 | | | 
19.02.2022, 18:40
| Forum Legend | | Join Date: Oct 2014 Location: Nyon
Posts: 8,109
Groaned at 514 Times in 378 Posts
Thanked 11,354 Times in 5,272 Posts
| | Re: World War 3 or just a local spat in Ukraine? | Quote: | |  | | | | | | | | They should teach their Vassals to aim better.
| This user would like to thank bowlie for this useful post: | | 
19.02.2022, 18:42
|  | Forum Veteran | | Join Date: Apr 2011 Location: Left bank of Lake Zurich
Posts: 1,444
Groaned at 66 Times in 46 Posts
Thanked 1,577 Times in 797 Posts
| | Re: World War 3 or just a local spat in Ukraine? | Quote: | |  | | | It's also sad from another angle: the propaganda machine of Russia has apparently a very low opinion of the intelligence level of the Russians; if they believe this will be credible enough, they must believe the audience is full of morons. | | | | | Unfortunately, it works. Many Ukrainians have friends and relatives in Russia who believe all this BS that Russian channels are pouring in their ears everyday. Not only in Russia, but also in other ex-USSR countries and even abroad. This stupidity of the audience served badly to Russian government when they started vaccination compain only to find out that the citizens were not only amenable to anti-western propaganda but also to anti-vax propaganda.
| This user would like to thank TinyK for this useful post: | | This user groans at TinyK for this post: | | 
19.02.2022, 20:31
| Senior Member | | Join Date: Apr 2015 Location: Zürich
Posts: 425
Groaned at 30 Times in 22 Posts
Thanked 395 Times in 210 Posts
| | Re: World War 3 or just a local spat in Ukraine?
Reports indicating that Germany is advising its citizens to leave Ukraine immediately.
From what Ive seen, there has been significant increase in Russian military preparations over past 48 hours.
Zelensky also talking about pre-emptive sanctions (since the west is certain Russia will invade) and the idea that parts of Ukraine shouldn't need to be destroyed before sanctions are announced. He also referred to voiding the 1994 Budapest Memorandum.
Depending on perspective, talking about the 1994 agreement in that context MAY indicate that Ukraine is highlighting a potential nuclear option. I have no idea how quickly they can turn out a nuclear device but its not out of the question and would add another layer of complexity to resolving this.
| 
19.02.2022, 20:42
|  | Forum Legend | | Join Date: Jul 2009 Location: Lummerland
Posts: 5,661
Groaned at 235 Times in 156 Posts
Thanked 10,535 Times in 4,123 Posts
| | Re: World War 3 or just a local spat in Ukraine? | Quote: | |  | | | Reports indicating that Germany is advising its citizens to leave Ukraine immediately.
From what Ive seen, there has been significant increase in Russian military preparations over past 48 hours.
Zelensky also talking about pre-emptive sanctions (since the west is certain Russia will invade) and the idea that parts of Ukraine shouldn't need to be destroyed before sanctions are announced. He also referred to voiding the 1994 Budapest Memorandum.
Depending on perspective, talking about the 1994 agreement in that context MAY indicate that Ukraine is highlighting a potential nuclear option. I have no idea how quickly they can turn out a nuclear device but its not out of the question and would add another layer of complexity to resolving this. | | | | | I always mistrusted the claim that the Ukrainians totally dismantled the former Soviet stockpile. Perhaps they kept a core or two for future "experiments"
| 
19.02.2022, 21:08
|  | Forum Veteran | | Join Date: Apr 2011 Location: Left bank of Lake Zurich
Posts: 1,444
Groaned at 66 Times in 46 Posts
Thanked 1,577 Times in 797 Posts
| | Re: World War 3 or just a local spat in Ukraine?
Unlikely. And Russia would have known about it for sure.
| 
19.02.2022, 21:18
|  | Forum Veteran | | Join Date: Apr 2011 Location: Left bank of Lake Zurich
Posts: 1,444
Groaned at 66 Times in 46 Posts
Thanked 1,577 Times in 797 Posts
| | Re: World War 3 or just a local spat in Ukraine? | Quote: | |  | | | Luckily this new 'majority' can now enjoy partitioned Ukraine. What is and will be left of it, if any. | | | | | Typical rhetoric from Russian forums. If you don't want to be our friends we will destroy you.
Ukrainians compare Russia to the neighbour who burned the entrance door, occupied one of the rooms, raped your wife and then asks you why you don't like him and don't want to be his friend. Unbelievable cynicism.
| This user would like to thank TinyK for this useful post: | | 
19.02.2022, 22:02
| Junior Member | | Join Date: Jan 2022 Location: Waadtland
Posts: 47
Groaned at 21 Times in 14 Posts
Thanked 116 Times in 72 Posts
| | Re: World War 3 or just a local spat in Ukraine?
So, if Ukraine feels threatened, why don't they deploy their army?
What game are they playing? Are they counting on USA? Are they trying to force US hand which, if they couldn't protect its de facto vassal state, then they won't be credible in Asia either? But Ukraine might pay a price if Russia invades as then they'll collapse very quickly.
| The following 2 users groan at Buenzli for this post: | | 
19.02.2022, 22:34
|  | Forum Legend | | Join Date: Jul 2009 Location: Lummerland
Posts: 5,661
Groaned at 235 Times in 156 Posts
Thanked 10,535 Times in 4,123 Posts
| | Re: World War 3 or just a local spat in Ukraine? | Quote: | |  | | | So, if Ukraine feels threatened, why don't they deploy their army?
What game are they playing? Are they counting on USA? Are they trying to force US hand which, if they couldn't protect its de facto vassal state, then they won't be credible in Asia either? But Ukraine might pay a price if Russia invades as then they'll collapse very quickly. | | | | | I do see parallels between the situation in Ukraine now with the backing of the US (nato) and the situation in Poland in 1939. Poland felt very secure with the backing of Britain and reinforced the fortifications on the Westerplatte in direct defiance to Germany´s demands.
| 
19.02.2022, 22:37
|  | Forum Legend | | Join Date: Jul 2009 Location: Lummerland
Posts: 5,661
Groaned at 235 Times in 156 Posts
Thanked 10,535 Times in 4,123 Posts
| | Re: World War 3 or just a local spat in Ukraine? | Quote: | |  | | | Unlikely. And Russia would have known about it for sure. | | | | | Maybe, maybe not. Ukraine secret service is very effective, but if they do have a core or two you can bet Rubles to Euros that they are frantically building a device.
| 
19.02.2022, 22:38
| Forum Legend | | Join Date: Feb 2010 Location: Kt.Zh
Posts: 12,166
Groaned at 487 Times in 402 Posts
Thanked 19,073 Times in 9,648 Posts
| | Re: World War 3 or just a local spat in Ukraine? | Quote: | |  | | | So, if Ukraine feels threatened, why don't they deploy their army?
What game are they playing? Are they counting on USA? Are they trying to force US hand which, if they couldn't protect its de facto vassal state, then they won't be credible in Asia either? But Ukraine might pay a price if Russia invades as then they'll collapse very quickly. | | | | | Ukraine is the facto USA's vassal state? Maybe it was better to be a de facto Russia's vassal state? Wait......they were and it didn't end up well for them.
Ukraine can force USA's hand? Seriously? Is that a scenario in the Russian province of Trollandia?
Buenzli, we all appreciate your deep involvement in this issue right from your 9th post on this forum, what an incredible coincidence, but we've seen it all here.
| The following 3 users would like to thank greenmount for this useful post: | | 
19.02.2022, 23:26
| Junior Member | | Join Date: Jan 2022 Location: Waadtland
Posts: 47
Groaned at 21 Times in 14 Posts
Thanked 116 Times in 72 Posts
| | Re: World War 3 or just a local spat in Ukraine? | Quote: | |  | | | Buenzli, we all appreciate your deep involvement in this issue right from your 9th post on this forum, what an incredible coincidence, but we've seen it all here. | | | | | Maybe my wording wasn't 100%, it should have been "a supposed vassal".
However, why isn't Ukraine calling up its army and deploying it except at the separatist "republics"? Maybe their politicians are so assured Russia is bluffing and think mobilising and making a defense posture could give an excuse Russia so desperately seeks, but if this calculation is wrong then that's an unexplainable lowering of the guard.
If they were counting on Western sanctions, that is now over, some painful sanctions should have been already put in place, Russia is playing North Korea rogue state right now missiles included, and has full assault readiness, everybody knows this not a military exercise any longer, but Russia is too powerful and there are too important economic relations that they haven't and won't be even more certainly after the fait accompli.
So, what the heck are the Ukrainian politicians thinking?
| This user would like to thank Buenzli for this useful post: | | This user groans at Buenzli for this post: | | 
19.02.2022, 23:31
|  | Forum Legend | | Join Date: Jan 2008 Location: SZ
Posts: 4,089
Groaned at 399 Times in 285 Posts
Thanked 8,790 Times in 3,758 Posts
| | Re: World War 3 or just a local spat in Ukraine?
I am quite sure the Ukrainian army is pretty much in DEFCON 1 by now.
| This user would like to thank komsomolez for this useful post: | | 
19.02.2022, 23:31
|  | Forum Veteran | | Join Date: Oct 2011 Location: BL
Posts: 1,282
Groaned at 235 Times in 170 Posts
Thanked 4,613 Times in 1,745 Posts
| | Re: World War 3 or just a local spat in Ukraine? | Quote: | |  | | | So, what the heck are the Ukrainian politicians thinking? | | | | | They were waiting for your genius advice, so drop a mail to Zelensky he's expecting your guidance | Quote: | |  | | | I am quite sure the Ukrainian army is pretty much in DEFCON 1 by now. | | | | | BTW the Russians really believe the whole world is stupid. The Ukrainians waited for the specific moment when they have 300k Russian soldiers at their borders in order to throw the two bombs. One in an empty field and another in an empty building.
| This user would like to thank gaburko for this useful post: | | 
19.02.2022, 23:39
|  | Forum Veteran | | Join Date: Apr 2011 Location: Left bank of Lake Zurich
Posts: 1,444
Groaned at 66 Times in 46 Posts
Thanked 1,577 Times in 797 Posts
| | Re: World War 3 or just a local spat in Ukraine?
Ukrainian army is preparing. Just not in a way that it can be used by Russian propaganda as a sign of preparation to attack L/DPR or Russia.
| This user would like to thank TinyK for this useful post: | | 
19.02.2022, 23:41
|  | Forum Legend | | Join Date: Jan 2008 Location: SZ
Posts: 4,089
Groaned at 399 Times in 285 Posts
Thanked 8,790 Times in 3,758 Posts
| | Re: World War 3 or just a local spat in Ukraine?
The Russian propaganda is tailored to the domestic audience, in looking forward to receiving flag-covered coffins. No one meaningful outside of Russia will buy their nonsense.
| This user would like to thank komsomolez for this useful post: | | 
19.02.2022, 23:45
|  | Forum Veteran | | Join Date: Oct 2011 Location: BL
Posts: 1,282
Groaned at 235 Times in 170 Posts
Thanked 4,613 Times in 1,745 Posts
| | Re: World War 3 or just a local spat in Ukraine?
I know it's not a funny time especially for Ukrainians, but in my defense this was sent to me by a Ukrainian friend
Russia:
If Ukraine starts to kill Russians we will strike back!
*Ukraine doing nothing*
Russia: ok I will do it by myself...
| 
19.02.2022, 23:50
|  | Forum Legend | | Join Date: Jan 2008 Location: SZ
Posts: 4,089
Groaned at 399 Times in 285 Posts
Thanked 8,790 Times in 3,758 Posts
| | Re: World War 3 or just a local spat in Ukraine?
Talking about inappropriate jokes: | This user would like to thank komsomolez for this useful post: | | 
20.02.2022, 00:15
|  | Forum Veteran | | Join Date: Apr 2011 Location: Left bank of Lake Zurich
Posts: 1,444
Groaned at 66 Times in 46 Posts
Thanked 1,577 Times in 797 Posts
| | Re: World War 3 or just a local spat in Ukraine? | Quote: | |  | | | The Russian propaganda is tailored to the domestic audience, in looking forward to receiving flag-covered coffins. | | | | | You think better about Russia than it deserves. Till now Russian soldiers that died in Donbass were buried secretly.
| 
20.02.2022, 01:15
| Junior Member | | Join Date: Jan 2022 Location: Waadtland
Posts: 47
Groaned at 21 Times in 14 Posts
Thanked 116 Times in 72 Posts
| | Re: World War 3 or just a local spat in Ukraine? | Quote: | |  | | | BTW the Russians really believe the whole world is stupid. The Ukrainians waited for the specific moment when they have 300k Russian soldiers at their borders in order to throw the two bombs. One in an empty field and another in an empty building. | | | | | Now, they aren't, of course. If they are fooling anyone, then some of the Russians who trust the state media.
Externally, this serves a plausible deniability purpose so that if/when other countries decide that their interests with Russia are above Ukraine's, they can do it easier and play dumb if accused.
| This user would like to thank Buenzli for this useful post: | | 
20.02.2022, 07:55
| | Re: World War 3 or just a local spat in Ukraine? | Quote: | |  | | | Unfortunately, it works. Many Ukrainians have friends and relatives in Russia who believe all this BS that Russian channels are pouring in their ears everyday. Not only in Russia, but also in other ex-USSR countries and even abroad. This stupidity of the audience served badly to Russian government when they started vaccination compain only to find out that the citizens were not only amenable to anti-western propaganda but also to anti-vax propaganda. | | | | | So the Russian side of the story is a stupid propaganda, and the Ukrainian side is the truth. And you really believe that the audience in Russia is more stupid that the audience in Ukraine. Well, this is exactly how propaganda works.
To me it looks like that neither Russia nor Ukraine need or want this war. It will be a political disaster for Russia to go to war with Ukraine. And for Ukraine it will be a tragedy and a human disaster. Almost every Russian has connections to Ukraine, friends, relatives. I still don’t believe that the war will happen. There are some players who are interested in this war but most of them are outside of Uktaine or Russia.
| The following 2 users would like to thank for this useful post: | |
Currently Active Users Viewing This Thread: 5 (2 members and 3 guests) | cannut | Thread Tools | | Display Modes | Linear Mode |
Posting Rules
| You may not post new threads You may not post replies You may not post attachments You may not edit your posts HTML code is Off | | | All times are GMT +2. The time now is 23:08. | |