Go Back   English Forum Switzerland > Off-Topic > Off-Topic > International affairs/politics  
Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
  #2541  
Old 24.02.2022, 10:26
Forum Legend
 
Join Date: Feb 2010
Location: Kt.Zh
Posts: 12,166
Groaned at 487 Times in 402 Posts
Thanked 19,073 Times in 9,648 Posts
greenmount has a reputation beyond reputegreenmount has a reputation beyond reputegreenmount has a reputation beyond reputegreenmount has a reputation beyond reputegreenmount has a reputation beyond reputegreenmount has a reputation beyond repute
Re: World War 3 or just a local spat in Ukraine?

Quote:
View Post
Please, have a look at Russia's recent history - They mass-deported millions from the Eastern Europe towards Kazakhstan and Siberia (with millions starved to death), they caused genocidal famines by their disastrous economic policies that are suspected were engineered to achieve their ethnic goals, and they also brutally oppressed their own people. This system of power, secret police, regular police and administration was never held accountable of their crimes and was carried over to the Russian Federation. Putin's coming to power is a good illustration of it - Russian apartment bombings
Given their proven track record, they are more than capable of inflicting death and misery on anyone, their own people included.
More of it here
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Popula...e_Soviet_Union

Anyway, let's go get back to this war, what's in the past is better to stay in the past.
I am still shocked. I thought not even Putin will be that crazy to invade Ukraine. He will lose the Russian people's support, whatever is left of it, maybe not today or tomorrow but Ukraine will be his grave, politically.
Does anyone else here agree with me on this one?
Reply With Quote
The following 4 users would like to thank greenmount for this useful post:
This user groans at greenmount for this post:
  #2542  
Old 24.02.2022, 10:35
Forum Veteran
 
Join Date: May 2021
Location: Vaud
Posts: 963
Groaned at 210 Times in 138 Posts
Thanked 1,621 Times in 677 Posts
MattyRedSox has a reputation beyond reputeMattyRedSox has a reputation beyond reputeMattyRedSox has a reputation beyond reputeMattyRedSox has a reputation beyond reputeMattyRedSox has a reputation beyond repute
Re: World War 3 or just a local spat in Ukraine?

So much speculation - and anyone looking to point a finger and simply explain how this happened is over simplifying, which is typical for folks who canít see the gray.
Itís Putinís fault mainly. You can add into it the weak responses from the West, both recently as well as over a decade ago. You can blame Trumpís idolization of Putin and other strong men, as well as the right in the US siding with Russia. You can blame failed responses to North Korea shooting missiles over Japan unchecked. You can blame Chinaís various unchecked abuses of human rights and aggression towards Taiwan and power plays over Hong Kong. You can blame the fall of Kabul and the US publicís weariness of overseas wars. You can blame the Ukraineís poverty or how itís not considered part of Europe or worth the effort by many Western Europeans. You can blame the the racist attitudes of many Ukrainian fans in the hockey and football tournaments that made many who would normally embrace those who stand against aggressors a bit more indifferent to the Ukraineís plight. You can blame COVID and the mental and physical exhaustion from the pandemic. You can blame the media for a thousand different angles. Iím sure Iíve missed more than a few. Itís all of these factors and then some. Itís not one simple reason.

Itís happened. Most of us kind of knew it would. Now what? I guess that there will be more infighting amongst the west and that folks will grumble about fuel prices and then generally forget about what isnít impacting them directly. Not enough folks really care - thatís what Putin gambled on and likely was correct.
__________________
ďone of the good guysĒ
Reply With Quote
The following 3 users would like to thank MattyRedSox for this useful post:
  #2543  
Old 24.02.2022, 10:36
gaburko's Avatar
Forum Veteran
 
Join Date: Oct 2011
Location: BL
Posts: 1,282
Groaned at 235 Times in 170 Posts
Thanked 4,613 Times in 1,745 Posts
gaburko has a reputation beyond reputegaburko has a reputation beyond reputegaburko has a reputation beyond reputegaburko has a reputation beyond reputegaburko has a reputation beyond reputegaburko has a reputation beyond repute
Re: World War 3 or just a local spat in Ukraine?

Quote:
View Post
Given their proven track record, they are more than capable of inflicting death and misery on anyone, their own people included.
It's absurd really. Nobody wants to live in Russia and yet the Russians insist on imposing their ways on everyone around.
Reply With Quote
This user would like to thank gaburko for this useful post:
This user groans at gaburko for this post:
  #2544  
Old 24.02.2022, 10:38
leonie
 
Posts: n/a
Re: World War 3 or just a local spat in Ukraine?

Quote:
View Post
It's absurd really. Nobody wants to live in Russia and yet the Russians insist on imposing their ways on everyone around.
Many people live in Russia and want to live in Russia. At least up until now they did.
Reply With Quote
The following 3 users would like to thank for this useful post:
  #2545  
Old 24.02.2022, 10:42
litespeed's Avatar
Forum Legend
 
Join Date: Feb 2006
Location: Dietikon ZH
Posts: 2,561
Groaned at 26 Times in 23 Posts
Thanked 4,066 Times in 1,324 Posts
litespeed has a reputation beyond reputelitespeed has a reputation beyond reputelitespeed has a reputation beyond reputelitespeed has a reputation beyond reputelitespeed has a reputation beyond reputelitespeed has a reputation beyond repute
Re: World War 3 or just a local spat in Ukraine?

Quote:
View Post
The strong will always try to conquer the weak.
It depends on what you define as strong. History is littered with David vs Goliath victories. Additionally, the "home advantage" is not to be underrated. However modern military equipment is making it harder for an under-equipped defence.

More relevant is the old saying "if you want peace, you must prepare for war". We must accept that Putin, like Hitler, has simply used diplomacy to buy time, and that Putin can only be stopped with military resistance (or the real threat thereof). Russians need to go home in body bags for this to stop.

Sadly, many, many people will die or suffer before this is over.
__________________
So sayeth the 'Speed
* I do look like my avatar
Reply With Quote
The following 10 users would like to thank litespeed for this useful post:
  #2546  
Old 24.02.2022, 10:52
TinyK's Avatar
Forum Veteran
 
Join Date: Apr 2011
Location: Left bank of Lake Zurich
Posts: 1,444
Groaned at 66 Times in 46 Posts
Thanked 1,577 Times in 797 Posts
TinyK has a reputation beyond reputeTinyK has a reputation beyond reputeTinyK has a reputation beyond reputeTinyK has a reputation beyond repute
Re: World War 3 or just a local spat in Ukraine?

Quote:
View Post
I meant comment from TinyK. I understand though that everyone is emotional at the moment, I am very upset as well.
To us "Russian world/peace" (it's the same word in Russian) it's a phrase that means exactly this what is happening in Ukraine right now. It has nothing to do Russian nation or Russian language (apart from the fact that Russian passports and protection of Russian language are used as a formal occasion for invasion).

I know many wonderful people in Russia. They write that they feel shame and guilt for the actions if their government in nearby countries and are sorry that they cannot stop what is happening. Some of them had to leave the country and found refuge in Ukraine. Now they will have to flee further west. And there are other Russians who I don't want to discuss at the moment. I'm afraid they won't change their opinion even after they and they relatives and neighbours receive coffins with the bodies of their sons who died for nothing.

And I really think that every Russian citizen carries responsibility for what is happening right now regardless of who they vote for. As well as I carry responsibility that Ukraine has Zelenskiy as a President at the moment although personally I don't know anyone who voted for him and I didn't vote for him of course. But Zelenskiy is an internal problem of Ukraine while Putin is a problem for the whole Europe.
Reply With Quote
The following 2 users would like to thank TinyK for this useful post:
This user groans at TinyK for this post:
  #2547  
Old 24.02.2022, 10:53
Forum Legend
 
Join Date: Mar 2009
Location: Zurich
Posts: 14,194
Groaned at 1,440 Times in 953 Posts
Thanked 21,498 Times in 8,207 Posts
Chuff has a reputation beyond reputeChuff has a reputation beyond reputeChuff has a reputation beyond reputeChuff has a reputation beyond reputeChuff has a reputation beyond reputeChuff has a reputation beyond repute
Re: World War 3 or just a local spat in Ukraine?

I think Russians living in the West need to prepare themselves for a new wave of Anti-Russian sentiment, because this invasion and ongoing media coverage is going to make Russia a dirty word for some time and sadly this will affect all of the good citizens worldwide too.
Reply With Quote
  #2548  
Old 24.02.2022, 10:57
TinyK's Avatar
Forum Veteran
 
Join Date: Apr 2011
Location: Left bank of Lake Zurich
Posts: 1,444
Groaned at 66 Times in 46 Posts
Thanked 1,577 Times in 797 Posts
TinyK has a reputation beyond reputeTinyK has a reputation beyond reputeTinyK has a reputation beyond reputeTinyK has a reputation beyond repute
Re: World War 3 or just a local spat in Ukraine?

Quote:
View Post
Many people live in Russia and want to live in Russia. At least up until now they did.
But not the wives and the kids of the members of the Russian government and Russian businessmen for some reason. They prefer to live elsewhere.
Reply With Quote
The following 4 users would like to thank TinyK for this useful post:
This user groans at TinyK for this post:
  #2549  
Old 24.02.2022, 11:00
Phil_MCR's Avatar
Forum Legend
 
Join Date: Oct 2009
Location: Basel
Posts: 15,587
Groaned at 304 Times in 204 Posts
Thanked 19,871 Times in 8,375 Posts
Phil_MCR has a reputation beyond reputePhil_MCR has a reputation beyond reputePhil_MCR has a reputation beyond reputePhil_MCR has a reputation beyond reputePhil_MCR has a reputation beyond reputePhil_MCR has a reputation beyond repute
Re: World War 3 or just a local spat in Ukraine?

Quote:
View Post
I am still shocked. I thought not even Putin will be that crazy to invade Ukraine. He will lose the Russian people's support, whatever is left of it, maybe not today or tomorrow but Ukraine will be his grave, politically.
Does anyone else here agree with me on this one?
Well, he's been gathering troops on the border for invasion for a while, so it shouldn't be a huge surprise to anybody, esp. since the most vocal opponents have only managed to come up with sanctions as a deterrent.

Maybe he's looking to partition Ukraine into a Russian controlled eastern part and a Ukranian western part?
Reply With Quote
The following 2 users would like to thank Phil_MCR for this useful post:
  #2550  
Old 24.02.2022, 11:01
Forum Veteran
 
Join Date: May 2021
Location: Vaud
Posts: 963
Groaned at 210 Times in 138 Posts
Thanked 1,621 Times in 677 Posts
MattyRedSox has a reputation beyond reputeMattyRedSox has a reputation beyond reputeMattyRedSox has a reputation beyond reputeMattyRedSox has a reputation beyond reputeMattyRedSox has a reputation beyond repute
Re: World War 3 or just a local spat in Ukraine?

Yes. Personally I hold Russian people fairly responsible as theyíve allowed Putin to continue for years. Much how I held most Americans responsible for Trump and Biden, and the British for Johnson. But I also hold Ukrainians responsible for Zelenskyy.
Reply With Quote
The following 2 users would like to thank MattyRedSox for this useful post:
  #2551  
Old 24.02.2022, 11:06
gaburko's Avatar
Forum Veteran
 
Join Date: Oct 2011
Location: BL
Posts: 1,282
Groaned at 235 Times in 170 Posts
Thanked 4,613 Times in 1,745 Posts
gaburko has a reputation beyond reputegaburko has a reputation beyond reputegaburko has a reputation beyond reputegaburko has a reputation beyond reputegaburko has a reputation beyond reputegaburko has a reputation beyond repute
Re: World War 3 or just a local spat in Ukraine?

Quote:
View Post
Yes. Personally I hold Russian people fairly responsible as they’ve allowed Putin to continue for years. Much how I held most Americans responsible for Trump and Biden, and the British for Johnson. But I also hold Ukrainians responsible for Zelenskyy.
You're too hard on the normal Russians. Unlike the US, they never had the chance to participate in a fair election, they never really had a choice. I am vehemently anti-Russian in terms of it's imperial ambitions, but at the same time we should not equate every single Russian to Putin.

It's sad really, as an Eastern-European I am inclined to scream "we told you so and you never listened!" particularly to Germany, which has been cozying up to Putin since forever really. I really hope this crisis is the wake-up call for the "west" and they will finally start containing him properly: economically, militarily and culturally. The Russian establishment speaks only the language of power, nothing else. And since they only have raw power, no economy, no modern culture, nothing else, they over-emphasize strength.
Reply With Quote
The following 6 users would like to thank gaburko for this useful post:
  #2552  
Old 24.02.2022, 11:07
Junior Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2022
Location: Waadtland
Posts: 47
Groaned at 21 Times in 14 Posts
Thanked 116 Times in 72 Posts
Buenzli has earned some respectBuenzli has earned some respect
Re: World War 3 or just a local spat in Ukraine?

Twitter, Photojournalist Alex Lourie
Russia has invaded Ukraine. They bombed a civilian apartment complex in Chuhuiv, near Kharkiv.
Reply With Quote
This user would like to thank Buenzli for this useful post:
  #2553  
Old 24.02.2022, 11:12
Tom1234's Avatar
Forum Legend
 
Join Date: Jan 2007
Location: Kanton Luzern
Posts: 18,437
Groaned at 821 Times in 640 Posts
Thanked 28,607 Times in 11,564 Posts
Tom1234 has a reputation beyond reputeTom1234 has a reputation beyond reputeTom1234 has a reputation beyond reputeTom1234 has a reputation beyond reputeTom1234 has a reputation beyond reputeTom1234 has a reputation beyond repute
Re: World War 3 or just a local spat in Ukraine?

Quote:
View Post
You're too hard on the normal Russians. Unlike the US, they never had the chance to participate in a fair election, they never really had a choice. I am vehemently anti-Russian in terms of it's imperial ambitions, but at the same time we should not equate every single Russian to Putin.
He scores very well in domestic opinion polls, going back many, many years. It's only recently that people are getting a bit fed up with him but it would appear to be that whatever they try and do would now be too little, too late.
Reply With Quote
The following 3 users would like to thank Tom1234 for this useful post:
  #2554  
Old 24.02.2022, 11:14
Aleydis's Avatar
Forum Veteran
 
Join Date: Oct 2007
Location: Zurich
Posts: 1,041
Groaned at 37 Times in 30 Posts
Thanked 949 Times in 493 Posts
Aleydis has a reputation beyond reputeAleydis has a reputation beyond reputeAleydis has a reputation beyond reputeAleydis has a reputation beyond repute
Re: World War 3 or just a local spat in Ukraine?

Quote:
View Post
russian people let the monster grown up. its their responsibility
Sorry, but that's just stupid. Russia has no history of democracy. And the propaganda machine of the regime is unfortunately very efficient as it serves to take people's minds away from the problems at home. How is the US different? Oh yes, let's lump everyone in one pot for electing Trump. 🙄
Reply With Quote
This user would like to thank Aleydis for this useful post:
  #2555  
Old 24.02.2022, 11:17
Forum Veteran
 
Join Date: May 2021
Location: Vaud
Posts: 963
Groaned at 210 Times in 138 Posts
Thanked 1,621 Times in 677 Posts
MattyRedSox has a reputation beyond reputeMattyRedSox has a reputation beyond reputeMattyRedSox has a reputation beyond reputeMattyRedSox has a reputation beyond reputeMattyRedSox has a reputation beyond repute
Re: World War 3 or just a local spat in Ukraine?

Quote:
View Post
You're too hard on the normal Russians. Unlike the US, they never had the chance to participate in a fair election, they never really had a choice. I am vehemently anti-Russian in terms of it's imperial ambitions, but at the same time we should not equate every single Russian to Putin.
I don’t equate them all to Putin, but my personal experience with has led me to believe that most will allow for a strong man like Putin, and don’t protest him much. Yes there are protesters and folks like Navalny, but I also have met too many Russians who mocked Navalny‘s weakness, laughed about Putin pulling a fast one by getting Trump in office, others who are flat out nihilists and don’t care for others, and the those with money, who would never live at home, preferring New York, London, Geneva, and Paris - while treating their hosts with disdain.

Remember, I pretty much hold most people responsible for the government that they’ve got, not just Russians.
__________________
ďone of the good guysĒ

Last edited by MattyRedSox; 24.02.2022 at 11:34.
Reply With Quote
The following 2 users would like to thank MattyRedSox for this useful post:
  #2556  
Old 24.02.2022, 11:19
Forum Legend
 
Join Date: Feb 2010
Location: Kt.Zh
Posts: 12,166
Groaned at 487 Times in 402 Posts
Thanked 19,073 Times in 9,648 Posts
greenmount has a reputation beyond reputegreenmount has a reputation beyond reputegreenmount has a reputation beyond reputegreenmount has a reputation beyond reputegreenmount has a reputation beyond reputegreenmount has a reputation beyond repute
Re: World War 3 or just a local spat in Ukraine?

Quote:
View Post
Remember, I pretty much hold most people responsible for the government that they’ve got, not just Russians.
This is what I always tell folks back home - don't just complain about politicians, you voted for them. "But but...I didn't vote for that". Well, you did have lots of "signals" before any elections.
Reply With Quote
The following 2 users would like to thank greenmount for this useful post:
  #2557  
Old 24.02.2022, 11:20
gaburko's Avatar
Forum Veteran
 
Join Date: Oct 2011
Location: BL
Posts: 1,282
Groaned at 235 Times in 170 Posts
Thanked 4,613 Times in 1,745 Posts
gaburko has a reputation beyond reputegaburko has a reputation beyond reputegaburko has a reputation beyond reputegaburko has a reputation beyond reputegaburko has a reputation beyond reputegaburko has a reputation beyond repute
Re: World War 3 or just a local spat in Ukraine?

Quote:
View Post
He scores very well in domestic opinion polls, going back many, many years. It's only recently that people are getting a bit fed up with him but it would appear to be that whatever they try and do would now be too little, too late.
Sure he scores well. Media is controlled, no opposition to be seen and decades of pumping up nationalistic pride based on strength combined with a constant feeding of a sense of historical injustice. If you happen to be a well-off Moscovite professional with no political or oligarch connections, you tend to read western media, travel and see for yourself. However, the majority of the population is fed up a different diet and they know nothing else.
Reply With Quote
The following 2 users would like to thank gaburko for this useful post:
  #2558  
Old 24.02.2022, 11:24
Aleydis's Avatar
Forum Veteran
 
Join Date: Oct 2007
Location: Zurich
Posts: 1,041
Groaned at 37 Times in 30 Posts
Thanked 949 Times in 493 Posts
Aleydis has a reputation beyond reputeAleydis has a reputation beyond reputeAleydis has a reputation beyond reputeAleydis has a reputation beyond repute
Re: World War 3 or just a local spat in Ukraine?

Quote:
View Post
More of it here
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Popula...e_Soviet_Union

Anyway, let's go get back to this war, what's in the past is better to stay in the past.
I am still shocked. I thought not even Putin will be that crazy to invade Ukraine. He will lose the Russian people's support, whatever is left of it, maybe not today or tomorrow but Ukraine will be his grave, politically.
Does anyone else here agree with me on this one?
I don't. Putin is indeed very popular in Russia.
Reply With Quote
The following 4 users would like to thank Aleydis for this useful post:
  #2559  
Old 24.02.2022, 11:27
Axa's Avatar
Axa Axa is offline
Forum Legend
 
Join Date: Oct 2019
Location: Suhr, Aargau
Posts: 5,579
Groaned at 105 Times in 96 Posts
Thanked 8,182 Times in 3,834 Posts
Axa has a reputation beyond reputeAxa has a reputation beyond reputeAxa has a reputation beyond reputeAxa has a reputation beyond reputeAxa has a reputation beyond reputeAxa has a reputation beyond repute
Re: World War 3 or just a local spat in Ukraine?

Quote:
View Post
I don't. Putin is indeed very popular in Russia.
Commander of armed forces asserts he's very popular among conscripted ground troops
Reply With Quote
  #2560  
Old 24.02.2022, 11:28
Member
 
Join Date: Mar 2021
Location: RŁschlikon
Posts: 101
Groaned at 2 Times in 2 Posts
Thanked 188 Times in 82 Posts
gwsorrells is considered knowledgeablegwsorrells is considered knowledgeablegwsorrells is considered knowledgeable
Re: World War 3 or just a local spat in Ukraine?

Quote:
View Post
More of it here
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Popula...e_Soviet_Union

Anyway, let's go get back to this war, what's in the past is better to stay in the past.
I am still shocked. I thought not even Putin will be that crazy to invade Ukraine. He will lose the Russian people's support, whatever is left of it, maybe not today or tomorrow but Ukraine will be his grave, politically.
Does anyone else here agree with me on this one?
I think he will lose a small portion of the people's support, but I do not think it will matter at all.
Reply With Quote
The following 2 users would like to thank gwsorrells for this useful post:
Reply

Tags
crimea, russia, ukraine




Currently Active Users Viewing This Thread: 1 (0 members and 1 guests)
 
Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off


Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Jewish Refugees in Switzerland during World War II zanskar International affairs/politics 48 16.06.2010 15:58
Book about Switzerland in the second world war [recommendation?] telandy Other/general 14 18.06.2007 20:15


All times are GMT +2. The time now is 23:47.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.4
Copyright ©2000 - 2023, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
LinkBacks Enabled by vBSEO 3.1.0