highly. You should as well - If you are a Muslim are you most likely an immigrant from a non-EU country. But as a foreigner are you treated exactly the same as a local in front of the law: You have the RIGHT to practice your religion - anyone you like - and you have the RIGHT to not get discriminated against you based on it. This is in essence the exact opposite of sharia.
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  #113  
Old 24.07.2013, 17:07
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Re: Norweigan Woman Freed on her Conviction for reporting Rape

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Just to make it very clear: I absolutely am not against Islam. I do not have any more issues with it than I have with most other religions. I do have however some believes of my own which do not go well with Islamic law (not the religion!): I believe that every human should in front of the law be treated the same, regardless of gender, skin color, religion or whatever else. I am not saying that all humans are the same, but they should be treated fairly in front of the law. This means in essence that I am against any form of religious state as it will always be biased towards the people with the "right" religion, no matter which one it is. Of all legal systems does it happen to be the Islamic one which seems extremely unfair towards people of the wrong religion as well as women. This is very relevant to this case as it explains why the judge would believe the Muslim man more than the Norwegian woman.

I frankly find your comparison with EU law an insult to the European values - yes, a non-European might not enjoy the same treatment at a border crossing, but his word will not count a bit less than the one of an European in front of a judge. If you go to the cops and report a rape will you be treated the same, no matter if you are Muslim, Christian or a communist. Yes, that's something I value rather highly. You should as well - If you are a Muslim are you most likely an immigrant from a non-EU country. But as a foreigner are you treated exactly the same as a local in front of the law: You have the RIGHT to practice your religion - anyone you like - and you have the RIGHT to not get discriminated against you based on it. This is in essence the exact opposite of sharia.
Again, you ignore the fact that in this case, religion was not taken into account. You have still yet to prove that he was muslim and that this aided him in getting a soft sentence. In this case, everyone was treated the same, without religion playing any significant part.

'If you are a muslim you are most likely an immigrant from a non EU country'. You read the daily mail, dont you?
Most young muslims in the UK (who themselves make up the majority of muslims in the UK) were born there. Not immigrants, but born on UK soil, as UK citizens.

And, once again, you make a claim about sharia law, based on a single interpretation of it, and without taking into account that in all modern interpretations of it, religion is not taken into account. If it had been, then by your own statements above, this case would never have led to the man being charged. Since both were charged, her testimony was believed, despite her not being a muslim. This directly contradicts your point about Dubai not giving her word any credence or weight.

It is no secret that certain foreigners, especially those of an eastern european heritage, are considered by many in Switzerland and further across the EU to be untrustworthy. I was introduced to the term 'yugo' by one of the apprentices where i work. Its an insulting term, used to describe somebody who appears to be from the balkan regions. It is, to Switzerlands shame, quite common. Politicians have made it popular to assume a country's ills are caused by people looking for a better life, even more so when they look different. Coming back to what Misr said, a white man in Dubai will be looked at in a very similar way to an albanian male here. There will not be outright hatred, nor will there be brazen hostility. but there will be some distrust bubbling under the surface.

Last edited by J2488; 24.07.2013 at 17:35.
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  #114  
Old 24.07.2013, 17:10
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Re: Norweigan Woman Freed on her Conviction for reporting Rape

sharia isn't monolithic, there are different interpretations of it and it is applied differently in most Muslim countries:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Applica...ria_by_country
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  #115  
Old 19.08.2016, 14:15
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Re: Norweigan Woman Freed on her Conviction for reporting Rape

Dubai proving once again what an utter shit hole it is.

Man faces jail term in Dubai for Facebook link to charity
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  #116  
Old 19.08.2016, 14:39
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Re: Norweigan Woman Freed on her Conviction for reporting Rape

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Oh, no doubt. Im not doubting the ridiculousness of the law that made her a criminal. Just noting people reactions.

I do wonder though, if an emirati was on this forum and said 'well, those are our laws. They've been around for generations...if you dont like it, leave the UAE' how many groans they'd get?
except that would never ever happen.
the locals can barely read, much less run their country by themselves.
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Old 19.08.2016, 14:51
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Re: Norweigan Woman Freed on her Conviction for reporting Rape

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Dubai proving once again what an utter shit hole it is.

Man faces jail term in Dubai for Facebook link to charity
I feel sorry for them but usually "ignorantia legis neminem excusat".
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  #118  
Old 19.08.2016, 15:30
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Re: Norweigan Woman Freed on her Conviction for reporting Rape

Did I write something wrong? Why groan ?
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Old 19.08.2016, 15:33
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Re: Norweigan Woman Freed on her Conviction for reporting Rape

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Did I write something wrong? Why groan ?
Maybe it's because you quoted a Latin phrase, and most of us can't understand it?

(Even though I have got an 'O' Level in Latin. )
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Old 19.08.2016, 15:37
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Re: Norweigan Woman Freed on her Conviction for reporting Rape

Oh, I apologize. Here's the first link from a Google search:
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Igno...is_non_excusat
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