English Forum Switzerland

English Forum Switzerland (https://www.englishforum.ch/forum.php)
-   International affairs/politics (https://www.englishforum.ch/international-affairs-politics/)
-   -   World War 3 or just a local spat in Ukraine? (https://www.englishforum.ch/international-affairs-politics/202409-world-war-3-just-local-spat-ukraine.html)

Wollishofener 19.03.2014 09:27

Re: World War 3 or just a local spat in Ukraine?
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by greenmount (Post 2113907)
Who's the Habsburg in this game? It's becoming freaking scary...:eek:
:p


Closest to Habsburg Castle is Sumiswald, the old home of the BURKHALTER family, and Didier Burkhalter is president of the OECD. So that SWITZERLAND is, in close conjunction with the friends in Austria, the HABSBURG of now :D

Mrs Merkel orginates from Sachsen, the northern neighbour to BOHEMIA, the northernmost area of Austria-Hungary .... you may have noticed that she delegated Foreign Minister Steinmeier to Bern and Wien recently for talks about the Krim etc

greenmount 19.03.2014 09:29

Re: World War 3 or just a local spat in Ukraine?
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Reb77Br (Post 2113759)
It sounds as if the situation may be being escalated deliberately.

Putin's move on Crimea bolsters popularity back home

Quote:

In the past, Putin cared quite a bit about what Western leaders thought of him, but he has since become more indifferent. "The Crimea decision was a chance to show that Russia can take decisive action internationally, and to teach America a lesson that it has its own interests that it is willing to defend," Makarkin said. "There were two aims: maintaining Russia's sphere of interest and self-assertion."

Because of the Crimea dispute, Russia's membership in the G8 was suspended, and Europe and the United States imposed travel bans and asset freezes on a number of Russian politicians. The sanctions were not taken particularly seriously by Russian politicians.

Presidential aide Vladislav Surkov, a formerly powerful ideologue under Putin, laughed off the sanctions imposed on him.

"I see the decision of the Washington administration as a recognition of my accomplishments for Russia. It's an honor for me," Surkov told the Moskovsky Komsomolets daily newspaper. "I don't have foreign accounts. In the United States I'm interested (in rapper) Tupac Shakur, (poet) Allen Ginsberg and (painter) Jackson Pollock. I don't need a visa to access their work, so I'm not losing anything."

Putin, according to Makarkin, is reflecting the will of a large part of the government elite.

"Someone is afraid of sanctions. But others see Russia's greatness as standing above everything else," Makarkin said. "Putin was supported by elites in the (law enforcement and security structures), while everyone else just went along with him."
Great....

So, we have Violet Elizabeth Bott, we have a Iosif Vissarionovici and a clown called Cameron to play Winston Churchill.
Why the heck don't they meet in a good, "gents"-like style, split again the world and we're done with all this masquerade ....

marton 19.03.2014 09:56

Re: World War 3 or just a local spat in Ukraine?
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Faltrad (Post 2113865)
allegedly. By the way, he said the contrary yesterday. Not allegedly, in public. Contrary to western newspaper readers, Putin knows that a Russian speaking Ukrainian is still a Ukrainian. Language, nationality and citizenship and three different concepts in the ex-soviet world.

As for the Tatars, they are no less safe as any other Tatar anywhere else in Russia… and plenty other minorities of all kinds. Propaganda needs to portray the bad guy as a kind of nazi, so they need a kind of jew. Fantasy does most of the work, it's propaganda, remember?

About "he said the contrary yesterday. Not allegedly, in public." This will be the same Putin who said in public "There is no Russian military in Crimea, only local militias"?

Quote:

Originally Posted by Wollishofener (Post 2113836)
Looks as if the Czar and the Sultan are making their points. Erdogan of couse can see that with taking the Crimea, Russia is improving its position towards the South in a big way. And wanted to tell Putin not to mess with Turkey. The Turkish armed forces with only some 3 million men under weapons may be much smaller than Russia, but the Russians of course know that the Turkish army of now is not the Osman army of Sultan Abdel Hamid II . And the Russans of course know that nobody in Turkey wants to conquer Russia so that a new version of the Molotov-Ribbentrop pact might be a nice option.

About "Turkish armed forces with only some 3 million men under weapons" Turkey is in NATO and in the event of any military action the West might prefer to fight not too close to home?

marton 19.03.2014 10:05

Re: World War 3 or just a local spat in Ukraine?
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by leonie (Post 2113898)
Take a look at what happened recently. Welcome to the new and democratic Ukraine.


"The head of the National Television Company of Ukraine (NTU) has been beaten by members of the nationalist Svoboda party and forced to write a letter of resignation over allegations that his channel aired anti-Ukrainian content.
.....
NTU is state-run and operates the nation’s largest public broadcaster, Pershyi Natsionalnyi.

Svoboda (Freedom) party members yelled at the interim CEO and beat him in the face, accusing the channel of a lack of nationalism and forcefully demanding his resignation.
......

“As of 11:00 GMT, March 11th, 50 percent of providers throughout Ukraine have disabled broadcasting of foreign channels” and others are preparing to follow, the National Television and Radio Broadcasting Council of Ukraine said on its website.

This was not the first time that nationalist radicals coerced individuals to sign resignation letters by using violence and threats. Far-right radicals wearing masks stormed a city council meeting last week, armed with bats and hammers."

http://www.rt.com/news/ukraine-force...tionalism-674/

Indeed, and in the new Crimea
A group of heavily-armed suspected Russian soldiers in ski masks on Tuesday stormed the Bogdan Avto-Salon, a Hyundai and Subaru dealership in Simferopol.

This is just one of the choice assets now being taken over by the Russians.

leonie 19.03.2014 10:26

Re: World War 3 or just a local spat in Ukraine?
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by marton (Post 2113950)
Indeed, and in the new Crimea
A group of heavily-armed suspected Russian soldiers in ski masks on Tuesday stormed the Bogdan Avto-Salon, a Hyundai and Subaru dealership in Simferopol.

This is just one of the choice assets now being taken over by the Russians.

Would you please post a link to the news source about this?

Guest 19.03.2014 11:12

Re: World War 3 or just a local spat in Ukraine?
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by greenmount (Post 2113919)
Why the heck don't they meet in a good, "gents"-like style, split again the world and we're done with all this masquerade ....

The world is already split up. The world just doesn't know it yet... ;)

greenmount 19.03.2014 11:15

Re: World War 3 or just a local spat in Ukraine?
 
Quote:

The world is already split up. The world just doesn't know it yet... ;)
...so, so true.

esto 19.03.2014 11:28

Re: World War 3 or just a local spat in Ukraine?
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Faltrad (Post 2113865)
allegedly. By the way, he said the contrary yesterday. Not allegedly, in public. Contrary to western newspaper readers, Putin knows that a Russian speaking Ukrainian is still a Ukrainian. Language, nationality and citizenship and three different concepts in the ex-soviet world.

Is that the same Putin who is still saying in public that the thousands of soldiers in Russian uniforms in Crimea, driving trucks with Russian military plates, flying in Russian military helicopters are in fact not Russian soldiers?

Like any dictator, I have trouble accepting his words at face value. I'm sure if in the next few days some "incident" should happen in Eastern Ukraine, Putin could easily announce that he "regrets" the need to send Russian troops there to protect ethnic Russians, that it was "never his intention, but under the circumstances..." :rolleyes:

esto 19.03.2014 11:32

Re: World War 3 or just a local spat in Ukraine?
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by leonie (Post 2113970)
Would you please post a link to the news source about this?

Sure:

Quote:

A group of heavily-armed suspected Russian soldiers in ski masks on Tuesday stormed the Bogdan Avto-Salon, a Hyundai and Subaru dealership in a quiet suburb of the city, taking control of its offices and salesrooms. The men, who later stood guard along the salon’s perimeter fence, refused to identify themselves to reporters and waved them away with guns.

“It’s clear there’s going to be a new carve-up of property here now that the Russians are here,” said Arzy Selimova, an editor at state TV station Krym. Local businessmen have noted that the dealership targeted in Tuesday’s raid was owned by a partner of Petro Poroshenko, the Ukrainian oligarch, who backs the new government in Kiev.
http://www.ft.com/intl/cms/s/0/66a08...#axzz2wOpEBuji

I'm so glad Russia saved Crimea from bat-weilding fascist thugs :rolleyes:

...by the way, what happens now to the Ukrainian people in Crimea? Those who were born in Ukraine, lived in Ukraine all their life, have a Ukranian passport, and now suddenly within a couple of weeks, now find themselves in a foreign land? Who will protect these minorities now? Will Ukrainian be an official language there? Can they keep their Ukrainian passports? Will they be attacked or intimidated if they refuse?

greenmount 19.03.2014 11:45

Re: World War 3 or just a local spat in Ukraine?
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by esto (Post 2114031)
...by the way, what happens now to the Ukrainian people in Crimea?
....................
Who will protect these minorities now? Will Ukrainian be an official language there? Can they keep their Ukrainian passports? Will they be attacked or intimidated if they refuse?

It's all in the book: like in any ethnic enclave, "minority" will have their lives made miserable, so they will voluntarily leave. :D

But anyhow, let's hope there will be peace over there.

Guest 19.03.2014 11:58

Re: World War 3 or just a local spat in Ukraine?
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by greenmount (Post 2114040)
It's all in the book: like in any ethnic enclave, "minority" will have their lives made miserable, so they will voluntarily leave. :D

... and open chip shops in North London.

Oh, hang on... wrong invasion/minority... :msnblush:

greenmount 19.03.2014 12:05

Re: World War 3 or just a local spat in Ukraine?
 
Quote:

... and open chip shops in North London.

....who wouldn't want to live in North London? :D

http://static.guim.co.uk/sys-images/...London-007.jpg

http://grandgenetalia.files.wordpres...pg?w=450&h=274

leonie 19.03.2014 12:11

Re: World War 3 or just a local spat in Ukraine?
 
Quote:

The world is already split up. The world just doesn't know it yet... ;)
The first half of the world doesn't know it yet :)

esto 19.03.2014 12:11

Re: World War 3 or just a local spat in Ukraine?
 
Sadly, freedom and minority rights in Crimea under Russian rule look more like this :(

Quote:

After Ametov took part in a meeting to support the EuroMaidan Revolution on March 3, a local TV crew filmed him standing in silent protest before uniformed Russian-backed armed men and Crimean self-defense forces surrounding the Cabinet of Ministers building in Simferopol.


“He was just standing there and they took him away,” Ametov’s mother, Refika Ametova, told the Kyiv Post. “He stood there for about an hour and a quarter, and I suppose they were waiting for him to leave. But he didn’t, and in the end they took his arms and took him away.”
Local witnesses tell The Interpreter that the victim's body was "found naked, his face wrapped with duct tape, and his hands bound by handcuffs not manufactured in Ukraine," raising ominous signs that the man was tortured before suffering a violent death at the hands of his unknown captors.
Quote:

Some 300 members of Crimea's Sunni Muslim Tatar community gathered at a cemetery outside the capital to pay their respects the father-of-three.
"This is the first time in 20 years that this has happened," one mourner said. "I don't think this will be the end.
http://www.ibtimes.co.uk/russia-anne...ametov-1440851

http://mashable.com/2014/03/18/funer...ean-tatar-man/

http://www.rferl.org/media/photogall.../25302058.html

http://gdb.rferl.org/F851EB45-B8E0-4...7_w974_n_s.jpg

marton 19.03.2014 12:58

Re: World War 3 or just a local spat in Ukraine?
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by esto (Post 2114031)
Sure:

http://www.ft.com/intl/cms/s/0/66a08...#axzz2wOpEBuji

I'm so glad Russia saved Crimea from bat-weilding fascist thugs :rolleyes:

...by the way, what happens now to the Ukrainian people in Crimea? Those who were born in Ukraine, lived in Ukraine all their life, have a Ukranian passport, and now suddenly within a couple of weeks, now find themselves in a foreign land? Who will protect these minorities now? Will Ukrainian be an official language there? Can they keep their Ukrainian passports? Will they be attacked or intimidated if they refuse?

About ".by the way, what happens now to the Ukrainian people in Crimea?" Well they already announced that Ukrainian laws are no longer valid in Crimea so some of the questions for Ukrainians there are;
  • Am I still a citizen, do I need a work or resident permit?
  • Do I still own my house, my car, my business
  • Are my savings, bank account, etc safe. Must I convert to roubles and at what exchange rate?
  • Am I still employed. Will I still get my wages/pension, etc.

No doubt many more questions

marton 19.03.2014 12:59

Re: World War 3 or just a local spat in Ukraine?
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by leonie (Post 2114060)
The first half of the world doesn't know it yet :)

The third half does :D

marton 19.03.2014 13:06

Re: World War 3 or just a local spat in Ukraine?
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by esto (Post 2114027)
Is that the same Putin who is still saying in public that the thousands of soldiers in Russian uniforms in Crimea, driving trucks with Russian military plates, flying in Russian military helicopters are in fact not Russian soldiers?

Like any dictator, I have trouble accepting his words at face value. I'm sure if in the next few days some "incident" should happen in Eastern Ukraine, Putin could easily announce that he "regrets" the need to send (Russian soldiers) local militias there to protect ethnic Russians, that it was "never his intention, but under the circumstances..." :rolleyes:

Fixed that for you :D

michleman 19.03.2014 15:23

Re: World War 3 or just a local spat in Ukraine?
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by marton (Post 2113756)
I have no clue what is the point you are making -

Well, I am hardly surprised.

michleman 19.03.2014 15:55

Re: World War 3 or just a local spat in Ukraine?
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by esto (Post 2114031)
...by the way, what happens now to the Ukrainian people in Crimea? Those who were born in Ukraine, lived in Ukraine all their life, have a Ukranian passport, and now suddenly within a couple of weeks, now find themselves in a foreign land? Who will protect these minorities now? Will Ukrainian be an official language there? Can they keep their Ukrainian passports? Will they be attacked or intimidated if they refuse?

...by the way, what happens now to the Serbian people in Kosovo? Those who were born in Serbia, lived in Serbia all their life, have a Serbian passport, and now suddenly within a couple of weeks, now find themselves in a foreign land? Who will protect these minorities now? Will Serbian be an official language there? Can they keep their Serbian passports? Will they be attacked or intimidated if they refuse?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2004_unrest_in_Kosovo

"During the unrest, 19 civilians were killed (8 ethnic Serbs and 11 ethnic Albanians), over 4,000 Serbs were forced to leave their homes, 935 Serb houses, 10 public facilities (schools, health care centers and post offices) and 35 Serbian Orthodox church-buildings were desecrated, damaged or destroyed, and six towns and nine villages were ethnically cleansed according to Serbian media"

Guest 19.03.2014 16:21

Re: World War 3 or just a local spat in Ukraine?
 
Empires work so much better than nation states, you know.


Who's up for a return to the 18th century? Bagsy I get to be Sultan of Constantinople. I'm sure a turban would suit me.


All times are GMT +2. The time now is 10:15.

Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.4
Copyright ©2000 - 2021, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
LinkBacks Enabled by vBSEO 3.1.0