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25.02.2022, 12:03
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| | Re: World War 3 or just a local spat in Ukraine? | Quote: | |  | | | James Bonds boss the inscrutable 'C' at MI6 on twitter about their intelligence coup over uncovering Putins intensions & invasion plans. British Spy Chief on Twitter today | | | | |
Bond will save us !!! | 
25.02.2022, 12:10
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| | Re: World War 3 or just a local spat in Ukraine?
Russian forces now in Kyiv. | This user would like to thank John William for this useful post: | | 
25.02.2022, 12:10
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| | Re: World War 3 or just a local spat in Ukraine? | Quote: | |  | | | Oh yes, IT IS outrageous. I don't think they will atack Nato, but of course you never know. He is a crazy man. | | | | | He's only as crazy as allowed to be. Europe and lets be specific, Italy and Germany, allowed him to be crazy in the future too.
Btw, there was an interesting development yesterday which was of course clouded in the bigger events. The UK intentionally leaked it's sanctions and they did include SWIFT exclusion in an apparent attempt to further press the EU to get there, but ultimately a few spineless "leaders" prioritized petty short-term comfort rather than wider safety and justice.
Last edited by gaburko; 25.02.2022 at 12:21.
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25.02.2022, 12:18
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| | Re: World War 3 or just a local spat in Ukraine? | Quote: | |  | | | He's only as crazy as allowed to be. Europe and lets be specific, Italy and Germany, allowed him to be crazy in the future too. | | | | | "Last resort"? What has to happen?! Tanks are already in Kyiv! If this isn't the point, what is? | The following 3 users would like to thank TonyClifton for this useful post: | | 
25.02.2022, 12:21
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| | Re: World War 3 or just a local spat in Ukraine? | Quote: | |  | | | "Last resort"? What has to happen?! Tanks are already in Kyiv! If this isn't the point, what is?  | | | | | The famous quote from General Patton about him rather having a German army division in front of him than a French one behind springs to mind…
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25.02.2022, 12:26
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| | Re: World War 3 or just a local spat in Ukraine? | Quote: | |  | | | "Last resort"? What has to happen?! Tanks are already in Kyiv! If this isn't the point, what is? | | | | | Indeed. And it's not even last resort. Last resort should be sanctions on energy and ag, SWIFT should have been already in the package.
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25.02.2022, 12:29
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| | Re: World War 3 or just a local spat in Ukraine? | Quote: | |  | | | "Last resort"? What has to happen?! Tanks are already in Kyiv! If this isn't the point, what is?  | | | | | probably their last resort is russian tanks in Paris
but i\m not sure if they would welcome them or not
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25.02.2022, 12:38
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| | Re: World War 3 or just a local spat in Ukraine? | Quote: | |  | | | Indeed. And it's not even last resort. Last resort should be sanctions on energy and ag, SWIFT should have been already in the package. | | | | | Here's the UK's Letters of Last Resort when the chips are down and all else is lost ! Military History - what is the UK's Letters of Last Resort ? | 
25.02.2022, 12:39
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| | Re: World War 3 or just a local spat in Ukraine? | Quote: | |  | | | Western sanctions so tough Russian markets rebound 20%  | | | | | You are trolling, as usual, Moscow stock exchange currently is year to date 37% down, 5 day chart below | 
25.02.2022, 12:41
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| | Re: World War 3 or just a local spat in Ukraine? | Quote: | |  | | | You are trolling, as usual, Moscow stock exchange currently is year to date 37% down, 5 day chart below Attachment 143494 | | | | | The much more important data points are thursday and friday and my read of the performance is huge dip prior to sanctions announcement and rebound after sanctions announcement meaning that the stock market was anticipating tougher sanctions.
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25.02.2022, 12:47
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| | Re: World War 3 or just a local spat in Ukraine? | Quote: | |  | | | Indeed. And it's not even last resort. Last resort should be sanctions on energy and ag, SWIFT should have been already in the package. | | | | | I guess the West if worried that if Russia gets kicked out of SWIFT, it will become the never-ending target of cyber attacks. Leaving Russia in SWIFT keeps it safe.
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25.02.2022, 12:52
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| | Re: World War 3 or just a local spat in Ukraine? | Quote: | |  | | | I guess the West if worried that if Russia gets kicked out of SWIFT, it will become the never-ending target of cyber attacks. Leaving Russia in SWIFT keeps it safe. | | | | | All it would do is increase the cost of any company doing business with Russia.
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25.02.2022, 12:54
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| | Re: World War 3 or just a local spat in Ukraine? | Quote: | |  | | | I guess the West if worried that if Russia gets kicked out of SWIFT, it will become the never-ending target of cyber attacks. Leaving Russia in SWIFT keeps it safe. | | | | | Soooo...we're safe now from Russia?! Ask the Ukrainians how safe they feel right now or any of the Baltic states. As has been pointed by Eastern European leaders for decades: Russia does not speak diplomacy, it speaks only real-politik and cold-blooded calculations. Imposing a cost on this behavior is the only thing that would force a re-think.
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25.02.2022, 12:56
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| | Re: World War 3 or just a local spat in Ukraine? | Quote: | |  | | | | | | | | It beggars belief that twitter banned Trump for misinformation…and yet Putin is a blue ticked verified account operating freely.
Is starting a war and tweeting misinformation about it not a violation of terms of service?
Another reason not to join the twatterati.
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25.02.2022, 12:57
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| | Re: World War 3 or just a local spat in Ukraine? | Quote: | |  | | | All it would do is increase the cost of any company doing business with Russia. | | | | | Seems worth it, really.
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25.02.2022, 13:03
|  | Forum Legend | | Join Date: Feb 2006 Location: Dietikon ZH
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| | Re: World War 3 or just a local spat in Ukraine? | Quote: | |  | | | Soooo...we're safe now from Russia?! Ask the Ukrainians how safe they feel right now or any of the Baltic states. As has been pointed by Eastern European leaders for decades: Russia does not speak diplomacy, it speaks only real-politik and cold-blooded calculations. Imposing a cost on this behavior is the only thing that would force a re-think. | | | | | That's not what I am saying. My point is specifically about the SWIFT system, and this is probably the main reason not expel Russia from it at this stage.
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25.02.2022, 13:05
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| | Re: World War 3 or just a local spat in Ukraine? | Quote: | |  | | | That's not what I am saying. My point is specifically about the SWIFT system, and this is probably the main reason not expel Russia from it at this stage. | | | | | The main reason is now official. Many Italian and German banks have high exposure in Russia and they would have been unable to get their money should Russia be excluded from SWIFT.
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25.02.2022, 13:08
|  | Forum Veteran | | Join Date: Sep 2019 Location: Hopefully soon to be Aargau
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| | Re: World War 3 or just a local spat in Ukraine? | Quote: | |  | | | It beggars belief that twitter banned Trump for misinformation…and yet Putin is a blue ticked verified account operating freely.
Is starting a war and tweeting misinformation about it not a violation of terms of service?
Another reason not to join the twatterati. | | | | | Just another example of the self indulgence of the West. Killing ourselves through infighting, wokism, social justice and the green agenda. Sensationalizing small problems (how ridiculous does Partygate look now in the grand scheme of things  ). Pretending Jan 6 was an insurrection, the list goes on and on. Our real enemies look at all this and see weakness. Perhaps this will be the wakeup call we need? I suspect though it's already too late.
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25.02.2022, 13:16
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| | Re: World War 3 or just a local spat in Ukraine?
Here is an interesting perspective, perhaps showing how the Putin (and other populist leaders) are a product of our global times: https://www.abc.net.au/news/2022-02-...tity/100858372 | 
25.02.2022, 13:28
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| | Re: World War 3 or just a local spat in Ukraine? | Quote: | |  | | | | | | | | Sorry, but this is a intellectually weak attempt to explain and even justify Putin.
"The West is meant to be a place beyond identity..." which is fundamentally wrong. Is the French not French or the English not English? Of course we have identities in Europe. More importantly, we have our identities without the need to subjugate others.
"Liberal democracy is staggering under the weight of growing inequality" - another weak argument. Look at the GINI index in Russia and compare it to any Eastern/Central/Western European country. Inequality in Russia is much much deeper than in the Liberal democracies, even in the new ones.
"Putin is a product of our age", no he is not. Putin is a product of 19th and 20th century real-politik and this is EXACTLY the problem. The West wants to play by 21st century rules, but Putin doesn't play that game and the West keeps hoping he'll evolve. Why would he evolve if things are working out for him?
Make no mistake, there is not justification on ANY moral ground of what Putin is doing. Any attempt to justify him on some weak quazi-intellectual masturbation only embolden his trolls and cronies.
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