World War 3 or just a local spat in Ukraine? - Page 131

NotAllThere · #**2601** 24.02.2022, 16:56

Germany and Italy aren't wanting to harm their economic interests too much. The Eastern European EU members are, unsurprisingly, taking a stronger line. They know what it was like under Russian rule and aren't terribly wanting to encourage that happening again.

gaburko · #**2602** 24.02.2022, 16:56

	Quote:	Buenzli
	They are awoken and tending to their interests. For example when Olaf Scholz visited US just a few weeks ago, the Nord Stream 2 wasn't even on the table for him. https://www.reuters.com/world/biden-...rd-2022-02-07/ If Western Europe were serious about countering Russia, they would have acted weeks if not months ago.

My dream is oil/gas/agriculture export sanctions and SWIFT exclusion. Russia will kneel in 12 months.
More importantly, mild sanction not only will not achieve anything, they will worsen the situation because his calculus would be "look, they aren't even willing to commit to stop me, let me plan my next invasion"

NotAllThere · #**2603** 24.02.2022, 16:57

	Quote:	arz
	Nope. He had no choice after Ukraine did dangerous* things*

Oh look. Another apologist for poor 'ol wouldn't hurt a fly Putin. https://www.englishforum.ch/internat...ml#post2921523

arz · #**2604** 24.02.2022, 17:13

	Quote:	NotAllThere
	Oh look. Another apologist for poor 'ol wouldn't hurt a fly Putin

Wow, I'm more interesting than Putin! ))

Nothing else to object, heh?

bossybaby · #**2605** 24.02.2022, 17:18

Is it me, or does he look like the Boss Baby?

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Castro · #**2606** 24.02.2022, 17:24

Without wishing to sound flipant this photo reminded me of Thomas Friedman's statement that 'No two countries with a McDonald's have ever been at war' aka Golden Arches Theory of Conflict Prevention.

Kiev

Moscow

Seem like that has been disproven again.

bossybaby · #**2607** 24.02.2022, 17:24

Brussels just reached an accord on new sanctions...could we hope that a SWIFT cut-off is in there?

Dandy · #**2608** 24.02.2022, 17:35

6 min agoUkraine's president says Russian forces are attempting to seize control of Chernobyl nuclear power plant

From CNN’s Anastasia Graham-Yooll in London and Gul Tuysuz in Kyiv
Ukrainian President Volodymyr Zelensky tweeted that Russian forces are attempting to seize control of the Chernobyl Nuclear Power Plant.
“Russian occupation forces are trying to seize the Chernobyl [Nuclear Power Plant]. Our defenders are sacrificing their lives so that the tragedy of 1986 will not be repeated,” Zelensky tweeted.

Chuff · #**2609** 24.02.2022, 17:37

	Quote:	Dandy
	6 min agoUkraine's president says Russian forces are attempting to seize control of Chernobyl nuclear power plant From CNN’s Anastasia Graham-Yooll in London and Gul Tuysuz in Kyiv Ukrainian President Volodymyr Zelensky tweeted that Russian forces are attempting to seize control of the Chernobyl Nuclear Power Plant. “Russian occupation forces are trying to seize the Chernobyl [Nuclear Power Plant]. Our defenders are sacrificing their lives so that the tragedy of 1986 will not be repeated,” Zelensky tweeted.

Please just provide a link to an actual article so we don't have to read your bad copy and paste efforts and so we know there is an actual reliable source behind it.

TonyClifton · #**2610** 24.02.2022, 17:40

	Quote:	gaburko
	Europe will never learn! I mean really? SWIFT exclusion is off the table? Oil, gas and grain sanctions coupled with SWIFT exclusion would have turned Russia into a very different country in less than a year. This is so short-sighted, it's truly annoying. What needs to happen for Brussels to wake up? https://www.reuters.com/business/fin...ay-2022-02-24/

I've seen reports of the haggling going on. Germany/Austria want to hold off financial institutions. Italy want to hold off luxury goods, Belgium diamonds. Pathetic if true.

roegner · #**2611** 24.02.2022, 17:42

	Quote:	TonyClifton
	I've seen reports of the haggling going on. Germany/Austria want to hold off financial institutions. Italy want to hold off luxury goods, Belgium diamonds. Pathetic if true.

Why? At least that will make sure his people will hate him. And switching off Russia from SWIFT might help as well.

TonyClifton · #**2612** 24.02.2022, 17:47

	Quote:	roegner
	Why? At least that will make sure his people will hate him. And switching off Russia from SWIFT might help as well.

I think you misunderstand me, I think these things SHOULD be part of any sanctions, especially SWIFT, Russia needs cutting off from the rest of the World. It's the only weapon that we have and it should be used. It worked 30 years ago and it can work again!

	Quote:	komsomolez
	I am no military expert so I don't know that. I would in fact like to hear something about this aspect - from occasionally listening to what guys like Gen Hertling (who is now a regular on CNN) have to say, I would it is not that bad.

This is what I was alluding to last night. German defense has been left almost bare. From a former German Army head in their own words:

Source: https://twitter.com/tom_nuttall/stat...9ua40tDS6rt25A

vladest · #**2613** 24.02.2022, 17:50

	Quote:	arz
	Nope. He had no choice after Ukraine did dangerous* things*

like what?

NotAllThere · #**2614** 24.02.2022, 17:54

	Quote:	Chuff
	Please just provide a link to an actual article so we don't have to read your bad copy and paste efforts and so we know there is an actual reliable source behind it.

https://edition.cnn.com/europe/live-...75ed424f698d4e

NotAllThere · #**2615** 24.02.2022, 17:54

	Quote:	vladest
	like what?

Not kowtowing to Putin.

vladest · #**2616** 24.02.2022, 18:00

	Quote:	NotAllThere
	Not kowtowing to Putin.

yeah, this is serious crime against humanity

MattyRedSox · #**2617** 24.02.2022, 18:01

Well, it sure AF won’t be NATO holding Russia back; Afghanistan 1979, Czechoslovakia 1968, and Hungary 1956 kind of show that. Carter showed some spine in 1979 by cutting of grain, increasing US military spending (it was Carter, not Reagan who bankrupted the USSR), and the complete 1980 Olympic boycott. Of course in 1979, there were no major US politicians (let alone former presidents) nor news agencies (we see you Tucker Carlson and FOX News aka TASS) supporting the USSR’s afghan adventures.
Additionally there are two other issues from the US/NATO side, Trump destroyed the US State department and diplomatic corps (and Biden hasn’t restored it quickly enough), so there’s a bit of a void there, and secondly US news tends to inflate the value of US responses. Unless it’s military or a complete end of all trade/diplomacy, Putin really won’t care.
It really seems up to Europe to get this done.

Dandy · #**2618** 24.02.2022, 18:04

Do you remember this movie

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Iyy9...GtW42B&index=7
The Day After - 1983

MattyRedSox · #**2619** 24.02.2022, 18:05

	Quote:	Dandy
	Do you remember this movie https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Iyy9...GtW42B&index=7 The Day After - 1983

A bit of a different story, no?

gaburko · #**2620** 24.02.2022, 18:07

I was watching again the bizarre video when Putin was questioning his chief of foreign intelligence and couldn't help but wonder if this isn't a weak sign that there might be misalignment at the helm in Kremlin? It can't be that all the top brass are supporting this move. It might be a chance for the world to respond strongly which could only drive further a potential disagreement internally. The Kremlin is notoriously opaque, but the consensus seems to be that Putin is generally surrounded only by a very small number of close advisers and there might be hope that there are factions inside which are opposing this.