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  #2301  
Old 21.02.2022, 17:40
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Re: World War 3 or just a local spat in Ukraine?

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Oh they can do it, they shouldn't, but they definitely can do it.
Lavrov and Blinken are meeting this week, maybe they agree on something…
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  #2302  
Old 21.02.2022, 17:50
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Re: World War 3 or just a local spat in Ukraine?

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Did they go completely crazy? They cannot do this.
The Russian government? No, they are just doing what the rest of the world allows them to do. They have an ideology of "gopnik" (how is it on English)? They can take anything that is not protected by someone stronger than they. Putin wants to build a new USSR and be a leader of it. That will be the biggest achievement of his political career.
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  #2303  
Old 21.02.2022, 18:01
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Re: World War 3 or just a local spat in Ukraine?

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Lavrov and Blinken are meeting this week, maybe they agree on something…
The danger is that this is playing into Putin's hand. He wants to be seen by the world as a world leader to whom the rest of the world begs for mercy and negotiates with. Blinken needs to understand that both Putin and Lavrov understand only the language of power. Hopefully for the sake of Ukraine and Eastern Europe this doesn't turn into a negotiation. There's really nothing to negotiate.


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They have an ideology of "gopnik" (how is it on English)?.
Gopnik/Гопник is essentially a city-based redneck. Pity that these days I practice my Russian only by reading propaganda-style rubbish
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  #2304  
Old 21.02.2022, 18:13
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Re: World War 3 or just a local spat in Ukraine?

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Defence Secretary Ben Wallace has said there is still “strong cause for concern” that Vladimir Putin remains committed to an invasion of Ukraine, despite diplomatic moves to end the crisis.
Just concern? Not even deep concern?
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  #2305  
Old 21.02.2022, 18:15
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Re: World War 3 or just a local spat in Ukraine?

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The danger is that this is playing into Putin's hand. He wants to be seen by the world as a world leader to whom the rest of the world begs for mercy and negotiates with. Blinken needs to understand that both Putin and Lavrov understand only the language of power. Hopefully for the sake of Ukraine and Eastern Europe this doesn't turn into a negotiation. There's really nothing to negotiate.
I disagree, if there is any possibility to stop this by negotiation, this must be tried and done. I still hope that this is bluffing, let’s see if Puting recognizes the independence of the republics, he makes the decision today.
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  #2306  
Old 21.02.2022, 18:19
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Re: World War 3 or just a local spat in Ukraine?

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I disagree, if there is any possibility to stop this by negotiation, this must be tried and done.
My point is that he is threatening the sovereignty of an independent country without any provocation or reason to do so. Negotiations ending in ANYTHING that remotely resembles giving him even a dime would only further fuel him and each next time will be even more painful. This is the tragic mistake Neville Chamberlain did and I just hope we don't do it again.
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  #2307  
Old 21.02.2022, 18:58
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Re: World War 3 or just a local spat in Ukraine?

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I disagree, if there is any possibility to stop this by negotiation, this must be tried and done. I still hope that this is bluffing, let’s see if Puting recognizes the independence of the republics, he makes the decision today.
dont agree. negotiations means compromise. compromise means that putin will get at least something from his wishlist. the problem (for putin) - noone going to give him anything.
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  #2308  
Old 21.02.2022, 19:35
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Re: World War 3 or just a local spat in Ukraine?

Seems that there is some cross border artillery pingpong going on, or Ukraine forces made an incursion into Russian territory, whatever. (here it comes, seems the decision on the separatist states is over)
American media spewing something about Kremlin death lists for dissidents, where even I think: "America, go home, you´re drunk."
This war is a-coming, so everybody, have a happy apocalypse.
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  #2309  
Old 21.02.2022, 19:41
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Re: World War 3 or just a local spat in Ukraine?

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Ukraine forces made an incursion into Russian territory, whatever. (here it comes, seems the decision on the separatist states is over)
.
Do you honestly believe yourself that the Ukrainian army entered Russia?
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Old 21.02.2022, 19:47
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Re: World War 3 or just a local spat in Ukraine?

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Do you honestly believe yourself that the Ukrainian army entered Russia?

No, but i certainly don't put it past the Ukrainians to "tickle" Russia a little to try and get a reaction and the claim the moral high ground as having been invaded and getting the US & NATO involved fat further than either they want to or have too.



With all the rhetoric coming from Boris, Biden and Napoleon, they will be obliged to do something or for ever shut up
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  #2311  
Old 21.02.2022, 19:48
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Re: World War 3 or just a local spat in Ukraine?

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Do you honestly believe yourself that the Ukrainian army entered Russia?
Not really, unless you count that Donbas is now recognized by the Kremlin as being Russian, that is what I was trying to say in my clumsy way. Or yes, why not, or it´s a false flag, or a false, false flag.
There is no way to tell anymore, ones personal beliefs count and only time will tell.
Thing is this war is going to kick off and I don´t think that any last minute talks are going to change anything.
Jaw, jaw is over.
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Old 21.02.2022, 19:57
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Re: World War 3 or just a local spat in Ukraine?

I do agree that all these talks have an aura that resembles what people might have felt in 1938, when it was about the Sudetenland etc.pp.

I wonder, who's gonna bring "Peace, in our time" - and for how long exactly?

We all know how that one ended - so, we've sort of come full-circle.

I wonder who (of the politicians) is secretly asking himself: am I going to end up as "Chamberlain?".

One thing is clear to me: in a game of chicken, it looks like Putin is very, very hard to beat.

And certainly not by gestures of sending 5000 helmets
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  #2313  
Old 21.02.2022, 19:59
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Re: World War 3 or just a local spat in Ukraine?

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Do you honestly believe yourself that the Ukrainian army entered Russia?
IMHO, it's rather a question of just how much control both Kiev and Moscow have over the various splinter-groups there.

There's obviously some control, yes. But it's not like we're talking Wehrmacht and USSR army here anymore, right?
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Old 21.02.2022, 20:05
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Re: World War 3 or just a local spat in Ukraine?

Oh, and as for Japan taking back territory.

My bet would rather be China taking back Taiwan and maybe Erdogan taking over part of Greece.

Because, these two (Xi and Erdogan) are also firmly in wag-the-dog territory now.

Once this thing goes off, COVID will look like a picknick.
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  #2315  
Old 21.02.2022, 20:15
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Re: World War 3 or just a local spat in Ukraine?

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IMHO, it's rather a question of just how much control both Kiev and Moscow have over the various splinter-groups there.

There's obviously some control, yes. But it's not like we're talking Wehrmacht and USSR army here anymore, right?
"Cry Havoc and let slip the dogs of war!"
What control does one have over young men running on testosterone and the common sense god gave a bag of hammers? Give such a creature a gun and tell them it´s a live action first person shooter and only professional Soldateska will have the discipline to keep a war under control.
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  #2316  
Old 21.02.2022, 20:32
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Re: World War 3 or just a local spat in Ukraine?

The issue with negotiations is that this is a hostage situation. I would NEITHER trust the hostage negotiator that whatever he offers will be lasting or for real NOR would I trust the kidnapper that once you give in, he will not do the same stunt again and ask for more.
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  #2317  
Old 21.02.2022, 20:38
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Re: World War 3 or just a local spat in Ukraine?

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No, but i certainly don't put it past the Ukrainians to "tickle" Russia a little to try and get a reaction
Tickle Russia being surrounded by 2/3 of the Russian military forces? Seriously? Ukraine is so careful now as they weren't in the last 8 years, not to give Putin the picture he wants.
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Old 21.02.2022, 20:40
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Re: World War 3 or just a local spat in Ukraine?

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American media spewing something about Kremlin death lists for dissidents, where even I think: "America, go home, you´re drunk."
This war is a-coming, so everybody, have a happy apocalypse.
Russia and Belarus torture their own citizens. Why wouldn't they torture captured Ukrainians?
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Old 21.02.2022, 20:40
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Re: World War 3 or just a local spat in Ukraine?

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Tickle Russia being surrounded by 2/3 of the Russian military forces? Seriously? Ukraine is so careful now as they weren't in the last 8 years, not to give Putin the picture he wants.
He will invent something....as far as I could read various declarations and news I am worried for Ukraine.

I think Putin declared that a meeting with Biden is no more necessary, which means he made up his mind?
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  #2320  
Old 21.02.2022, 21:01
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Re: World War 3 or just a local spat in Ukraine?

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I disagree, if there is any possibility to stop this by negotiation, this must be tried and done. I still hope that this is bluffing, let’s see if Puting recognizes the independence of the republics, he makes the decision today.
Breaking on CNN, he recognizes the territories and apparently called Ukraine "an integral part of Russia".
Link with regular updates: https://edition.cnn.com/europe/live-...-22/index.html

Last edited by 3Wishes; 21.02.2022 at 21:04. Reason: added link
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