 | | | 
26.02.2022, 10:38
| Forum Veteran | | Join Date: Feb 2020 Location: Zürich
Posts: 800
Groaned at 109 Times in 69 Posts
Thanked 1,108 Times in 550 Posts
| | Re: World War 3 or just a local spat in Ukraine? | Quote: | |  | | | UA Foreign Secretary Kuleba | | | | | Just another message from Kuleba: Cyprus will not block ban ru from SWIFT
| 
26.02.2022, 10:39
|  | Forum Legend | | Join Date: Jun 2006 Location: Kt. Bern
Posts: 5,791
Groaned at 357 Times in 265 Posts
Thanked 9,607 Times in 4,187 Posts
| | Re: World War 3 or just a local spat in Ukraine? | Quote: | |  | | | Hu? Dont they know they have to do nothing but agree? SWIFT for sure is able to do that with some effort. Yikes
. | | | | | I would not be so sure about that, turning off the actual flow would be easy enough but remember all the systems that are built on top of it, would they survive or generate new problems?
It would not be the first time software was written for the sunny day rather than the rainy day. If our actions actually pulled down our own financial systems at the same time....
Going after crypto currencies might have a more immediate impact. Say a moratorium on the conversion of crypto by banks for six months.
| 
26.02.2022, 10:42
|  | Forum Veteran | | Join Date: Oct 2011 Location: BL
Posts: 1,280
Groaned at 235 Times in 170 Posts
Thanked 4,598 Times in 1,736 Posts
| | Re: World War 3 or just a local spat in Ukraine? | Quote: | |  | | | I would not be so sure about that, turning off the actual flow would be easy enough but remember all the systems that are built on top of it, would they survive or generate new problems? | | | | | Excluding countries from SWIFT has been done in the past in at least 3 occasions with no reported technical difficulties, this is a BS excuse!
| This user would like to thank gaburko for this useful post: | | 
26.02.2022, 10:43
|  | Forum Veteran | | Join Date: Apr 2008 Location: Zürich
Posts: 1,450
Groaned at 187 Times in 134 Posts
Thanked 1,637 Times in 889 Posts
| | Re: World War 3 or just a local spat in Ukraine? | Quote: | |  | | | | | | | |
Questions coming up about if this was actually a Ukranian tank. Reaffirms about the vast propaganda on both sides now
| This user groans at kiwiguy08 for this post: | | 
26.02.2022, 10:44
|  | Forum Veteran | | Join Date: Apr 2008 Location: Zürich
Posts: 1,450
Groaned at 187 Times in 134 Posts
Thanked 1,637 Times in 889 Posts
| | Re: World War 3 or just a local spat in Ukraine? | Quote: | |  | | | Excluding countries from SWIFT has been done in the past in at least 3 occasions with no reported technical difficulties, this is a BS excuse! | | | | |
Sure, is it smart to crash the markets again and give OPEC and co even more power at exactly this point.
| 
26.02.2022, 10:53
| Forum Veteran | | Join Date: Feb 2020 Location: Zürich
Posts: 800
Groaned at 109 Times in 69 Posts
Thanked 1,108 Times in 550 Posts
| | Re: World War 3 or just a local spat in Ukraine? | Quote: | |  | | | Questions coming up about if this was actually a Ukranian tank. Reaffirms about the vast propaganda on both sides now | | | | | UA vehicles has different camouflage colors
but specially for you, yes it was UA tank, who on purpose smashed UA civilians | This user would like to thank vladest for this useful post: | | 
26.02.2022, 10:54
| Senior Member | | Join Date: Feb 2016 Location: Zurich
Posts: 411
Groaned at 83 Times in 37 Posts
Thanked 275 Times in 154 Posts
| | Re: World War 3 or just a local spat in Ukraine? | The following 2 users groan at Dandy for this post: | | 
26.02.2022, 11:02
|  | Forum Legend | | Join Date: Jul 2009 Location: Lummerland
Posts: 5,653
Groaned at 235 Times in 156 Posts
Thanked 10,519 Times in 4,117 Posts
| | Re: World War 3 or just a local spat in Ukraine?
I always thought Putin to be a level headed technocrat in comparison to the cream of the crop western politicians, perhaps one with the compassion of a lizard but a politician able to stop Russia from being steamrolled and ripped to pieces by predatory capitalism for which it has no mechanisms to deal with.
I had thought he would be able to bring Russia out of communism into the 21st century step by step by doing it the Russian way.
Then I saw him ripping some minister a new corn chute and thought "this bugger has lost the plot!"
Thing is even if Russia totally laminates Ukraine, they have already lost in the eyes of the rest of the world and a military win in Ukraine is not set in stone. | Quote: |  | | | In the early hours of 26 February, during the most significant assault by Russian troops on the capital of Kyiv, the United States government urged Zelenskyy to evacuate to a safer location, and said it stood ready to assist him in such an effort. Zelenskyy turned down the offer and opted to remain in Kyiv with its defense forces, saying that that "the fight is here [in Kyiv]; I need ammunition, not a ride" | | | | | Ukraine is a tough nut to crackand I just fear that should they be resupplied by Nato, Russia is going to see that as involvement and will act accordingly, from that point it´s only a short escalation to a full blown war in Europe with all the trimmings.
__________________
Back in Bavaria, god´s own belly button.
| 
26.02.2022, 11:03
|  | Forum Veteran | | Join Date: Oct 2011 Location: BL
Posts: 1,280
Groaned at 235 Times in 170 Posts
Thanked 4,598 Times in 1,736 Posts
| | Re: World War 3 or just a local spat in Ukraine? | Quote: | |  | | | What Did Putin Mean by 'Denazification' of Ukraine
| | | | | Sooo...the Nazis in Ukraine are being led by a Jewish President?! You understand that this is purely for internal Russian consumption as the average Russian jumps immediately when the word "nazi" is used and doesn't think twice? Fighting nazism is used simply to rally support it is not based on facts whatsoever. Zelensky himself is Jewish.
| The following 3 users would like to thank gaburko for this useful post: | | 
26.02.2022, 11:03
| Forum Legend | | Join Date: Feb 2010 Location: Kt.Zh
Posts: 12,127
Groaned at 485 Times in 400 Posts
Thanked 19,001 Times in 9,613 Posts
| | Re: World War 3 or just a local spat in Ukraine? | Quote: | |  | | | Which is probably why Germany is opposed. No more gas supply from Russia as they cannot pay. And the green alternatives they so want are nowhere near supplying the energy they need….. | | | | | Germany has other sources....North Sea, North of Africa...they can do without Ru gas but would have to pay the price.
Poland for instance is buying 70% of its gas from Ru and is still willing to make some sacrifices...
| The following 3 users would like to thank greenmount for this useful post: | | 
26.02.2022, 11:07
| Forum Veteran | | Join Date: Feb 2020 Location: Zürich
Posts: 800
Groaned at 109 Times in 69 Posts
Thanked 1,108 Times in 550 Posts
| | Re: World War 3 or just a local spat in Ukraine? | Quote: | |  | | | Sooo...the Nazis in Ukraine are being led by a Jewish President?! You understand that this is purely for internal Russian consumption as the average Russian jumps immediately when the word "nazi" is used and doesn't think twice? Fighting nazism is used simply to rally support it is not based on facts whatsoever. Zelensky himself is Jewish. | | | | | ru propaganda never was logically consistent.
| 
26.02.2022, 11:29
| Forum Legend | | Join Date: Jul 2020 Location: Up there over the fog
Posts: 4,757
Groaned at 705 Times in 477 Posts
Thanked 4,708 Times in 2,488 Posts
| | Re: Ukraine- what can WE do here in CH to help?
What will the Swiss response be to any refugees from Ukraine? 10.000 they say at the moment, which seems a very small number.
Ireland has cancelled the necessity for Visas for anyone fleeing Ukraine. The UK has done exactly the opposite, and has cancelled any possibility for Ukrainians to seek refuge in the UK. Despicable.
| This user would like to thank JackieH for this useful post: | | The following 2 users groan at JackieH for this post: | | 
26.02.2022, 11:32
| Forum Veteran | | Join Date: May 2021 Location: Vaud
Posts: 963
Groaned at 210 Times in 138 Posts
Thanked 1,621 Times in 677 Posts
| | Re: Ukraine- what can WE do here in CH to help?
We can also encourage our own elected officials at home to enact the strictest sorts of non military measures against Russia, such as blocking them from SWIFT, expelling diplomats, refusing entry of any Russian citizens, freezing Russian assets, and so on. Personally, I don't disagree with the suggestion of "making life uncomfortable for Russian elites," as they are the ones with the most opportunity and power to get rid of Putin. I don't buy into the crap of "sections and boycotts only hurt ordinary citizens" when ordinary Ukrainians are being killed and made homeless.
We can also call out the Russian trolls that we see here, on other forums, or on Facebook, Twitter, and Instagrams (hopefully they will be banned or blocked) and report their disinformation.
We can look into which brands (especially luxury brands) that are still being sold in Russia, and boycott them.
And we can applaud and support the efforts of good nations like my other country, Ireland, to help refugees.
The protests might make us feel better personally and can help us to connect with others, but there are many ways. And of course contributing to the various aid organisations mentioned in previous posts.
__________________
one of the good guys
| 
26.02.2022, 11:37
|  | Forum Legend | | Join Date: May 2008 Location: Kt. Zürich
Posts: 12,363
Groaned at 718 Times in 602 Posts
Thanked 24,035 Times in 12,586 Posts
| | Re: World War 3 or just a local spat in Ukraine? | Quote: | |  | | | | | | | | So the Russians plan to replace Ukraine Govt. that was democratically elected in 2019 due to events in 2014, 5 years before the election? Clear as mud | 
26.02.2022, 11:37
| Forum Veteran | | Join Date: May 2021 Location: Vaud
Posts: 963
Groaned at 210 Times in 138 Posts
Thanked 1,621 Times in 677 Posts
| | Re: Ukraine- what can WE do here in CH to help? | Quote: | |  | | | What will the Swiss response be to any refugees from Ukraine? 10.000 they say at the moment, which seems a very small number.
Ireland has cancelled the necessity for Visas for anyone fleeing Ukraine. The UK has done exactly the opposite, and has cancelled any possibility for Ukrainians to seek refuge in the UK. Despicable. | | | | | Yes, friends from New Zealand and Japan commented that they thought the Irish response might be "fake" until I showed them the RTE link. https://www.rte.ie/news/ireland/2022...aiver-ukraine/ | 
26.02.2022, 11:40
|  | Forum Legend | | Join Date: Oct 2007 Location: Aargau
Posts: 8,876
Groaned at 125 Times in 92 Posts
Thanked 6,613 Times in 3,661 Posts
| | Re: World War 3 or just a local spat in Ukraine? | Quote: | |  | | | Germany has other sources....North Sea, North of Africa...they can do without Ru gas but would have to pay the price.
Poland for instance is buying 70% of its gas from Ru and is still willing to make some sacrifices... | | | | | What other neighboring countries should do? Obviously support the displaced war refugees with shelter and basic means. What they can also do is to boycott any social and sports events like from example below: https://news.sky.com/story/ukraine-i...ussia-12551913
Such kind of protests and ban would be the least what other countries could do to exert the pressure on Russia, at the same time not getting involved in the war directly.
| This user would like to thank jacek for this useful post: | | 
26.02.2022, 12:28
|  | Forum Legend | | Join Date: Oct 2019 Location: Suhr, Aargau
Posts: 5,528
Groaned at 104 Times in 95 Posts
Thanked 8,122 Times in 3,805 Posts
| | Re: Ukraine- what can WE do here in CH to help? | Quote: | |  | | | We can also encourage our own elected officials at home to enact the strictest sorts of non military measures against Russia, such as blocking them from SWIFT, expelling diplomats, refusing entry of any Russian citizens, freezing Russian assets, and so on. Personally, I don't disagree with the suggestion of "making life uncomfortable for Russian elites," as they are the ones with the most opportunity and power to get rid of Putin. | | | | | I don't know much about finance but this week something curious happened in Switzerland.
CS, UBS and Pictet margin called Russian investors after the price of debt collateral (public and private bonds) was regarded as zero. https://www.swissinfo.ch/eng/credit-...-debt/47380846
For a few hours, the idea of millionaires being margin called was endearing until the news of Switzerland's sanctions came up. Well, the only sanction was prohibited from entering into new business relationships. | Quote: |  | | | Financial intermediaries in Switzerland are now prohibited from entering into new business relationships with the 363 newly added individuals and 4 corporate entities. At the same time, financial intermediaries are obliged to immediately report existing business relationships with these individuals, companies and organisations to the State Secretariat for Economic Affairs SECO. | | | | | https://www.seco.admin.ch/seco/en/ho...-id-87356.html
Now, please wear a tinfoil hat since I'm connecting a few dots. What if the margin call a few days earlier was a strategy to help Russian investors funnel cash into Switzerland before any sanction? Adding cash or equities to a margin called investment portfolio is not restricted by the sanction of no new business relationships. If the price of Russian bonds recovers one day, the "margin-called" accounts will have cash and bonds therefore quite convenient for investors being "forced" to deposit cash. Also quite convenient for Swiss bankers in case of any investigation since they "had to" do this after the value of debt collateral collapsed. So, no one planned anything, the "market" forced everyone to act, everyone is innocent.
Paragraph above is conspiracy. What is not conspiracy is that Swiss journalists cannot make questions about this because privacy legal environment. It will be very interesting if the truth comes up later and some local banks helped Putin supporters to protect their money, all while Ukraine is occupied.
Maybe we can look at this. But, I don't know enough about finance to falsify my own conspiracy theory. Anyone can do it?
| 
26.02.2022, 12:39
|  | Forum Veteran | | Join Date: Sep 2019 Location: Hopefully soon to be Aargau
Posts: 2,198
Groaned at 1,035 Times in 580 Posts
Thanked 5,467 Times in 2,445 Posts
| | Re: World War 3 or just a local spat in Ukraine? | Quote: | |  | | | Boris gets ( and justifiably so ) a lot of stick but he’s played a pretty straight bat here.
That the Italians and Hungarians don’t want to block the Russians from SWIFT doesn’t surprise me in the least.
The Germans however should be ashamed of themselves. Disgusting attitude… short term decisions yield long term consequences, they have a once in a generation chance, if not to wipe the slate clean but certainly to massively improve their historical reputation. | | | | | Now confirmed that Italy got a carve out for luxury goods not being part of any sanctions. Just imagine, placing the sale of Prada bags and Gucci shoes to Russian oligarchs over the sovereignty of Ukraine and the lives of her people. It's truly sickening.
Reports that only Germany, Cyprus and Hungary are holding out over Swift now, let's hope it happens soon.
EDIT: Sounds like Hungary not opposing Swift sanctions anymore!
| The following 2 users would like to thank TonyClifton for this useful post: | | This user groans at TonyClifton for this post: | | 
26.02.2022, 12:50
|  | Forum Legend | | Join Date: Jan 2008 Location: SZ
Posts: 4,077
Groaned at 399 Times in 285 Posts
Thanked 8,751 Times in 3,739 Posts
| | Re: World War 3 or just a local spat in Ukraine?
I am concerned that cutting them off SWIFT is going to hurt us more than it will hurt Putin. At least in the short term there will be massive disruptions. And I doubt it will alter what is happening in Ukraine over the next months.
I don't like what I write here, but I think I am realistic.
| The following 2 users would like to thank komsomolez for this useful post: | | 
26.02.2022, 12:53
|  | Forum Veteran | | Join Date: Sep 2019 Location: Hopefully soon to be Aargau
Posts: 2,198
Groaned at 1,035 Times in 580 Posts
Thanked 5,467 Times in 2,445 Posts
| | Re: World War 3 or just a local spat in Ukraine? | Quote: | |  | | | I am concerned that cutting them off SWIFT is going to hurt us more than it will hurt Putin. At least in the short term there will be massive disruptions. And I doubt it will alter what is happening in Ukraine over the next months.
I don't like what I write here, but I think I am realistic. | | | | | This is the realpolitik element, and why Europe has been so slow to react. What amount of harm and cost are voters willing to tolerate for a (not so) far away land?
We have to proceed, it's our duty. This has to be a red line.
|
Currently Active Users Viewing This Thread: 2 (0 members and 2 guests) | | Thread Tools | | Display Modes | Linear Mode |
Posting Rules
| You may not post new threads You may not post replies You may not post attachments You may not edit your posts HTML code is Off | | | All times are GMT +2. The time now is 05:10. | |