Michael Schumacher 'Seriously Injured' - Page 4

jacek · #61 01.01.2014, 14:59

	Quote:	Patxi
	That place looks as flat as a meadow. As long as there is nothing above that I can't see, I would say that place would be good to go even in level 4. Although I agree that a few snowfalls with some consolidation in between would be the best scenario, one could easily keep it in check to ski through that rocky zone with nothing more than a coreshot. It sounds like he was going a bit too fast for the conditions. A blanket statement of saying that it is hazardous to ski through a zone like that regardless of the snow level is nonsense. If that was the case, around here in Engelberg, one would never venture off piste if they saw the slopes in the summer. Huge rock fields, cliff bands, crevasses, etc.,.. that are completely covered after a few normal snowfalls are the norm here. Unfortunately, the snow levels aren't quite ready for charging off piste yet.

Meadow flat areas like the one above are often underestimated and people tend to traverse them at great speeds coming down from onpiste. Those treacherous alleys hide underneath sharp rocks and outcrops. I had nasty surprises on several occasions doing this kind of stuff. Awefully chiseled my planks once on the rough stones under. Some other time on impact with the rock concealed under, have been launched few meters ahead. One time hit crust which were supposed to be a powder and ploughed flat on.

I can only imagine that Schumacher being an avid skier used to beyond-average speeds, might have misjudged treacherous nature of apparently safely looking terrain.

People like doing crazy sh.. and most of the time it is fine, but sometimes there are situations that things can go wrong. Ever heard of minesweepers risk?

Deep Purple · #62 01.01.2014, 15:22

Apparently, he wasn't skiing fast and was going to help a friend who had fallen

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/sport/for...-accident.html

fatmanfilms · #63 01.01.2014, 17:36

	Quote:	Patxi
	That place looks as flat as a meadow. As long as there is nothing above that I can't see, I would say that place would be good to go even in level 4. Although I agree that a few snowfalls with some consolidation in between would be the best scenario, one could easily keep it in check to ski through that rocky zone with nothing more than a coreshot. It sounds like he was going a bit too fast for the conditions. A blanket statement of saying that it is hazardous to ski through a zone like that regardless of the snow level is nonsense. If that was the case, around here in Engelberg, one would never venture off piste if they saw the slopes in the summer. Huge rock fields, cliff bands, crevasses, etc.,.. that are completely covered after a few normal snowfalls are the norm here. Unfortunately, the snow levels aren't quite ready for charging off piste yet.

With a meter of fresh snow you would not move in that area.......
If that area was a piste it would be closed right now, so an unfortunate judgement call because its so close to the piste. Still off piste and if he followed a friend, the friend could be criminally responsible in Switzerland, no issue in France.

Ramtin[e] · #64 01.01.2014, 18:06

	Quote:	fatmanfilms
	could be criminally responsible in Switzerland, no issue in France.

Well the French Gendarmerie in Albertville is currently investigating the circumstances of the accident... Affaire à suivre...

Pictures courtesy of Daily Mail

The engineers at this ski resort should redesign this area. Very weired to have an off-piste in the middle of two pistes...

#65 01.01.2014, 18:21

There should indeed have been an orange barrier across the top, and a danger sign, that's for sure. Mind you, this is not what I think off when 'off piste' is mentioned, really. At speed, on the piste- coming from shadow to sun -they just would not have noticed that part of the slope with the rocks until it was too late- and it is totally in the natural fall line which I would have chosen. The resort lawyers should be a lot more worried than his companion.

Ramtin[e] · #66 01.01.2014, 18:34

	Quote:
	There should indeed have been an orange barrier across the top, and a danger sign, that's for sure. Mind you, this is not what I think off when 'off piste' is mentioned, really. At speed, on the piste- they just would not have noticed that part of the slop with the rocks until it was too late. The resort lawyers should be a lot more worried than his companion.

You are 100% right!

The way the reports described he was skiing off piste, I imagined he was really off piste, somewhere like this [see link], far from any authorized pistes.

Actually I typed my previous text before seeing and then posting the pictures.

fatmanfilms · #67 01.01.2014, 18:48

	Quote:	Ramtin[e]
	You are 100% right! The way the reports described he was skiing off piste, I imagined he was really off piste, somewhere like this [see link], far from any authorized pistes. Actually I typed my previous text before seeing and then posting the pictures.

I think your link shows a safer place to ski TBH, I don't think it's very far from a piste either, it's clearly had a huge amount of traffic on it.

The piste is clearly marked with markers each side, the weather was clear & assuming you believe the reports he was not going very fast he clearly knew he was skiing off piste at the time of the accident. The helmet splitting implies it was not a low speed accident.

Wollishofener · #68 02.01.2014, 03:13

	Quote:	Deep Purple
	Apparently, he wasn't skiing fast and was going to help a friend who had fallen http://www.dailymail.co.uk/sport/for...-accident.html

As he was skiing with the speed my brother did I can well imagine how that looked. You get engolfed by a storm of snow and then somebody to your right will ask "do you need some help ? " If then the rescuer hits an obstacle, the trouble starts.

YES, this would fit. In German it would be *Dumm gelaufen", had the matter not ended so badly. Again, the route looks to be very good.

The reports are contradictory. Some say that he fell on a stone what I doubt, while others say that he fell and was "rejected" by a hidden obstacle and THEN hit a stone

************************************************** **************************

Affaire à suivre...

THIS indeed is the update I was looking for

Assassin · #69 03.01.2014, 17:09

	Quote:	fatmanfilms
	I was working on Lady Diana's obituary in 1981, when she was 20, before she married Prince Charles. This was for the BBC, they update every year and have a completed film ready to run, they just need to add the final details. As motor racing is a dangerous sport, there will be obituaries prepared for many participants. I remember being told about 19% of 25 year olds don't live to 65 .

Motor racing with a drunken driver in Paris gets you to just a bit beyond 35, but not by much.

cannut · #70 03.01.2014, 17:18

	Quote:	Wollishofener
	As he was skiing with the speed my brother did I can well imagine how that looked. You get engolfed by a storm of snow and then somebody to your right will ask "do you need some help ? " If then the rescuer hits an obstacle, the trouble starts. YES, this would fit. In German it would be Dumm gelaufen", had the matter not ended so badly. Again, the route looks to be very good. The reports are contradictory. Some say that he fell on a stone what I doubt, while others say that he fell and was "rejected" by a hidden obstacle and THEN hit a stone *********************************************** ************************ Affaire à suivre... THIS indeed is the update I was looking for

Any damages to the boulders ?

Wollishofener · #71 03.01.2014, 23:37

	Quote:	cannut
	Any damages to the boulders ?

The coming week will tell how the matter develops. Whether uphill or downhill

jacek · #72 04.01.2014, 00:43

	Quote:	Wollishofener
	The coming week will tell how the matter develops. Whether uphill or downhill

As long as the condition of accident victim's who is fighting for his life in coma is not improved, any joking aside - it is just plainly tasteless.

Meanwhile, Schumacher's family have said they were "utterly overwhelmed" and "moved to tears" by fans' silent vigil to mark the Formula One legend's 45th birthday.

http://news.sky.com/story/1189678/sc...being-examined

mirfield · #73 04.01.2014, 01:58

It seems they tried to bring him out of a coma earlier today (well, yesterday) and he failed to start breathing for himself. That doesn't sound good at all.

Wollishofener · #74 05.01.2014, 09:55

	Quote:	jacek
	As long as the condition of accident victim's who is fighting for his life in coma is not improved, any joking aside - it is just plainly tasteless. Meanwhile, Schumacher's family have said they were "utterly overwhelmed" and "moved to tears" by fans' silent vigil to mark the Formula One legend's 45th birthday. http://news.sky.com/story/1189678/sc...being-examined

I also since the accident did not see any base for jokes, quite to the contrary

Even the medical brigade coming up in impressive number cannot change my impression

http://news.sky.com/story/1189678/sc...being-examined[/QUOTE]

It reminds me of the fate or Rico T., one of my best schoolfriends who at age 9 gut under a truck. During two weeks (our teacher each morning first went to hospital), the doctors signalled hope, but then one morning, she arrived from hospital shaken and frustrated and had to advise us that it would be better if Rico "could go". It lasted another 10 days until he finally died. Me and some firends for roughly 20 years (in schooltime each Wednesday afternoon) almost weekly went up to the cimetery. None of us ever forgot

Sure, medical science in the past 5 decades made lots of progress, but it still does not look good

#75 05.01.2014, 10:01

	Quote:	mirfield
	It seems they tried to bring him out of a coma earlier today (well, yesterday) and he failed to start breathing for himself. That doesn't sound good at all.

But hopefully it can be taken with a pinch of salt because:

	Quote:
	A statement from Sabine Kehm said reports not from managers or doctors "must be treated as pure speculation".

And

	Quote:
	The management statement concluded by saying: "In consultation with the doctors treating Michael, it is not expected that there will be any press conference before Monday.

From the Beeb.

Wollishofener · #76 05.01.2014, 10:30

	Quote:
	But hopefully it can be taken with a pinch of salt because: And From the Beeb.

I particulary take positive and re-assuring words of doctors with a spoon of salt

#77 05.01.2014, 10:46

	Quote:	Wollishofener
	I particulary take positive and re-assuring words of doctors with a spoon of salt

But I'm guessing in this case the family and management are just trying to minimise wild speculation, which is probably like trying to knit fog but, hey.

Wollishofener · #78 05.01.2014, 22:50

	Quote:
	But I'm guessing in this case the family and management are just trying to minimise wild speculation, which is probably like trying to knit fog but, hey.

You may be right, you may be wrong. He of couse still has or may have some chance. But am not optimistic at all.

Deep Purple · #79 05.01.2014, 23:53

Indications are that he was skiing at no more than 12mph (20 kph)

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worl...-accident.html

Wollishofener · #80 06.01.2014, 01:33

	Quote:	Deep Purple
	Indications are that he was skiing at no more than 12mph (20 kph) http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worl...-accident.html

This I do not believe. When you are skiing slowly you are enroute with some 30 kms. I still remember. A friend and me had been skiing in the afternoon before. Next morning our ski-instructor took notes and did some calculations and then told us that we had been enroute with by average some 35 to 45 kms and so clearly with maximum speeds of some 50 to 60 kms. We were astonished but he calmly said "this is not sensational" but perfectly normal. And that was back in the 60ies.

To say it clearly, nobody is skiing with less than 25 km/h