World War 3 or just a local spat in Ukraine? - Page 117

litespeed · #**2321** 21.02.2022, 21:05

	Quote:	3Wishes
	Breaking on CNN, he recognizes the territories and apparently called Ukraine "an integral part of Russia". Link with regular updates: https://edition.cnn.com/europe/live-...-22/index.html

BOOM!! (pun not intended, but somewhat fitting). The eviction process will soon start... :-(

greenmount · #**2322** 21.02.2022, 21:28

	Quote:	rainer_d
	Oh, and as for Japan taking back territory. My bet would rather be China taking back Taiwan and maybe Erdogan taking over part of Greece. Because, these two (Xi and Erdogan) are also firmly in wag-the-dog territory now. Once this thing goes off, COVID will look like a picknick.

It is the other way around, Greece should demand and take over at least Constantinopolis...

komsomolez · #**2323** 21.02.2022, 21:40

	Quote:	3Wishes
	Breaking on CNN, he recognizes the territories and apparently called Ukraine "an integral part of Russia". Link with regular updates: https://edition.cnn.com/europe/live-...-22/index.html

Jesus. Is this confirmed? Just read about something like "historically Russian territory". Which is bad enough.

3Wishes · #**2324** 21.02.2022, 21:47

	Quote:	komsomolez
	Jesus. Is this confirmed? Just read about something like "historically Russian territory". Which is bad enough.

I'm not sure. I just saw the headline and remembered that someone else posted above that Putin would decide today. I guess Putin made a really long speech that brought up Stalin, Lenin, other history, etc.

Wild guess is that by recognizing these breakaway areas as their own countries, Putin can waltz in and "assist" them when they ask.

TinyK · #**2325** 21.02.2022, 21:48

I told you a few pages ago: Putin thinks that the existence of Ukraine is a mistake. He will do anything to destroy it if he is allowed. It's not about USA or Biden, it's about Putin's ambitions.

Medea Fleecestealer · #**2326** 21.02.2022, 21:49

"Speaking in a televised national address immediately after the announcement, Mr Putin said modern Ukraine had been "created" by Soviet Russia, referring to the country as "ancient Russian lands".

https://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-60468237

Also in the article:

"Russian passports have been given out to large numbers of people in both Donetsk and Luhansk, and Western allies fear that Russia could now move military units into the rebel-held areas under the guise of protecting its citizens."

Not sure how he reconciles "independent states" with "ancient Russian lands" though. Can't have it both ways, but I doubt it'll bother him much when he does invade those areas.

komsomolez · #**2327** 21.02.2022, 22:01

	Quote:	Medea Fleecestealer
	Mr Putin said modern Ukraine had been "created" by Soviet Russia, referring to the country as "ancient Russian lands".

The Lord giveth, and the Lord taketh it away.

Rjellsch · #**2328** 21.02.2022, 22:05

	Quote:	komsomolez
	Jesus. Is this confirmed? Just read about something like "historically Russian territory". Which is bad enough.

If you listen to Putin`s speech, he questions Ukraine`s validity as a state. He talks about redrawing European borders. Also claims Ukraine is a US colony with a puppet government. Along with that, you'll hear Ukraine is developing nuclear weapons.

About the only invasion pretext not mentioned was genocide. Its possible I just didn't hear that part though.

It could be looked at as his justification for taking back the whole eastern block.

slammer · #**2329** 21.02.2022, 22:10

Just surprised that Ukraine hasn´t brought up the Holodomor as a rallying cry.

komsomolez · #**2330** 21.02.2022, 22:14

	Quote:	slammer
	just surprised that ukraine hasn´t brought up the holodomor as a rallying cry.

wtf

greenmount · #**2331** 21.02.2022, 22:17

	Quote:	slammer
	Just surprised that Ukraine hasn´t brought up the Holodomor as a rallying cry.

Maybe they should have, Holodomor is NOT known (internationally) well enough.

Thank you, it is a great suggestion. Even if you mentioned it in a sarcastic way.

Putin thinks he's smart? Nah.

TinyK · #**2332** 21.02.2022, 22:43

	Quote:	greenmount
	Maybe they should have, Holodomor is NOT known (internationally) well enough.

Prigozhyn's trolls are out of new ideas because the new guidelines haven't been released yet, as Putin has just finished his speech. So they have to improvise for a while, otherwise they won't have necessary amount of messages per day and won't get paid.

slammer · #**2333** 21.02.2022, 23:04

	Quote:	greenmount
	Maybe they should have, Holodomor is NOT known (internationally) well enough. Thank you, it is a great suggestion. Even if you mentioned it in a sarcastic way. Putin thinks he's smart? Nah.

Actually I did not mean it sarcastically, it´s when a country in situations like Ukraine is in now bring up rallying cries from historic events that shit gets real and I am surprised that we are not hearing about this.
Remember when Milošević whipped up xenophobia with the "remember the Amselfeld" in his Gazimestan speech. Remember how that played out.

Rjellsch · #**2334** 21.02.2022, 23:10

Multiple report of Russian troops and equipment moving into the newly recognised independent states of Donetsk and Luhansk.

I can't help but feel the world is going to change dramatically overnight.

komsomolez · #**2335** 21.02.2022, 23:16

	Quote:	Rjellsch
	Multiple report of Russian troops and equipment moving into the newly recognised independent states of Donetsk and Luhansk. I can't help but feel the world is going to change dramatically overnight.

Peacekeeping ...

An awful day for Ukraine and the world.

Buenzli · #**2336** 21.02.2022, 23:49

	Quote:	Rjellsch
	Multiple report of Russian troops and equipment moving into the newly recognised independent states of Donetsk and Luhansk. I can't help but feel the world is going to change dramatically overnight.

I don't think so, unless they don't stop there.
Joe Biden on Jan. 19th:

	Quote:
	And so, I think what you’re going to see is that Russia will be held accountable if it invades. And it depends on what it does. It’s one thing if it’s a minor incursion and then we end up having a fight about what to do and not do, et cetera

Remarks by President Biden in Press Conference

Blueangel · #**2337** 22.02.2022, 00:17

	Quote:	Medea Fleecestealer
	"Speaking in a televised national address immediately after the announcement, Mr Putin said modern Ukraine had been "created" by Soviet Russia, referring to the country as "ancient Russian lands".

I find this to be a useful tool for looking at boundary changes.

https://www.visualcapitalist.com/240...opean-history/

litespeed · #**2338** 22.02.2022, 07:18

	Quote:	komsomolez
	Peacekeeping ... An awful day for Ukraine and the world.

Even if you hate the guy (and most of us do), you have to admire Vlad's patience in playing the long game. He caught the world sleeping when he annexed Crimea, but wasn't brave enough to go forward at the time.

What has changed? China. Xi also gained indefinite rule and both countries have struck a closer alliance, whilst Trump undermined traditional US foreign policy of trying to keep adversaries divided.

China is the key reason the US won't defend Ukraine militarily, and Putin knows it. So he continues to slowly boil the frog* that is Ukraine.

gaburko · #**2339** 22.02.2022, 07:53

	Quote:	litespeed
	What has changed? China.

I agree. Moreover, it's now a crucial moment as China is watching to see how will the West react, i.e. how heavy the sanctions will be and it will use this as an acid test to see how much cost he will incur when/if he annexes Taiwan. If the US/EU now imposes so-so sanctions on a few individuals and plays the cover-up game, he's giving Xi a wild-card.

litespeed · #**2340** 22.02.2022, 08:19

	Quote:	gaburko
	I agree. Moreover, it's now a crucial moment as China is watching to see how will the West react, i.e. how heavy the sanctions will be and it will use this as an acid test to see how much cost he will incur when/if he annexes Taiwan. If the US/EU now imposes so-so sanctions on a few individuals and plays the cover-up game, he's giving Xi a wild-card.

Exactly..it is a fine line between allowing these two countries to take over disputed territory and starting WWIII