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  #2961  
Old 26.02.2022, 10:38
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Re: World War 3 or just a local spat in Ukraine?

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UA Foreign Secretary Kuleba
Just another message from Kuleba: Cyprus will not block ban ru from SWIFT
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  #2962  
Old 26.02.2022, 10:39
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Re: World War 3 or just a local spat in Ukraine?

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Hu? Don‘t they know they have to do nothing but agree? SWIFT for sure is able to do that with some effort. Yikes….
I would not be so sure about that, turning off the actual flow would be easy enough but remember all the systems that are built on top of it, would they survive or generate new problems?

It would not be the first time software was written for the sunny day rather than the rainy day. If our actions actually pulled down our own financial systems at the same time....

Going after crypto currencies might have a more immediate impact. Say a moratorium on the conversion of crypto by banks for six months.
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Old 26.02.2022, 10:42
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Re: World War 3 or just a local spat in Ukraine?

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I would not be so sure about that, turning off the actual flow would be easy enough but remember all the systems that are built on top of it, would they survive or generate new problems?
Excluding countries from SWIFT has been done in the past in at least 3 occasions with no reported technical difficulties, this is a BS excuse!
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Old 26.02.2022, 10:43
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Re: World War 3 or just a local spat in Ukraine?

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Peacekeepers at work.

https://twitter.com/56blackcat/statu...ddRak9Utw&s=19

[Disclaimer: A lot of dodgy clips flying around, so who knows what is real]

Questions coming up about if this was actually a Ukranian tank. Reaffirms about the vast propaganda on both sides now
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Old 26.02.2022, 10:44
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Re: World War 3 or just a local spat in Ukraine?

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Excluding countries from SWIFT has been done in the past in at least 3 occasions with no reported technical difficulties, this is a BS excuse!

Sure, is it smart to crash the markets again and give OPEC and co even more power at exactly this point.
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  #2966  
Old 26.02.2022, 10:53
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Re: World War 3 or just a local spat in Ukraine?

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Questions coming up about if this was actually a Ukranian tank. Reaffirms about the vast propaganda on both sides now
UA vehicles has different camouflage colors
but specially for you, yes it was UA tank, who on purpose smashed UA civilians
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Old 26.02.2022, 10:54
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Re: World War 3 or just a local spat in Ukraine?

What Did Putin Mean by 'Denazification' of Ukraine

https://sputniknews.com/20220225/wha...093375330.html
2014 Odessa clashes

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2014_Odessa_clashes
Israel reluctantly condemns Russia over Ukraine


https://www.al-monitor.com/originals...a-over-ukraine
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Old 26.02.2022, 11:02
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Re: World War 3 or just a local spat in Ukraine?

I always thought Putin to be a level headed technocrat in comparison to the cream of the crop western politicians, perhaps one with the compassion of a lizard but a politician able to stop Russia from being steamrolled and ripped to pieces by predatory capitalism for which it has no mechanisms to deal with.
I had thought he would be able to bring Russia out of communism into the 21st century step by step by doing it the Russian way.
Then I saw him ripping some minister a new corn chute and thought "this bugger has lost the plot!"

Thing is even if Russia totally laminates Ukraine, they have already lost in the eyes of the rest of the world and a military win in Ukraine is not set in stone.

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In the early hours of 26 February, during the most significant assault by Russian troops on the capital of Kyiv, the United States government urged Zelenskyy to evacuate to a safer location, and said it stood ready to assist him in such an effort. Zelenskyy turned down the offer and opted to remain in Kyiv with its defense forces, saying that that "the fight is here [in Kyiv]; I need ammunition, not a ride"
Ukraine is a tough nut to crackand I just fear that should they be resupplied by Nato, Russia is going to see that as involvement and will act accordingly, from that point it´s only a short escalation to a full blown war in Europe with all the trimmings.
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Old 26.02.2022, 11:03
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Re: World War 3 or just a local spat in Ukraine?

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What Did Putin Mean by 'Denazification' of Ukraine
Sooo...the Nazis in Ukraine are being led by a Jewish President?! You understand that this is purely for internal Russian consumption as the average Russian jumps immediately when the word "nazi" is used and doesn't think twice? Fighting nazism is used simply to rally support it is not based on facts whatsoever. Zelensky himself is Jewish.
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  #2970  
Old 26.02.2022, 11:03
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Re: World War 3 or just a local spat in Ukraine?

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Which is probably why Germany is opposed. No more gas supply from Russia as they cannot pay. And the green alternatives they so want are nowhere near supplying the energy they need…..
Germany has other sources....North Sea, North of Africa...they can do without Ru gas but would have to pay the price.

Poland for instance is buying 70% of its gas from Ru and is still willing to make some sacrifices...
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  #2971  
Old 26.02.2022, 11:07
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Re: World War 3 or just a local spat in Ukraine?

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Sooo...the Nazis in Ukraine are being led by a Jewish President?! You understand that this is purely for internal Russian consumption as the average Russian jumps immediately when the word "nazi" is used and doesn't think twice? Fighting nazism is used simply to rally support it is not based on facts whatsoever. Zelensky himself is Jewish.
ru propaganda never was logically consistent.
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  #2972  
Old 26.02.2022, 11:29
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Re: Ukraine- what can WE do here in CH to help?

What will the Swiss response be to any refugees from Ukraine? 10.000 they say at the moment, which seems a very small number.

Ireland has cancelled the necessity for Visas for anyone fleeing Ukraine. The UK has done exactly the opposite, and has cancelled any possibility for Ukrainians to seek refuge in the UK. Despicable.
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  #2973  
Old 26.02.2022, 11:32
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Re: Ukraine- what can WE do here in CH to help?

We can also encourage our own elected officials at home to enact the strictest sorts of non military measures against Russia, such as blocking them from SWIFT, expelling diplomats, refusing entry of any Russian citizens, freezing Russian assets, and so on. Personally, I don't disagree with the suggestion of "making life uncomfortable for Russian elites," as they are the ones with the most opportunity and power to get rid of Putin. I don't buy into the crap of "sections and boycotts only hurt ordinary citizens" when ordinary Ukrainians are being killed and made homeless.
We can also call out the Russian trolls that we see here, on other forums, or on Facebook, Twitter, and Instagrams (hopefully they will be banned or blocked) and report their disinformation.
We can look into which brands (especially luxury brands) that are still being sold in Russia, and boycott them.
And we can applaud and support the efforts of good nations like my other country, Ireland, to help refugees.
The protests might make us feel better personally and can help us to connect with others, but there are many ways. And of course contributing to the various aid organisations mentioned in previous posts.
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Old 26.02.2022, 11:37
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Re: World War 3 or just a local spat in Ukraine?

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What Did Putin Mean by 'Denazification' of Ukraine

https://sputniknews.com/20220225/wha...093375330.html
2014 Odessa clashes

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2014_Odessa_clashes
Israel reluctantly condemns Russia over Ukraine


https://www.al-monitor.com/originals...a-over-ukraine
So the Russians plan to replace Ukraine Govt. that was democratically elected in 2019 due to events in 2014, 5 years before the election? Clear as mud
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Old 26.02.2022, 11:37
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Re: Ukraine- what can WE do here in CH to help?

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What will the Swiss response be to any refugees from Ukraine? 10.000 they say at the moment, which seems a very small number.

Ireland has cancelled the necessity for Visas for anyone fleeing Ukraine. The UK has done exactly the opposite, and has cancelled any possibility for Ukrainians to seek refuge in the UK. Despicable.
Yes, friends from New Zealand and Japan commented that they thought the Irish response might be "fake" until I showed them the RTE link.
https://www.rte.ie/news/ireland/2022...aiver-ukraine/
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Old 26.02.2022, 11:40
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Re: World War 3 or just a local spat in Ukraine?

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Germany has other sources....North Sea, North of Africa...they can do without Ru gas but would have to pay the price.

Poland for instance is buying 70% of its gas from Ru and is still willing to make some sacrifices...
What other neighboring countries should do? Obviously support the displaced war refugees with shelter and basic means. What they can also do is to boycott any social and sports events like from example below:

https://news.sky.com/story/ukraine-i...ussia-12551913

Such kind of protests and ban would be the least what other countries could do to exert the pressure on Russia, at the same time not getting involved in the war directly.
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  #2977  
Old 26.02.2022, 12:28
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Re: Ukraine- what can WE do here in CH to help?

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We can also encourage our own elected officials at home to enact the strictest sorts of non military measures against Russia, such as blocking them from SWIFT, expelling diplomats, refusing entry of any Russian citizens, freezing Russian assets, and so on. Personally, I don't disagree with the suggestion of "making life uncomfortable for Russian elites," as they are the ones with the most opportunity and power to get rid of Putin.
I don't know much about finance but this week something curious happened in Switzerland.

CS, UBS and Pictet margin called Russian investors after the price of debt collateral (public and private bonds) was regarded as zero. https://www.swissinfo.ch/eng/credit-...-debt/47380846

For a few hours, the idea of millionaires being margin called was endearing until the news of Switzerland's sanctions came up. Well, the only sanction was prohibited from entering into new business relationships.

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Financial intermediaries in Switzerland are now prohibited from entering into new business relationships with the 363 newly added individuals and 4 corporate entities. At the same time, financial intermediaries are obliged to immediately report existing business relationships with these individuals, companies and organisations to the State Secretariat for Economic Affairs SECO.
https://www.seco.admin.ch/seco/en/ho...-id-87356.html

Now, please wear a tinfoil hat since I'm connecting a few dots. What if the margin call a few days earlier was a strategy to help Russian investors funnel cash into Switzerland before any sanction? Adding cash or equities to a margin called investment portfolio is not restricted by the sanction of no new business relationships. If the price of Russian bonds recovers one day, the "margin-called" accounts will have cash and bonds therefore quite convenient for investors being "forced" to deposit cash. Also quite convenient for Swiss bankers in case of any investigation since they "had to" do this after the value of debt collateral collapsed. So, no one planned anything, the "market" forced everyone to act, everyone is innocent.

Paragraph above is conspiracy. What is not conspiracy is that Swiss journalists cannot make questions about this because privacy legal environment. It will be very interesting if the truth comes up later and some local banks helped Putin supporters to protect their money, all while Ukraine is occupied.

Maybe we can look at this. But, I don't know enough about finance to falsify my own conspiracy theory. Anyone can do it?
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Old 26.02.2022, 12:39
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Re: World War 3 or just a local spat in Ukraine?

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Boris gets ( and justifiably so ) a lot of stick but he’s played a pretty straight bat here.
That the Italians and Hungarians don’t want to block the Russians from SWIFT doesn’t surprise me in the least.
The Germans however should be ashamed of themselves. Disgusting attitude… short term decisions yield long term consequences, they have a once in a generation chance, if not to wipe the slate clean but certainly to massively improve their historical reputation.
Now confirmed that Italy got a carve out for luxury goods not being part of any sanctions. Just imagine, placing the sale of Prada bags and Gucci shoes to Russian oligarchs over the sovereignty of Ukraine and the lives of her people. It's truly sickening.

Reports that only Germany, Cyprus and Hungary are holding out over Swift now, let's hope it happens soon.

EDIT: Sounds like Hungary not opposing Swift sanctions anymore!
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Old 26.02.2022, 12:50
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Re: World War 3 or just a local spat in Ukraine?

I am concerned that cutting them off SWIFT is going to hurt us more than it will hurt Putin. At least in the short term there will be massive disruptions. And I doubt it will alter what is happening in Ukraine over the next months.

I don't like what I write here, but I think I am realistic.
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Old 26.02.2022, 12:53
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Re: World War 3 or just a local spat in Ukraine?

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I am concerned that cutting them off SWIFT is going to hurt us more than it will hurt Putin. At least in the short term there will be massive disruptions. And I doubt it will alter what is happening in Ukraine over the next months.

I don't like what I write here, but I think I am realistic.
This is the realpolitik element, and why Europe has been so slow to react. What amount of harm and cost are voters willing to tolerate for a (not so) far away land?

We have to proceed, it's our duty. This has to be a red line.
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