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24.02.2022, 09:29
|  | Forum Veteran | | Join Date: Oct 2007 Location: Zurich
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| | Re: World War 3 or just a local spat in Ukraine?
Who profits financially from the Russian invasion of Ukraine? I tried to research open sources, but am non the wiser.
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24.02.2022, 09:31
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| | Re: World War 3 or just a local spat in Ukraine? | Quote: | |  | | | The quote is still very unclear and obviously looks to anyone reading like you are criticizing greenmounts post. | | | | | It was perfectly clear to me if you had followed the chain of posts which is common sense really. It would only have been unclear if taken out of context.
That’s all by the by, can we stop the to and fro about one post and keep to the topic of the thread?
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24.02.2022, 09:34
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| | Re: World War 3 or just a local spat in Ukraine? | Quote: | |  | | | Russian people, Ukrainians and Belarusians are pretty much the same people with very minor differences. There are far more similarities between these three than between Swiss Germans, Romands and Swiss Italians...
That's why the idea of a Confederation (see my previous post) is the only realistic solution. Anything else will lead to war and don't count on the Americans, British, Germans, Italians and French to go fight for Ukraine. | | | | | will lead to war? the war is already 9 years.
mentally, there is nothing in common between russians and ukrainians
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24.02.2022, 09:37
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| | Re: World War 3 or just a local spat in Ukraine? | Quote: | |  | | | Oh sweet summer child. In an ideal world where people sing Kumbaya you would be correct.
But in this world where Realpolitik dictates how things pan out, there is no nato expansion eastwards without addressing Russian interests. And this did not happen, the result is now an invasion of Ukraine. | | | | | In the past 18 years. the following countries joined NATO, which of these is "nato expansion eastwards"?
North Macedonia
Montenegro
Albania
Croatia
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24.02.2022, 09:37
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| | Re: World War 3 or just a local spat in Ukraine? | Quote: | |  | | | | | | | |
Neither will Israel, Turkey, UAE, Mexico, Brazil, China and most countries outside NATO.
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24.02.2022, 09:38
| Forum Legend | | Join Date: Feb 2010 Location: Kt.ZH
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| | Re: World War 3 or just a local spat in Ukraine? | Quote: | |  | | | I wonder whose alternate account this is. | | | | | Me too. | 
24.02.2022, 09:38
| | Re: World War 3 or just a local spat in Ukraine? | Quote: | |  | | | Who profits financially from the Russian invasion of Ukraine? I tried to research open sources, but am non the wiser. | | | | | Well, if Russia is kicked out of the European gas market then some circles the US and Qatar will profit financially.
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24.02.2022, 09:41
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| | Re: World War 3 or just a local spat in Ukraine? | Quote: | |  | | | Well, if Russia is kicked out of the European gas market then some circles the US and Qatar will profit financially. | | | | | I really doubt that Russia will be kicked out of the European gas market. Diversification, looking for alternative sources, but eliminating it all together doesn't look (at all) realistic.
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24.02.2022, 09:42
| | Re: World War 3 or just a local spat in Ukraine? | Quote: | |  | | | mentally, there is nothing in common between russians and ukrainians | | | | | This is not true. These peoples are very connected, many through family ties.
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24.02.2022, 09:45
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| | Re: World War 3 or just a local spat in Ukraine? | Quote: | |  | | | | | | | | You do know Switzerland is not in the EU?
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24.02.2022, 09:46
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| | Re: World War 3 or just a local spat in Ukraine? | Quote: | |  | | | This is not true. These peoples are very connected, many through family ties. | | | | | i have family ties but claim again - mentally its like 2 different planets. you can believe in the opposite, but the fact of war proves my point of view
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24.02.2022, 09:47
|  | Forum Veteran | | Join Date: Oct 2011 Location: BL
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| | Re: World War 3 or just a local spat in Ukraine? | Quote: | |  | | | Russian people, Ukrainians and Belarusians are pretty much the same people with very minor differences...That's why the idea of a Confederation (see my previous post) is the only realistic solution. | | | | | Absolute garbage! Since when is ethnicity the driving factor for state borders? Your logic is not only flawed, but dangerous. Does it mean that Putin now has the right to "unite" the rest of the Slavs in Serbia, Croatia, Bulgaria, Macedonia? Does it mean that England can "unite" with the Nordic countries as they are ethnically similar? State borders have nothing to do with ethnicity, don't fall into the shallow logic of Putin who tries to justify this horrendous act on historical grounds.
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24.02.2022, 09:50
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| | Re: World War 3 or just a local spat in Ukraine? | Quote: | |  | | | I already reported the most recent one. 
Report it, don't engage. | | | | | This guy is certainly not a troll, he predicted a full-scale invasion a few weeks ago already, I will just remind his analysis from back then: PUTIN’S WAGER IN RUSSIA’S STANDOFF WITH THE WEST
My point is: everybody knew that this is an unprecedented threat to the Ukraine and European security. However, the Western world haven't made anything even close to a response that would make Russia reconsider.
I think this headline and opening lines illustrate the sentiment - Le Monde wrote on Feb 11th. I think it doesn't need a translation. Face à la Russie, les Etats-Unis se risquent à la dénonciation préventive | Quote: |  | | | Ces dernières semaines, la Maison Blanche a misé sur une dramatisation de la menace russe sur l’Ukraine, allant jusqu’à annoncer une invasion « imminente ». Mais les accusations n’ont pas toujours été illustrées par des preuves. | | | | | (French dramatisation means blowing out of all proportion.)
So, (the inconvenient) truth is: no real economic sanctions, very limited arms shipments, no modern anti-aircraft and anti-missile systems that could prevent Russia air-supremacy. Russia anyway heavily relies on its ground forces, much more than Western armies, but just think of Syria to understand what bombers, drones and missiles can do if there is no countermeasure.
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24.02.2022, 09:54
| | Re: World War 3 or just a local spat in Ukraine? | Quote: | |  | | | i have family ties but claim again - mentally its like 2 different planets. you can believe in the opposite, but the fact of war proves my point of view | | | | | The fact of war. I thought the war was impossible exactly for that reason. Ukrainians and Russians are not 2 different planets of course and are historically very close nations, but you have a point — they are at war. This is crazy.
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24.02.2022, 10:03
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| | Re: World War 3 or just a local spat in Ukraine?
What a tragic course of events this morning, like the rest of you I feel for Ukraine in her hour of need.
I cannot help wondering what emboldened Putin to do this ?
Was it the shambles of the American & other Western powers pullout from Afghanistan after years & years of not
giving ground against terrorism and extremism.
Did the fall of Kabul put us on the slippery path to war in Ukraine ???
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24.02.2022, 10:10
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| | Re: World War 3 or just a local spat in Ukraine? | Quote: | |  | | |
Did the fall of Kabul put us on the slippery path to war in Ukraine ??? | | | | | I believe it was the lack of (actual) response from west when Russians attacked Georgia in 2008 and had the annexation Crimea in 2014.
They knew from these points onwards that all they're going to get is some verbal punishment and some level of sanctions. Hardly matters to them, considering their relationship and support from China.
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24.02.2022, 10:14
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| | Re: World War 3 or just a local spat in Ukraine? | Quote: | |  | | | I believe it was the lack of (actual) response from west when Russians attacked Georgia in 2008 and had the annexation Crimea in 2014.
They knew from these points onwards that all they're going to get is some verbal punishment and some level of sanctions. Hardly matters to them, considering their relationship and support from China. | | | | |
Speaking of China, I bet Taiwan are viewing these events with trepidation as China's always threatened to take back Taiwan which it regards as a rebel province & not a country.
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24.02.2022, 10:15
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| | Re: World War 3 or just a local spat in Ukraine? | Quote: | |  | | | Meanwhile Switzerland will not even join the EU/US sanctions agains Russia. | | | | | | Quote: | |  | | | You do know Switzerland is not in the EU? | | | | | Likely, and probably knows that it isn't in the US as well. | This user would like to thank NotAllThere for this useful post: | | 
24.02.2022, 10:19
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| | Re: World War 3 or just a local spat in Ukraine? | Quote: | |  | | | I cannot help wondering what emboldened Putin to do this ? | | | | | The strong will always try to conquer the weak.
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24.02.2022, 10:20
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| | Re: World War 3 or just a local spat in Ukraine? | Quote: | |  | | | The fact of war. I thought the war was impossible exactly for that reason. Ukrainians and Russians are not 2 different planets of course and are historically very close nations, but you have a point — they are at war. This is crazy. | | | | | Please, have a look at Russia's recent history - They mass-deported millions from the Eastern Europe towards Kazakhstan and Siberia (with millions starved to death), they caused genocidal famines by their disastrous economic policies that are suspected were engineered to achieve their ethnic goals, and they also brutally oppressed their own people. This system of power, secret police, regular police and administration was never held accountable of their crimes and was carried over to the Russian Federation. Putin's coming to power is a good illustration of it - Russian apartment bombings
Given their proven track record, they are more than capable of inflicting death and misery on anyone, their own people included.
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