 | | | 
24.02.2022, 15:56
|  | Modulo 2 | | Join Date: Oct 2008 Location: Baselland
Posts: 16,199
Groaned at 348 Times in 301 Posts
Thanked 25,607 Times in 10,426 Posts
| | Re: World War 3 or just a local spat in Ukraine?
Germany and Italy aren't wanting to harm their economic interests too much. The Eastern European EU members are, unsurprisingly, taking a stronger line. They know what it was like under Russian rule and aren't terribly wanting to encourage that happening again.
| The following 4 users would like to thank NotAllThere for this useful post: | | 
24.02.2022, 15:56
|  | Forum Veteran | | Join Date: Oct 2011 Location: BL
Posts: 1,282
Groaned at 235 Times in 170 Posts
Thanked 4,613 Times in 1,745 Posts
| | Re: World War 3 or just a local spat in Ukraine? | Quote: | |  | | | They are awoken and tending to their interests.
For example when Olaf Scholz visited US just a few weeks ago, the Nord Stream 2 wasn't even on the table for him. https://www.reuters.com/world/biden-...rd-2022-02-07/
If Western Europe were serious about countering Russia, they would have acted weeks if not months ago. | | | | | My dream is oil/gas/agriculture export sanctions and SWIFT exclusion. Russia will kneel in 12 months.
More importantly, mild sanction not only will not achieve anything, they will worsen the situation because his calculus would be "look, they aren't even willing to commit to stop me, let me plan my next invasion"
| This user would like to thank gaburko for this useful post: | | 
24.02.2022, 15:57
|  | Modulo 2 | | Join Date: Oct 2008 Location: Baselland
Posts: 16,199
Groaned at 348 Times in 301 Posts
Thanked 25,607 Times in 10,426 Posts
| | Re: World War 3 or just a local spat in Ukraine? | Quote: | |  | | | Nope. He had no choice after Ukraine did dangerous things | | | | | Oh look. Another apologist for poor 'ol wouldn't hurt a fly Putin. https://www.englishforum.ch/internat...ml#post2921523 | This user would like to thank NotAllThere for this useful post: | | 
24.02.2022, 16:13
| Member | | Join Date: Sep 2016 Location: Zurich Witikon
Posts: 195
Groaned at 73 Times in 47 Posts
Thanked 190 Times in 129 Posts
| | Re: World War 3 or just a local spat in Ukraine? | Quote: | |  | | | Oh look. Another apologist for poor 'ol wouldn't hurt a fly Putin | | | | |
Wow, I'm more interesting than Putin! ))
Nothing else to object, heh? | This user would like to thank arz for this useful post: | | 
24.02.2022, 16:18
|  | Forum Veteran | | Join Date: Feb 2021 Location: Western Austria
Posts: 1,069
Groaned at 11 Times in 10 Posts
Thanked 1,993 Times in 861 Posts
| | Re: World War 3 or just a local spat in Ukraine?
Is it me, or does he look like the Boss Baby? | 
24.02.2022, 16:24
|  | à la mod | | Join Date: Nov 2007 Location: ZG
Posts: 5,854
Groaned at 129 Times in 105 Posts
Thanked 17,690 Times in 5,613 Posts
| | Re: World War 3 or just a local spat in Ukraine?
Without wishing to sound flipant this photo reminded me of Thomas Friedman's statement that 'No two countries with a McDonald's have ever been at war' aka Golden Arches Theory of Conflict Prevention. 
Kiev 
Moscow
Seem like that has been disproven again.
| 
24.02.2022, 16:24
|  | Forum Veteran | | Join Date: Feb 2021 Location: Western Austria
Posts: 1,069
Groaned at 11 Times in 10 Posts
Thanked 1,993 Times in 861 Posts
| | Re: World War 3 or just a local spat in Ukraine?
Brussels just reached an accord on new sanctions...could we hope that a SWIFT cut-off is in there?
| 
24.02.2022, 16:35
| Senior Member | | Join Date: Feb 2016 Location: Zurich
Posts: 411
Groaned at 83 Times in 37 Posts
Thanked 275 Times in 154 Posts
| | Re: World War 3 or just a local spat in Ukraine?
6 min agoUkraine's president says Russian forces are attempting to seize control of Chernobyl nuclear power plant
From CNNs Anastasia Graham-Yooll in London and Gul Tuysuz in Kyiv
Ukrainian President Volodymyr Zelensky tweeted that Russian forces are attempting to seize control of the Chernobyl Nuclear Power Plant.
Russian occupation forces are trying to seize the Chernobyl [Nuclear Power Plant]. Our defenders are sacrificing their lives so that the tragedy of 1986 will not be repeated, Zelensky tweeted.
| This user groans at Dandy for this post: | | 
24.02.2022, 16:37
| Forum Legend | | Join Date: Mar 2009 Location: Zurich
Posts: 14,194
Groaned at 1,440 Times in 953 Posts
Thanked 21,498 Times in 8,207 Posts
| | Re: World War 3 or just a local spat in Ukraine? | Quote: | |  | | | 6 min agoUkraine's president says Russian forces are attempting to seize control of Chernobyl nuclear power plant
From CNNs Anastasia Graham-Yooll in London and Gul Tuysuz in Kyiv
Ukrainian President Volodymyr Zelensky tweeted that Russian forces are attempting to seize control of the Chernobyl Nuclear Power Plant.
Russian occupation forces are trying to seize the Chernobyl [Nuclear Power Plant]. Our defenders are sacrificing their lives so that the tragedy of 1986 will not be repeated, Zelensky tweeted. | | | | | Please just provide a link to an actual article so we don't have to read your bad copy and paste efforts and so we know there is an actual reliable source behind it.
| This user would like to thank Chuff for this useful post: | | This user groans at Chuff for this post: | | 
24.02.2022, 16:40
|  | Forum Veteran | | Join Date: Sep 2019 Location: Hopefully soon to be Aargau
Posts: 2,210
Groaned at 1,037 Times in 582 Posts
Thanked 5,486 Times in 2,457 Posts
| | Re: World War 3 or just a local spat in Ukraine? | Quote: | |  | | | Europe will never learn! I mean really? SWIFT exclusion is off the table? Oil, gas and grain sanctions coupled with SWIFT exclusion would have turned Russia into a very different country in less than a year. This is so short-sighted, it's truly annoying. What needs to happen for Brussels to wake up? https://www.reuters.com/business/fin...ay-2022-02-24/ | | | | | I've seen reports of the haggling going on. Germany/Austria want to hold off financial institutions. Italy want to hold off luxury goods, Belgium diamonds. Pathetic if true.
| 
24.02.2022, 16:42
|  | Moderately Dutch | | Join Date: May 2011 Location: Zurich
Posts: 12,776
Groaned at 406 Times in 344 Posts
Thanked 17,196 Times in 7,844 Posts
| | Re: World War 3 or just a local spat in Ukraine? | Quote: | |  | | | I've seen reports of the haggling going on. Germany/Austria want to hold off financial institutions. Italy want to hold off luxury goods, Belgium diamonds. Pathetic if true. | | | | | Why? At least that will make sure his people will hate him. And switching off Russia from SWIFT might help as well.
| This user would like to thank roegner for this useful post: | | 
24.02.2022, 16:47
|  | Forum Veteran | | Join Date: Sep 2019 Location: Hopefully soon to be Aargau
Posts: 2,210
Groaned at 1,037 Times in 582 Posts
Thanked 5,486 Times in 2,457 Posts
| | Re: World War 3 or just a local spat in Ukraine? | Quote: | |  | | | Why? At least that will make sure his people will hate him. And switching off Russia from SWIFT might help as well. | | | | | I think you misunderstand me, I think these things SHOULD be part of any sanctions, especially SWIFT, Russia needs cutting off from the rest of the World. It's the only weapon that we have and it should be used. It worked 30 years ago and it can work again! | Quote: | |  | | | I am no military expert so I don't know that. I would in fact like to hear something about this aspect - from occasionally listening to what guys like Gen Hertling (who is now a regular on CNN) have to say, I would it is not that bad. | | | | | This is what I was alluding to last night. German defense has been left almost bare. From a former German Army head in their own words:
Source: https://twitter.com/tom_nuttall/stat...9ua40tDS6rt25A | 
24.02.2022, 16:50
| Forum Veteran | | Join Date: Feb 2020 Location: Zürich
Posts: 800
Groaned at 109 Times in 69 Posts
Thanked 1,108 Times in 550 Posts
| | Re: World War 3 or just a local spat in Ukraine? | Quote: | |  | | | Nope. He had no choice after Ukraine did dangerous things | | | | | like what?
| 
24.02.2022, 16:54
|  | Modulo 2 | | Join Date: Oct 2008 Location: Baselland
Posts: 16,199
Groaned at 348 Times in 301 Posts
Thanked 25,607 Times in 10,426 Posts
| | Re: World War 3 or just a local spat in Ukraine? | Quote: | |  | | | Please just provide a link to an actual article so we don't have to read your bad copy and paste efforts and so we know there is an actual reliable source behind it. | | | | | https://edition.cnn.com/europe/live-...75ed424f698d4e | 
24.02.2022, 16:54
|  | Modulo 2 | | Join Date: Oct 2008 Location: Baselland
Posts: 16,199
Groaned at 348 Times in 301 Posts
Thanked 25,607 Times in 10,426 Posts
| | Re: World War 3 or just a local spat in Ukraine? | Quote: | |  | | | like what? | | | | | Not kowtowing to Putin.
| 
24.02.2022, 17:00
| Forum Veteran | | Join Date: Feb 2020 Location: Zürich
Posts: 800
Groaned at 109 Times in 69 Posts
Thanked 1,108 Times in 550 Posts
| | Re: World War 3 or just a local spat in Ukraine? | Quote: | |  | | | Not kowtowing to Putin. | | | | | yeah, this is serious crime against humanity
| The following 2 users would like to thank vladest for this useful post: | | 
24.02.2022, 17:01
| Forum Veteran | | Join Date: May 2021 Location: Vaud
Posts: 963
Groaned at 210 Times in 138 Posts
Thanked 1,621 Times in 677 Posts
| | Re: World War 3 or just a local spat in Ukraine?
Well, it sure AF won’t be NATO holding Russia back; Afghanistan 1979, Czechoslovakia 1968, and Hungary 1956 kind of show that. Carter showed some spine in 1979 by cutting of grain, increasing US military spending (it was Carter, not Reagan who bankrupted the USSR), and the complete 1980 Olympic boycott. Of course in 1979, there were no major US politicians (let alone former presidents) nor news agencies (we see you Tucker Carlson and FOX News aka TASS) supporting the USSR’s afghan adventures.
Additionally there are two other issues from the US/NATO side, Trump destroyed the US State department and diplomatic corps (and Biden hasn’t restored it quickly enough), so there’s a bit of a void there, and secondly US news tends to inflate the value of US responses. Unless it’s military or a complete end of all trade/diplomacy, Putin really won’t care.
It really seems up to Europe to get this done.
__________________
one of the good guys
| The following 2 users would like to thank MattyRedSox for this useful post: | | 
24.02.2022, 17:04
| Senior Member | | Join Date: Feb 2016 Location: Zurich
Posts: 411
Groaned at 83 Times in 37 Posts
Thanked 275 Times in 154 Posts
| | Re: World War 3 or just a local spat in Ukraine? | 
24.02.2022, 17:05
| Forum Veteran | | Join Date: May 2021 Location: Vaud
Posts: 963
Groaned at 210 Times in 138 Posts
Thanked 1,621 Times in 677 Posts
| | Re: World War 3 or just a local spat in Ukraine? | Quote: | |  | | | | | | | | A bit of a different story, no?
| This user would like to thank MattyRedSox for this useful post: | | 
24.02.2022, 17:07
|  | Forum Veteran | | Join Date: Oct 2011 Location: BL
Posts: 1,282
Groaned at 235 Times in 170 Posts
Thanked 4,613 Times in 1,745 Posts
| | Re: World War 3 or just a local spat in Ukraine?
I was watching again the bizarre video when Putin was questioning his chief of foreign intelligence and couldn't help but wonder if this isn't a weak sign that there might be misalignment at the helm in Kremlin? It can't be that all the top brass are supporting this move. It might be a chance for the world to respond strongly which could only drive further a potential disagreement internally. The Kremlin is notoriously opaque, but the consensus seems to be that Putin is generally surrounded only by a very small number of close advisers and there might be hope that there are factions inside which are opposing this.
| The following 3 users would like to thank gaburko for this useful post: | |
Currently Active Users Viewing This Thread: 1 (0 members and 1 guests) | | Thread Tools | | Display Modes | Linear Mode |
Posting Rules
| You may not post new threads You may not post replies You may not post attachments You may not edit your posts HTML code is Off | | | All times are GMT +2. The time now is 23:55. | |