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26.02.2022, 20:28
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| | Re: World War 3 or just a local spat in Ukraine? | Quote: | |  | | | It is unbelievable how bad they have prepared for this. Putin must be furious. | | | | | Agree BUT, it's not over until its really over. It seems like the Russians have been sending mainly the conscript army so far. The professional army seems to be moving in now on Kiev and the armored vehicles are there too. According to a UK General on Sky News he expects the "big" attack to start either tonight or tomorrow. It seems like Putin is pushing Belarus to join as an insurance policy in case this drags on in order to give a chance for the forces from the south and the east to join and basically surround Kiev.
In the end, the morale of the Ukrainians seems to be very high, but the question is how long will it last and how effective Ukrainian citizens conscripted just now with no battle experience stand up to the Russians.
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26.02.2022, 20:32
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| | Re: Ukraine- what can WE do here in CH to help?
This has been corrected and acknowledged on the other thread.
Regarding UK stopped issuing visas to UA: https://twitter.com/katielfrank/stat...-EOpN63BW4u2pg
This is an open discussion, on an open Forum. I shared info I'd seen several times elsewhere - it was corrected. No agenda.
Last edited by JackieH; 26.02.2022 at 20:52.
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26.02.2022, 20:37
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| | Re: World War 3 or just a local spat in Ukraine? | Quote: | |  | | | Agree BUT, it's not over until its really over. It seems like the Russians have been sending mainly the conscript army so far. The professional army seems to be moving in now on Kiev and the armored vehicles are there too. According to a UK General on Sky News he expects the "big" attack to start either tonight or tomorrow. It seems like Putin is pushing Belarus to join as an insurance policy in case this drags on in order to give a chance for the forces from the south and the east to join and basically surround Kiev.
In the end, the morale of the Ukrainians seems to be very high, but the question is how long will it last and how effective Ukrainian citizens conscripted just now with no battle experience stand up to the Russians. | | | | | Oh I agree. Russia will double down, and I wouldn't be surprised if they start shelling Kyiv with artillery.
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26.02.2022, 20:44
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| | Re: World War 3 or just a local spat in Ukraine? | Quote: | |  | | | Molotov's cocktails in action on Kyiv streets | | | | | I cannot watch the video now, but I assume it was taken during Euromaidan in 2014.
BTW, Macron and Lukashenko are having a phone talk for an hour already.
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26.02.2022, 20:52
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| | Re: World War 3 or just a local spat in Ukraine? | Quote: | |  | | | BTW, Macron and Lukashenko are having a phone talk for an hour already. | | | | | This is not about UA, but the elections. Not the Belorussian ones, in case you are in doubt.
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26.02.2022, 20:55
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| | Re: Ukraine- what can WE do here in CH to help? | Quote: | |  | | | Ireland has cancelled the necessity for Visas for anyone fleeing Ukraine. The UK has done exactly the opposite, and has cancelled any possibility for Ukrainians to seek refuge in the UK. Despicable. | | | | | Where did you get your information from, or did you just make it up? A press release on gov.uk two days ago announced visa concessions for Ukrainians already in the UK or travelling there.
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26.02.2022, 20:55
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| | Re: Ukraine- what can WE do here in CH to help? | Quote: | |  | | | Please stop trolling.
The remarks about the UK are totally untrue. | | | | | Current situation r.e. visas from the Shadow Home Secretary. | Quote: |  | | | Yvette Cooper
@YvetteCooperMP
·
3h
Ukraine is under fire. People are fleeing war
Yet Home Office still applies normal visa restrictions inc salaries, language, close relatives
This isnt solidarity w Ukraine, its immoral
Govt must urgently provide simple sanctuary route to UK for Ukrainians who need our help | | | | | https://twitter.com/YvetteCooperMP/s...07741803798531 | The following 2 users would like to thank Blueangel for this useful post: | | 
26.02.2022, 20:56
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| | Re: World War 3 or just a local spat in Ukraine? | Quote: | |  | | | Agree BUT, it's not over until its really over. It seems like the Russians have been sending mainly the conscript army so far. The professional army seems to be moving in now on Kiev and the armored vehicles are there too. According to a UK General on Sky News he expects the "big" attack to start either tonight or tomorrow. It seems like Putin is pushing Belarus to join as an insurance policy in case this drags on in order to give a chance for the forces from the south and the east to join and basically surround Kiev.
In the end, the morale of the Ukrainians seems to be very high, but the question is how long will it last and how effective Ukrainian citizens conscripted just now with no battle experience stand up to the Russians. | | | | | Clearly, the professional army will be much stronger but, presumably, they will be relying on the same supply chain which will be further stressed to support a much larger group.
In such an urban environment as Kiev battle experience is less relevant, it is more about the ability to pop up, take some shots and, hopefully, disappear again.
The characteristics of an average city include tall buildings, narrow alleys, sewage tunnels and possibly a subway system. Defenders may have the advantage of detailed local knowledge of the area, right down to the layout inside of buildings and means of travel not shown on maps.
More important is how well the Russian troops are trained for such urban environment fighting. They failed badly trying to take Grozny, the capital of Chechnya in 1994, but, presumably, have much improved.
Edit: to take a major city you need infantry, heavy armoured vehicles driving by are not much help.
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26.02.2022, 20:58
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| | Re: World War 3 or just a local spat in Ukraine? | Quote: | |  | | | It is unbelievable how bad they have prepared for this. Putin must be furious.
Gen Hertling had some interesting thoughts on this on CNN this morning. Undersized force for the size of the operation, everything way too stretched, poor logistics. Explains also why you see Russian army vehicles running out of gas and Russian supply lines very vulnerable and exposed to UA attacks. | | | | | It’s also shows the soldiers morale who most likely do not share the same sentiment and agenda as their leaders about the whole campaign. They would most likely not attack their fellow countrymen and rather stay home in reserve. Cannot blame them at all. They must follow their orders.
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26.02.2022, 20:58
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| | Re: World War 3 or just a local spat in Ukraine? | Quote: | |  | | | More important is how well the Russian troops are trained for such urban environment fighting. They failed badly trying to take Grozny, the capital of Chechnya in 1994, but, presumably, have much improved. | | | | | You realize though how Grozny looked when they were done with it? Scary.
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26.02.2022, 21:00
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| | Re: Ukraine- what can WE do here in CH to help? | Quote: | |  | | | Where did you get your information from, or did you just make it up? A press release on gov.uk two days ago announced visa concessions for Ukrainians already in the UK or travelling there. | | | | |
It was shared today in many places. The link I posted above was from the other Ukraine thread.
It works there... but not when shared. Not a clue why.
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26.02.2022, 21:02
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| | Re: World War 3 or just a local spat in Ukraine? | Quote: | |  | | | Breaks my heart! Captured Russian soldiers. Not more than 18-19, the age when I was chasing girls and drinking to oblivion. They didn't even know they were going to attack Ukraine. Lets not forget that these conscript Russian boys are victims too, they do not deserve this! Sick sick bastard, I am an atheist, but I hope Putin goes into hell for this! | | | | | Ukraine launched a hotline for the parents of the Russian soldiers. If they lost connection with their son most probably he was sent to Ukraine. Too bad that the mothers who only watch Russian propagandist TV channels won't know about this hotline.
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26.02.2022, 21:02
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| | Re: World War 3 or just a local spat in Ukraine? | Quote: | |  | | | Its also shows the soldiers morale who most likely do not share the same sentiment and agenda as their leaders about the whole campaign. They would most likely not attack their fellow countrymen and rather stay home in reserve. Cannot blame them at all. | | | | | Of course.
I also read somewhere that allegedly the Russian troops expected to be welcomed as liberators, at least in Eastern UA. Not sure this is true, would take a lot of propaganda to believe this. But if true, imagine going into a country expecting flowers and girls' smiles and what you find is Javelins and snipers.
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26.02.2022, 21:04
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| | Re: World War 3 or just a local spat in Ukraine? | Quote: | |  | | | Clearly, the professional army will be much stronger but, presumably, they will be relying on the same supply chain which will be further stressed to support a much larger group.
In such an urban environment as Kiev battle experience is less relevant, it is more about the ability to pop up, take some shots and, hopefully, disappear again.
The characteristics of an average city include tall buildings, narrow alleys, sewage tunnels and possibly a subway system. Defenders may have the advantage of detailed local knowledge of the area, right down to the layout inside of buildings and means of travel not shown on maps.
More important is how well the Russian troops are trained for such urban environment fighting. They failed badly trying to take Grozny, the capital of Chechnya in 1994, but, presumably, have much improved.
Edit: to take a major city you need infantry, heavy armoured vehicles driving by are not much help. | | | | | UA local defense troops getting MLAWs as well
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26.02.2022, 21:05
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| | Re: World War 3 or just a local spat in Ukraine? | Quote: | |  | | | Oh I agree. Russia will double down, and I wouldn't be surprised if they start shelling Kyiv with artillery. | | | | | They have to and they will, this is clear. Part of the reason for the delay is precisely waiting for the artillery and the armored divisions to arrive and satellite images are confirming they are amassing just out of Kiev. The T72 has a 2km range and it will probably be a massive artillery and tank bombardment to "soften" them up and then the ground troops will enter. It's absolutely true that the Russians have suffered badly so far which almost makes certain that their artillery and tank bombardment will be brutal.
Russia was never a strategically or tactically savvy army, they've historically relied on overwhelming the enemy with massive numbers and there's no reason to believe this will be any different, unfortunately.
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26.02.2022, 21:05
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| | Re: World War 3 or just a local spat in Ukraine? | Quote: | |  | | | You realize though how Grozny looked when they were done with it? Scary. | | | | | it was looked like this because of shelling non-stop using aviation and Grads
it will not be like this in case of UA
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26.02.2022, 21:07
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| | Re: World War 3 or just a local spat in Ukraine? | Quote: | |  | | | They have to and they will, this is clear. Part of the reason for the delay is precisely waiting for the artillery and the armored divisions to arrive and satellite images are confirming they are amassing just out of Kiev. The T72 has a 2km range and it will probably be a massive artillery and tank bombardment to "soften" them up and then the ground troops will enter. It's absolutely true that the Russians have suffered badly so far which almost makes certain that their artillery and tank bombardment will be brutal.
Russia was never a strategically or tactically savvy army, they've historically relied on overwhelming the enemy with massive numbers and there's no reason to believe this will be any different, unfortunately. | | | | | yeah but chechens did not have own artillery, MLAWs, Javelins, Bayraktars, Grads, etc etc
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26.02.2022, 21:09
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| | Re: World War 3 or just a local spat in Ukraine? | Quote: | |  | | | yeah but chechens did not have own artillery, MLAWs, Javelins, Bayraktars, Grads, etc etc | | | | | Please please don't get me wrong! I am absolutely rooting for Ukraine and the Ukrainians! I wish they regain their country back and this will also be the end of the botox midget in the kremlin!
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26.02.2022, 21:09
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| | Re: World War 3 or just a local spat in Ukraine? | Quote: | |  | | | You realize though how Grozny looked when they were done with it? Scary. | | | | | Sure, but it took a long time.
The Russians lost more tanks in Grozny than in Berlin in 1945.
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26.02.2022, 21:12
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| | Re: World War 3 or just a local spat in Ukraine? | Quote: | |  | | | yeah but chechens did not have own artillery, MLAWs, Javelins, Bayraktars, Grads, etc etc | | | | | moreover now UA will get information from JSTARS system in realtime, means all ru troops movements will be tracked and troops will be destroyed long before they do significant harm
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