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24.02.2022, 21:45
| Member | | Join Date: Sep 2016 Location: Zurich Witikon
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| | Re: World War 3 or just a local spat in Ukraine? | Quote: | |  | | | Let's be realistic. No sanctions would be harsh enough to make Russia withdraw at this point. It is not like Putin hadn't expected them. He did and chose to attack regardless. He doesn't care whether the Russian economy tanks. These sanctions will have an impact only in the longer term. | | | | |
I'd say the opposite.
Such sanctions in the past decade had short-term negative impact on Russian economy, turning positive in the long run
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24.02.2022, 21:46
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| | Re: World War 3 or just a local spat in Ukraine? | Quote: | |  | | | Withdrawing was never the objective of sanctions, this would have been only with military campaigns, which were never on the table.
Strong sanctions would have achieved a different set of objectives. 1) further split any opposition internally as the oligarchs would be extremely unhappy if they are unable to access their quickly decreasing wealth
2) really limit Russia's ability to collect billions of USD/EUR from selling grain and energy and then feeding the army. This would also lead to even poorer population which would only increase pressure on Putin.
Both 1 and 2 would have served as a deterrent for future ventures. Right now, Putin's gamble seems to be paying off. He's not getting any serious push-back from the world and there's not much to make him stop and re-think. | | | | | Agree on 1. On 2, maybe and only longer term. They have plenty of internal resources for building up their military.
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24.02.2022, 21:48
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| | Re: World War 3 or just a local spat in Ukraine? Russian official says missile crisis unavoidable without arms curbs https://www.swissinfo.ch/eng/russian...curbs/47297984 | 
24.02.2022, 21:49
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| | Re: World War 3 or just a local spat in Ukraine? | Quote: | |  | | | I'd say the opposite.
Such sanctions in the past decade had short-term negative impact on Russian economy, turning positive in the long run | | | | | It's all Putin's genius. He has it all figured out.
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24.02.2022, 21:49
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| | Re: World War 3 or just a local spat in Ukraine? | Quote: | |  | | | Agree on 1. On 2, maybe and only longer term. They have plenty of internal resources for building up their military. | | | | | Yes, for sure. But as in the classical math problems in Russian elementary schools, if you have a pool which is fed 10l per h on one side and siphoned at 20 l per h on the other, how long will it take to drain the pool?
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24.02.2022, 21:50
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| | Re: World War 3 or just a local spat in Ukraine? | 
24.02.2022, 21:52
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| | Re: World War 3 or just a local spat in Ukraine? | 
24.02.2022, 22:12
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| | Re: World War 3 or just a local spat in Ukraine? | Quote: | |  | | | | | | | | The wet dream of hardliners in east and west, a return to the coldwar status quo, when the world made sense.
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24.02.2022, 22:13
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| | Re: World War 3 or just a local spat in Ukraine? 'Putin waited until the West was weakly led, low on patriotism and manhood, with a media obsessed over domestic trivialities, and politicians with a penchant for waging war on their own citizens. Perfect timing.' https://twitter.com/TheAliceSmith/st...66161144451073 | The following 3 users would like to thank father frost for this useful post: | | 
24.02.2022, 22:14
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| | Re: World War 3 or just a local spat in Ukraine?
This is what happens when you let someone go around Europe poisoning their critics and getting away with it. Someone should have taken Putin out years ago!
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24.02.2022, 22:15
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| | Re: World War 3 or just a local spat in Ukraine? | Quote: | |  | | | Ukrainian state turned into nationalist junta - all this against the wishes of their peoples.
Sounds like some people here call this "democracy" | | | | | do you even know what junta means?
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24.02.2022, 22:16
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| | Re: World War 3 or just a local spat in Ukraine? Barack Obama: Russia is a regional power showing weakness over Ukraine https://www.theguardian.com/world/20...raine-weakness | 
24.02.2022, 22:20
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| | Re: World War 3 or just a local spat in Ukraine? | Quote: | |  | | | do you even know what junta means? | | | | | He misread the bullet points sent to him by the Kremlin, don't be too hard on him  Putin called Zelenski and his government "fascists" which is really rich having in mind the it was millions of Ukrainians that were sent as first line defense by Stalin against the Nazis
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24.02.2022, 22:22
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| | Re: World War 3 or just a local spat in Ukraine? | Quote: | |  | | | | | | | |
... what an idiot president
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24.02.2022, 22:25
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| | Re: World War 3 or just a local spat in Ukraine? | Quote: | |  | | | Let's be realistic. No sanctions would be harsh enough to make Russia withdraw at this point. It is not like Putin hadn't expected them. He did and chose to attack regardless. He doesn't care whether the Russian economy tanks. These sanctions will have an impact only in the longer term. | | | | | Of course, that much is clear. Sanctions could lead to regime change longer term though. It worked once after all.
Ultimately it's the only tool in the box to support Ukraine, for that reason alone we should use sanctions to maximum effect.
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24.02.2022, 22:26
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| | Re: World War 3 or just a local spat in Ukraine?
Ru assault forces near Hostomel destroyed. Meaning ru failed seizing Kyiv today
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24.02.2022, 22:26
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| | Re: World War 3 or just a local spat in Ukraine? | Quote: | |  | | | | | | | | What a load of bollocks, Putin isn´t showing weakness, he has made Ukraine his bitch, stopped Nato expansion, has the EU by the short black and curlys, is set to change the map of Europe, both politically and by the colours on the 1:2500´s. Has been almost assured that the Americans won´t give a damn and will come out of this riding a bear without a shirt on.
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24.02.2022, 22:28
|  | Forum Legend | | Join Date: Jul 2009 Location: Lummerland
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| | Re: World War 3 or just a local spat in Ukraine? | Quote: | |  | | | He misread the bullet points sent to him by the Kremlin, don't be too hard on him Putin called Zelenski and his government "fascists" which is really rich having in mind the it was millions of Ukrainians that were sent as first line defense by Stalin against the Nazis | | | | | Sure about that, Ukraines welcomed the Nazis as liberators from the Soviets, at first...!
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24.02.2022, 22:31
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| | Re: World War 3 or just a local spat in Ukraine? | Quote: | |  | | | Sure about that, Ukraines welcomed the Nazis as liberators from the Soviets, at first...! | | | | | I'm not sure who is worse nazis or soviets
but i'm sure putin is worse both of them combined
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24.02.2022, 22:33
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| | Re: World War 3 or just a local spat in Ukraine? | Quote: | |  | | | Ru assault forces near Hostomel destroyed. Meaning ru failed seizing Kyiv today | | | | | I also saw that, but it was unconfirmed. Most reports are about continued fighting for Hostomel.
I think tomorrow would be the critical day when the Russians reach Kiev. In city warfare tanks and planes matter less and the battle will be for each corner and each building. The Ukrainian morale will be higher than the Russian one so I hope that's their plan: to hold them fighting for Kiev long enough to drain the army as Putin can't keep 2/3 of his army abroad indefinitely and he will be at increasing pressure at home to bring this to a close.
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