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  #2541  
Old 24.02.2022, 10:26
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Re: World War 3 or just a local spat in Ukraine?

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Please, have a look at Russia's recent history - They mass-deported millions from the Eastern Europe towards Kazakhstan and Siberia (with millions starved to death), they caused genocidal famines by their disastrous economic policies that are suspected were engineered to achieve their ethnic goals, and they also brutally oppressed their own people. This system of power, secret police, regular police and administration was never held accountable of their crimes and was carried over to the Russian Federation. Putin's coming to power is a good illustration of it - Russian apartment bombings
Given their proven track record, they are more than capable of inflicting death and misery on anyone, their own people included.
More of it here
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Popula...e_Soviet_Union

Anyway, let's go get back to this war, what's in the past is better to stay in the past.
I am still shocked. I thought not even Putin will be that crazy to invade Ukraine. He will lose the Russian people's support, whatever is left of it, maybe not today or tomorrow but Ukraine will be his grave, politically.
Does anyone else here agree with me on this one?
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  #2542  
Old 24.02.2022, 10:35
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Re: World War 3 or just a local spat in Ukraine?

So much speculation - and anyone looking to point a finger and simply explain how this happened is over simplifying, which is typical for folks who can’t see the gray.
It’s Putin’s fault mainly. You can add into it the weak responses from the West, both recently as well as over a decade ago. You can blame Trump’s idolization of Putin and other strong men, as well as the right in the US siding with Russia. You can blame failed responses to North Korea shooting missiles over Japan unchecked. You can blame China’s various unchecked abuses of human rights and aggression towards Taiwan and power plays over Hong Kong. You can blame the fall of Kabul and the US public’s weariness of overseas wars. You can blame the Ukraine’s poverty or how it’s not considered part of Europe or worth the effort by many Western Europeans. You can blame the the racist attitudes of many Ukrainian fans in the hockey and football tournaments that made many who would normally embrace those who stand against aggressors a bit more indifferent to the Ukraine’s plight. You can blame COVID and the mental and physical exhaustion from the pandemic. You can blame the media for a thousand different angles. I’m sure I’ve missed more than a few. It’s all of these factors and then some. It’s not one simple reason.

It’s happened. Most of us kind of knew it would. Now what? I guess that there will be more infighting amongst the west and that folks will grumble about fuel prices and then generally forget about what isn’t impacting them directly. Not enough folks really care - that’s what Putin gambled on and likely was correct.
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  #2543  
Old 24.02.2022, 10:36
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Re: World War 3 or just a local spat in Ukraine?

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Given their proven track record, they are more than capable of inflicting death and misery on anyone, their own people included.
It's absurd really. Nobody wants to live in Russia and yet the Russians insist on imposing their ways on everyone around.
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Old 24.02.2022, 10:38
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Re: World War 3 or just a local spat in Ukraine?

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It's absurd really. Nobody wants to live in Russia and yet the Russians insist on imposing their ways on everyone around.
Many people live in Russia and want to live in Russia. At least up until now they did.
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Old 24.02.2022, 10:42
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Re: World War 3 or just a local spat in Ukraine?

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The strong will always try to conquer the weak.
It depends on what you define as strong. History is littered with David vs Goliath victories. Additionally, the "home advantage" is not to be underrated. However modern military equipment is making it harder for an under-equipped defence.

More relevant is the old saying "if you want peace, you must prepare for war". We must accept that Putin, like Hitler, has simply used diplomacy to buy time, and that Putin can only be stopped with military resistance (or the real threat thereof). Russians need to go home in body bags for this to stop.

Sadly, many, many people will die or suffer before this is over.
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  #2546  
Old 24.02.2022, 10:52
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Re: World War 3 or just a local spat in Ukraine?

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I meant comment from TinyK. I understand though that everyone is emotional at the moment, I am very upset as well.
To us "Russian world/peace" (it's the same word in Russian) it's a phrase that means exactly this what is happening in Ukraine right now. It has nothing to do Russian nation or Russian language (apart from the fact that Russian passports and protection of Russian language are used as a formal occasion for invasion).

I know many wonderful people in Russia. They write that they feel shame and guilt for the actions if their government in nearby countries and are sorry that they cannot stop what is happening. Some of them had to leave the country and found refuge in Ukraine. Now they will have to flee further west. And there are other Russians who I don't want to discuss at the moment. I'm afraid they won't change their opinion even after they and they relatives and neighbours receive coffins with the bodies of their sons who died for nothing.

And I really think that every Russian citizen carries responsibility for what is happening right now regardless of who they vote for. As well as I carry responsibility that Ukraine has Zelenskiy as a President at the moment although personally I don't know anyone who voted for him and I didn't vote for him of course. But Zelenskiy is an internal problem of Ukraine while Putin is a problem for the whole Europe.
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  #2547  
Old 24.02.2022, 10:53
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Re: World War 3 or just a local spat in Ukraine?

I think Russians living in the West need to prepare themselves for a new wave of Anti-Russian sentiment, because this invasion and ongoing media coverage is going to make Russia a dirty word for some time and sadly this will affect all of the good citizens worldwide too.
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Old 24.02.2022, 10:57
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Re: World War 3 or just a local spat in Ukraine?

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Many people live in Russia and want to live in Russia. At least up until now they did.
But not the wives and the kids of the members of the Russian government and Russian businessmen for some reason. They prefer to live elsewhere.
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  #2549  
Old 24.02.2022, 11:00
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Re: World War 3 or just a local spat in Ukraine?

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I am still shocked. I thought not even Putin will be that crazy to invade Ukraine. He will lose the Russian people's support, whatever is left of it, maybe not today or tomorrow but Ukraine will be his grave, politically.
Does anyone else here agree with me on this one?
Well, he's been gathering troops on the border for invasion for a while, so it shouldn't be a huge surprise to anybody, esp. since the most vocal opponents have only managed to come up with sanctions as a deterrent.

Maybe he's looking to partition Ukraine into a Russian controlled eastern part and a Ukranian western part?
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Old 24.02.2022, 11:01
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Re: World War 3 or just a local spat in Ukraine?

Yes. Personally I hold Russian people fairly responsible as they’ve allowed Putin to continue for years. Much how I held most Americans responsible for Trump and Biden, and the British for Johnson. But I also hold Ukrainians responsible for Zelenskyy.
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Old 24.02.2022, 11:06
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Re: World War 3 or just a local spat in Ukraine?

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Yes. Personally I hold Russian people fairly responsible as they’ve allowed Putin to continue for years. Much how I held most Americans responsible for Trump and Biden, and the British for Johnson. But I also hold Ukrainians responsible for Zelenskyy.
You're too hard on the normal Russians. Unlike the US, they never had the chance to participate in a fair election, they never really had a choice. I am vehemently anti-Russian in terms of it's imperial ambitions, but at the same time we should not equate every single Russian to Putin.

It's sad really, as an Eastern-European I am inclined to scream "we told you so and you never listened!" particularly to Germany, which has been cozying up to Putin since forever really. I really hope this crisis is the wake-up call for the "west" and they will finally start containing him properly: economically, militarily and culturally. The Russian establishment speaks only the language of power, nothing else. And since they only have raw power, no economy, no modern culture, nothing else, they over-emphasize strength.
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Old 24.02.2022, 11:07
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Re: World War 3 or just a local spat in Ukraine?

Twitter, Photojournalist Alex Lourie
Russia has invaded Ukraine. They bombed a civilian apartment complex in Chuhuiv, near Kharkiv.
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Old 24.02.2022, 11:12
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Re: World War 3 or just a local spat in Ukraine?

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You're too hard on the normal Russians. Unlike the US, they never had the chance to participate in a fair election, they never really had a choice. I am vehemently anti-Russian in terms of it's imperial ambitions, but at the same time we should not equate every single Russian to Putin.
He scores very well in domestic opinion polls, going back many, many years. It's only recently that people are getting a bit fed up with him but it would appear to be that whatever they try and do would now be too little, too late.
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Old 24.02.2022, 11:14
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Re: World War 3 or just a local spat in Ukraine?

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russian people let the monster grown up. its their responsibility
Sorry, but that's just stupid. Russia has no history of democracy. And the propaganda machine of the regime is unfortunately very efficient as it serves to take people's minds away from the problems at home. How is the US different? Oh yes, let's lump everyone in one pot for electing Trump. 🙄
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Old 24.02.2022, 11:17
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Re: World War 3 or just a local spat in Ukraine?

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You're too hard on the normal Russians. Unlike the US, they never had the chance to participate in a fair election, they never really had a choice. I am vehemently anti-Russian in terms of it's imperial ambitions, but at the same time we should not equate every single Russian to Putin.
I don’t equate them all to Putin, but my personal experience with has led me to believe that most will allow for a strong man like Putin, and don’t protest him much. Yes there are protesters and folks like Navalny, but I also have met too many Russians who mocked Navalny‘s weakness, laughed about Putin pulling a fast one by getting Trump in office, others who are flat out nihilists and don’t care for others, and the those with money, who would never live at home, preferring New York, London, Geneva, and Paris - while treating their hosts with disdain.

Remember, I pretty much hold most people responsible for the government that they’ve got, not just Russians.
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Last edited by MattyRedSox; 24.02.2022 at 11:34.
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Old 24.02.2022, 11:19
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Re: World War 3 or just a local spat in Ukraine?

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Remember, I pretty much hold most people responsible for the government that they’ve got, not just Russians.
This is what I always tell folks back home - don't just complain about politicians, you voted for them. "But but...I didn't vote for that". Well, you did have lots of "signals" before any elections.
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Old 24.02.2022, 11:20
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Re: World War 3 or just a local spat in Ukraine?

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He scores very well in domestic opinion polls, going back many, many years. It's only recently that people are getting a bit fed up with him but it would appear to be that whatever they try and do would now be too little, too late.
Sure he scores well. Media is controlled, no opposition to be seen and decades of pumping up nationalistic pride based on strength combined with a constant feeding of a sense of historical injustice. If you happen to be a well-off Moscovite professional with no political or oligarch connections, you tend to read western media, travel and see for yourself. However, the majority of the population is fed up a different diet and they know nothing else.
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Old 24.02.2022, 11:24
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Re: World War 3 or just a local spat in Ukraine?

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More of it here
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Popula...e_Soviet_Union

Anyway, let's go get back to this war, what's in the past is better to stay in the past.
I am still shocked. I thought not even Putin will be that crazy to invade Ukraine. He will lose the Russian people's support, whatever is left of it, maybe not today or tomorrow but Ukraine will be his grave, politically.
Does anyone else here agree with me on this one?
I don't. Putin is indeed very popular in Russia.
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Old 24.02.2022, 11:27
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Re: World War 3 or just a local spat in Ukraine?

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I don't. Putin is indeed very popular in Russia.
Commander of armed forces asserts he's very popular among conscripted ground troops
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Old 24.02.2022, 11:28
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Re: World War 3 or just a local spat in Ukraine?

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More of it here
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Popula...e_Soviet_Union

Anyway, let's go get back to this war, what's in the past is better to stay in the past.
I am still shocked. I thought not even Putin will be that crazy to invade Ukraine. He will lose the Russian people's support, whatever is left of it, maybe not today or tomorrow but Ukraine will be his grave, politically.
Does anyone else here agree with me on this one?
I think he will lose a small portion of the people's support, but I do not think it will matter at all.
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