 | | | 
11.02.2022, 21:43
| Senior Member | | Join Date: Apr 2015 Location: Zürich
Posts: 425
Groaned at 30 Times in 22 Posts
Thanked 395 Times in 210 Posts
| | Re: World War 3 or just a local spat in Ukraine? | Quote: | |  | | | | | | | | Its seemingly small details like that which can be most telling.
Israel has started evacuated diplomatic families from Kiev.
I`d say time for a non military solution is getting very short.
| 
11.02.2022, 21:50
|  | Forum Legend | | Join Date: Jan 2008 Location: SZ
Posts: 4,089
Groaned at 399 Times in 285 Posts
Thanked 8,789 Times in 3,757 Posts
| | Re: World War 3 or just a local spat in Ukraine?
By now, I cannot see an outcome without at least an invasion of Eastern Ukraine. Vova needs to keep face and Lavrov has doubled down that all the West has offered is "excuses".
| This user would like to thank komsomolez for this useful post: | | 
11.02.2022, 22:04
|  | Forum Legend | | Join Date: Dec 2010 Location: Lugano
Posts: 33,511
Groaned at 2,862 Times in 2,005 Posts
Thanked 40,802 Times in 19,269 Posts
| | Re: WWIII not again! | Quote: | |  | | | In that case it´s back to leaves again, just don´t use nettles. | | | | | Or use the bidet.
Tom
| 
11.02.2022, 23:14
| Forum Legend | | Join Date: Jul 2020 Location: Up there over the fog
Posts: 4,757
Groaned at 705 Times in 477 Posts
Thanked 4,708 Times in 2,488 Posts
| | Re: WWIII not again!
Well, go on making jokes.
Many of us, with chidren, grandchildren and parents living a long way from here- and in regions which are likely to be strongly affected if it all kicks off, just don't find the situation funny ... at all.
| This user groans at JackieH for this post: | | 
11.02.2022, 23:23
|  | Forum Legend | | Join Date: Dec 2010 Location: Lugano
Posts: 33,511
Groaned at 2,862 Times in 2,005 Posts
Thanked 40,802 Times in 19,269 Posts
| | Re: WWIII not again!
It IS a joke.
Tome
| The following 2 users groan at st2lemans for this post: | | 
11.02.2022, 23:32
| Forum Veteran | | Join Date: Jan 2014 Location: Zurich
Posts: 588
Groaned at 103 Times in 74 Posts
Thanked 1,583 Times in 823 Posts
| | Re: WWIII not again! | Quote: | |  | | | Well, go on making jokes.
Many of us, with chidren, grandchildren and parents living a long way from here- and in regions which are likely to be strongly affected if it all kicks off, just don't find the situation funny ... at all. | | | | | So far it's been a phoney war of 'jaw, jaw' & politicians queuing up to do their churchillian speeches
& round trips to Kyiv & Moscow, hopefully it remains that way.
| This user would like to thank John William for this useful post: | | 
11.02.2022, 23:38
| Forum Legend | | Join Date: Jul 2020 Location: Up there over the fog
Posts: 4,757
Groaned at 705 Times in 477 Posts
Thanked 4,708 Times in 2,488 Posts
| | Re: WWIII not again!
Hopefully
both BBC News and ITV have mentionned several times that an imminent invasion of Ukraine is likely any day now. So,, hopefully.
But as a mum and a gran- with my loved one a long way away- I find this all very very upsetting.
Laugh, Tom, laugh at me, if it makes you feel big and better. FO!
| This user groans at JackieH for this post: | | 
12.02.2022, 07:10
|  | Forum Legend | | Join Date: Dec 2010 Location: Lugano
Posts: 33,511
Groaned at 2,862 Times in 2,005 Posts
Thanked 40,802 Times in 19,269 Posts
| | Re: WWIII not again! | Quote: | |  | | | as a mum and a gran- with my loved one a long way away- I find this all very very upsetting! | | | | | You have family in Ukraine/Russia?
Tom
| 
12.02.2022, 08:09
| Forum Legend | | Join Date: Feb 2010 Location: Kt.Zh
Posts: 12,161
Groaned at 487 Times in 402 Posts
Thanked 19,062 Times in 9,645 Posts
| | Re: WWIII not again! | Quote: | |  | | | You have family in Ukraine/Russia? 
Tom | | | | | I suppose she meant those who do have, and believe it or not there are people on EF who have families in Ukraine....or Russia.
People can still joke on this issue....for the moment.
| This user would like to thank greenmount for this useful post: | | 
12.02.2022, 08:10
|  | Modulo 2 | | Join Date: Oct 2008 Location: Baselland
Posts: 16,197
Groaned at 348 Times in 301 Posts
Thanked 25,602 Times in 10,425 Posts
| | Re: WWIII not again! | Quote: | |  | | | @mods - could you merge this with the other one? One WWIII is enough. | | | | | One is too many, surely.
| 
12.02.2022, 08:11
|  | Forum Veteran | | Join Date: Oct 2011 Location: BL
Posts: 1,282
Groaned at 235 Times in 170 Posts
Thanked 4,609 Times in 1,743 Posts
| | Re: World War 3 or just a local spat in Ukraine? | Quote: | |  | | | By now, I cannot see an outcome without at least an invasion of Eastern Ukraine. Vova needs to keep face and Lavrov has doubled down that all the West has offered is "excuses". | | | | | I also tend to believe that there's too much troops just for a show-off and the stakes have been raised quite high by the Russians themselves to just sit idly there.
HOWEVER
If you look at practically all conflicts Russia has been in, with neighbors and in the middle east, it was never a full blown invasion, but rather calculated, tactical incursions. This is why I believe the maximum they will do this time is an incursion in Donbas. Having said that, the more I think about it, this also doesn't make much sense as Russia also has a significant amount of pro-Russian separatists there which it supports and provides equipment to. Invading Donbas doesn't really provide any additional political or military leverage.
MAYBE the objective of Putin is already achieved? Maybe his point is to further weaken Ukraine (done) and stress to NATO that Ukraine as a NATO member will bring only trouble (done).
| 
12.02.2022, 08:14
|  | Forum Legend | | Join Date: Jan 2008 Location: SZ
Posts: 4,089
Groaned at 399 Times in 285 Posts
Thanked 8,789 Times in 3,757 Posts
| | Re: World War 3 or just a local spat in Ukraine? | Quote: | |  | | |
MAYBE the objective of Putin is already achieved? Maybe his point is to further weaken Ukraine (done) and stress to NATO that Ukraine as a NATO member will bring only trouble (done).
| | | | | I doubt this. Allowing Ukraine into NATO has been off the cards since 2014.
| This user would like to thank komsomolez for this useful post: | | 
12.02.2022, 08:24
|  | Forum Veteran | | Join Date: Oct 2011 Location: BL
Posts: 1,282
Groaned at 235 Times in 170 Posts
Thanked 4,609 Times in 1,743 Posts
| | Re: World War 3 or just a local spat in Ukraine? | Quote: | |  | | | I doubt this. Allowing Ukraine into NATO has been off the cards since 2014. | | | | | My point is that from a cost-benefit approach, his cost of keeping the pressure on Ukraine is lower than the cost to Ukraine itself and as long as that calculus is true, there's probably no reason to change the approach.
In the end, this is what he wants - everyone guessing what's his true intent and next move. I just start to see the possibility that he won't invade.
| This user would like to thank gaburko for this useful post: | | 
12.02.2022, 08:29
|  | Forum Legend | | Join Date: Jan 2008 Location: SZ
Posts: 4,089
Groaned at 399 Times in 285 Posts
Thanked 8,789 Times in 3,757 Posts
| | Re: WWIII not again! | Quote: | |  | | | One is too many, surely. | | | | | So will you merge them, or are you just making smart comments?
| 
12.02.2022, 08:44
|  | Modulo 2 | | Join Date: Oct 2008 Location: Baselland
Posts: 16,197
Groaned at 348 Times in 301 Posts
Thanked 25,602 Times in 10,425 Posts
| | Re: WWIII not again! | Quote: | |  | | | So will you merge them, or are you just making smart comments? | | | | | No need to be snarky. It was serious. And I thought I might have a coffee first. Sorry I wasn't quick enough for you. Threads merged.
| This user would like to thank NotAllThere for this useful post: | | 
12.02.2022, 08:50
| Forum Veteran | | Join Date: Sep 2021 Location: Geneva
Posts: 1,905
Groaned at 240 Times in 161 Posts
Thanked 2,323 Times in 1,114 Posts
| | Re: WWIII not again! | Quote: | |  | | | It IS a joke.
Tome | | | | |
You had a drink tonight Tom...e !!!!!
| This user would like to thank Biro for this useful post: | | 
12.02.2022, 08:52
|  | Forum Legend | | Join Date: Dec 2010 Location: Lugano
Posts: 33,511
Groaned at 2,862 Times in 2,005 Posts
Thanked 40,802 Times in 19,269 Posts
| | Re: WWIII not again! | Quote: | |  | | | You had a drink tonight Tom...e !!!!! | | | | | No, this morning.
Tom
| The following 2 users would like to thank st2lemans for this useful post: | | 
12.02.2022, 08:57
|  | Forum Legend | | Join Date: Jan 2008 Location: SZ
Posts: 4,089
Groaned at 399 Times in 285 Posts
Thanked 8,789 Times in 3,757 Posts
| | Re: World War 3 or just a local spat in Ukraine?
Remember Col. Vindman? He published a piece in Foreign Affairs on possible scenarios and responses. Quite a long read and one might not agree, but I found it interesting. https://www.foreignaffairs.com/artic...russia-attacks | 
12.02.2022, 09:05
|  | Forum Legend | | Join Date: Jan 2008 Location: SZ
Posts: 4,089
Groaned at 399 Times in 285 Posts
Thanked 8,789 Times in 3,757 Posts
| | Re: World War 3 or just a local spat in Ukraine?
And NZZ on how Russian media portrays this (in German, and might be paywall). In a nutshell, not surprisingly the story is spun that the West has pumped up Ukraine with weapons, intoxicated the Ukrainians with anti-Russia ideology and is pushing Ukraine into attacking Russia/Russians.
Who would have thought? https://www.nzz.ch/international/rus...ikt-ld.1668921 | This user would like to thank komsomolez for this useful post: | | 
12.02.2022, 10:07
|  | Forum Legend | | Join Date: May 2008 Location: Kt. Zürich
Posts: 12,378
Groaned at 721 Times in 605 Posts
Thanked 24,084 Times in 12,610 Posts
| | Re: World War 3 or just a local spat in Ukraine? Straw in the wind?
"Putin's superyacht abruptly left Germany amid sanction warnings over Russia-Ukraine tensions, report says. Vladimir Putin's yacht Graceful left Hamburg before finishing repairs, German media reported."
There will only be sanctions if Russia does attack Ukraine.
|
Currently Active Users Viewing This Thread: 3 (1 members and 2 guests) | Excad | Thread Tools | | Display Modes | Linear Mode |
Posting Rules
| You may not post new threads You may not post replies You may not post attachments You may not edit your posts HTML code is Off | | | All times are GMT +2. The time now is 08:13. | |